The 100 - Clarke Griffin [Eliza Taylor] #22: "Clarke loves a good pencil..." - Eliza Taylor - Page 5

Jaylina · 05-04-2017, 05:38 AM

Eliza & Jarod = together ???

CanIcallYouKate · 05-04-2017, 05:56 AM

episode thoughts later

Damocles · 05-04-2017, 06:49 AM

Does Aaron still answer questions on Tumblr? I feel like Clarke not having this logical discussion would be a good question to ask him

destroyer of worlds · 05-04-2017, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenni727 (View Post)

But this? THIS is on a different level. And part of why this REALLY bothers me is that it didn't need to come to this. I don't think I will ever be okay with Clarke never using the most logical argument at her disposal for the salvation of Skaikru. And that is that Skaikru is needed to maintain the tech in the bunker! I just cannot deal with this.

This will always be such an aggravating thing for us, unfortunately.

Facts, people. Use facts to your advantage.

I just don't know what to think about Clarke right now, too. Hope that this is not a start to some dodgy "alliance" between her and Jahaha, that would not be cool.

Ellfoy · 05-04-2017, 09:12 AM

Okay I have just watched ep8, 9 and 10 in a row and I must say that when it comes to Clarke : holy s**t !

Ok the last episode (10) : I actually get it. Sure it was cruel and ruthless but she tried all through the season to find a solution and proposing solution to save everyone. She proposed to share the bunker (that her people found) and the grouders decided to organize a Hunger Games instead. Having little faith in Octavia winning, I get it. I'm not saying that what she did was good (it's not) but I understand. I'm a little sad when it comes to her lack of faith in Octavia and ok, she managed to have Bellamy kidnapped but too bad for Kane and Octavia (who was fighting for them) ?
Also I agree with Kenni that not using the argument that the grounders could never make the bunker work because of their lack of technological knowledge is dumb. But at the same time how would the grounders react to this argument ? Roan could be convinced but the others...

However what really upset me with Clarke is her behaviour in ep9. That was really sick : using the grounders faith to her advantage all while crushing it to seize power because she thinks that she knows better than everyone. That is how it felt like. And I totally supported Roan when he knocked her down.

Good thing I like complex and flawed characters because we just witnessed (again) the worst in Clarke.

CanIcallYouKate · 05-04-2017, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karma Police (View Post)

I understand why we didn't see any scenes before because then we wouldn't have been surprised but now I wonder how this decision was made, did Clarke just decide? Did others weigh in, did they debate? Did Abby agree to this? Was she ok with Kane being left to die? She lost a husband to floating, was she willing the lose another one to a similar decision? I just want to know if they have a plan.

I have the exact same questions, Paulina

And I really do hope that they will give us some background, maybe when Bellamy questions her next episode? Find a way to explain this to us writers, so we don't get even more frustrated.

I won't argue about the logic of past events because I don't really think the conclave could have been prevented in a way that grounders would have accepted. What I don't get is why did they have to seal themselves in right away? without even a plan on how to get Octavia and Kane in there? I need to know what happened. Clarke! Did you not think of a way to save Kane at least, if you thought Octavia would not survive?

I don't blame Clarke for making this decision though. Waiting around to see where they chips may fall is not her style

And if Roan had won, who knows if he would have shared? Or TriKru if Fio had won (yeah, never would have happened

).

She did what she thought was a way to ensure the survival of her people since all attempts at saving everyone got pretty much flushed down the toilet. Classic, pragmatic seeing the big picture Clarke. At least imo she's pretty consistent with this move.

destroyer of worlds · 05-04-2017, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaylina (View Post)

]http://fotoforum.fr/photos/2017/05/04.24.jpg

What in the world is going on here? Is this a real picture or manip?

I need more time to pen down my Clarke thoughts but you all brought up a lot of good points.

Karma Police · 05-05-2017, 12:06 AM

It's from Jarod's snap story.

I think they were just trolling, having fun.

CanIcallYouKate · 05-05-2017, 02:08 AM

Jarod is the master troll (in a good way)

Ellfoy · 05-05-2017, 08:34 AM

There is a lot of discussion going around lately about Clarke. The last two episodes were a relief for me, because no matter how someone can disagree with Clarke's actions, I think that it finally showed us what exactly was Clarke's character arc this season.

I am posting this meta that I have found. An edited version with spoiler tags about the 4x11 promo (you're welcome April

) and with the second half removed because it belongs to the Bellarke thread.

Quote:

It’s honestly hard for me to even know where to begin with this cause it seems like the writers are touching so many plots at the same time with 4x11 that I’m a bit overwhelmed.

But we can start with this: what Clarke did (betraying the grounders) is not shocking, and it’s not character retrogression OR stagnation.

Clarke has been that character that ever since season 1 stopped at nothing to make sure her people survived – whatever wide or narrow her spectrum of “her people” were at the time. She tortured Lincoln to save Finn, she let a bomb drop in TonDc, she killed innocents in Mt Weather, she tried to freaking force-chip Luna on season 3….

Spoiler:

Bellamy: "Who we are and who we need to be to survive are very different things."

(1x07 – lol you never thought I’d use this quote against you)

(NOTE BY GO -> Clarke: "The things that we have done to survive. They don't define us." 2x08)

Abby: You knew, and you let this happen?

Clarke: We had no choice.

Abby: So many people. Our people.

(2x12)

Luna: You believe that to defeat an enemy who will stop at nothing, you must stop at nothing. How is that different than blood must have blood?

(3x14)

Octavia: “What do you expect us to do, Clarke, walk into random villages asking for their Nightbloods?”

Clarke “If that’s what it takes.” (3x13)

Monty: You’re the one going too far and using the same old justification “it’s all for my people.”

(4x04)

Those are few examples, forgive me for not remembering everything. But this is to say, this is a pattern happening along the seasons, something that is not getting better- something that is growing, and not something that came out of nowhere on season 4.

Everyone knows Clarke has the “I bear it so they don’t have to” complex, which goes further than Clarke sacrificing herself for others…. It’s about Clarke doing “ugly“things to make sure others can live (2x16). And this was never solved, because she was never faced with a plot where this was officially “a problem”.

That is: until now.

(Funny how they echoed this line this season …) (note : 4x08)

The only way to make characters face their flaws head on is when they become a problem, it’s simple like that.

They won’t just “figure it out on their own” and suddenly show up better people on our screens, that throws away the need of a story in the first place. And this is no news either, we’ve seen this happen with nearly every character on this show: Abby, Kane, (even Jaha), Murphy and Bellamy.

All of them did terrible things, caused by their terrible flaws, and they had to face them. All of them lost themselves. Well, Clarke has been losing herself because of her flaw ever since the beginning in case no one noticed:

1x07 quote again:

Who we are and who we need to be to survive are very different things. [echoing: Abby 4x08 “First, we survive. Then we find our humanity again.” ]

Abby: Please, Clarke. Please tell me this wasn’t you.

(2x12) [echoing Clarke to Bellamy: “This is not who you are” 3x05]

Jaha: Heavy lies the crown. I know the burden of keeping a secret you think is going to destroy your people.

Clarke: (..)You floated my father.

Jaha: And now you understand why. No leader starts out wanting to lie or imprison or execute their people. The decisions you face just whittle you down piece by piece. (4x02)

Monty: Who are you? When did you become this person?

Clarke: I haven’t become anyone.

Monty: The Clarke I know wouldn’t be arresting her friends. (4x04)

Clarke: I tried to be the good guy.

Abby :Maybe there are no good guys. (2x16)

[ echoing: Bellamy:” What do you do when you realize you might not be the good guy?”

Clarke:” Maybe there are no good guys”. 3x11]

Again, just a few examples. But the point is, Clarke’s rationality – her “head”- gets a lot in the way of who she is, because ever since the beginning she’s been learning over and over that to survive, to get people alive, she can and should sacrifice everything. She put herself in the place of a leader, of the savior, at the cost of herself (and, many times, others too).

And, problem is, when Clarke’s mind is set in something, there’s little that can change it. Which turned this into the trainwreck we’re living now. Clarke is on mode “we do what we have to do, what ~I~ have to do to survive” upped up by a ton because this girl is facing the freaking apocalypse now – and others are just as crazy worried as her. And she’s under the influence – and support- of a character that has been sneakily (but clearly) paralleling her all season, Jaha.

Jaha: Heavy lies the crown. I know the burden of keeping a secret you think is going to destroy your people. (…)

(…)

Clarke: So what do I do

Jaha: We make the best decisions that we can with the information that we have

x

I will like to add to this that Clarke's arc this season can be summed up by Jaha's line to her in 4x02 : “decisions you face just whittle you down, piece by piece.”. credit. (I am of the opinion that It would make a good title)

It is crazy the amount of parallels and links between Jaha and Clarke this season. I have also noticed that all through the seasons Clarke tends to pick up lines and way of thinking from the persons she actually fought against, the antagonists of the show. Probably because Clarke can be considered in a way as the heir of the Ark's way of thinking : all sacrifices needed in the name of the greater good (a.k.a to save humanity, I would rather say "to preserve humanity").
For example : "I bear it so they don't have to" was first said by Dante Wallace. And it is interesting that Clarke said it again in 4x08 during the episode when the arkadians were turning all Mount Weather.
I saw a gifset once that showed Clarke repeating a fair amount of lines from previous antagonists. It was quite scary.

On a more hopeful note, the rest of the meta (sorry I know that some people here don't like the word) goes on the theory that Bellamy would be the one to break through Clarke in future episodes, it being foreshadowed as well by Jaha in the first episodes of the season : "She's lucky to have you. You keep her centered". But this is a discussion for the Bellarke thread.

Karma Police · 05-05-2017, 09:13 AM

Thank you for posting this! Really great read.

It's true, everything said in that post + your comments. If we look back on the show, what happened is consistent with the characterization of Clarke through out all season. The most interesting thing to me is that she repeats lines said by antagonists, great observation. But I have a hard time thinking of Clarke as an antagonist. I don't think the show wants us to see her as an antagonist (more a flawed and broken character who thinks she needs to take the weight of the world on her shoulders) but I feel like the show drawing parallels between her and somebody like Jaha is harmful. Jaha didn't float people because circumstances pushed him to, it was used as punishment, used to instil fear in other people. Clarke's decisions, whether we agree with them or not, were made because she got thrown into a situation she didn't want or choose.

Having said that though, there was something off about Clarke in this episode, she didn't seem convinced at the end.

I think all of this is leading to a massive breakdown which I'm looking forward to tbh. Sure it will be heartbreaking to watch but it would be only realistic for her to just let all the emotions, all the feelings of guilt take over. And it would give us emotional Clarke, Eliza's best acting scenes imo.

Ellfoy · 05-05-2017, 09:32 AM

I agree with you Paulina. I am totally on team mental breakdown is coming soon. And i'm really looking forward to it.

As for the parallels with antagonists, I think that there are not there to say that Clarke is becoming a villain but that in the position and mindset that she is in, the fall is easy.
As for Jaha, I don't completely agree with you, he wasn't presented as a ruthless and very bad leader in season 1, more like a misunderstood one. Kane was the one floating people right and left. Jaha was hated by the delinquents because he represented the Ark system as a whole. Then he went cray cray in season 2. No, what makes Jaha really a problem is that he doesn't regret any of the things he's done or feels guilty about it because he did it for the greater good according to him (4x03). This is really disturbing IMO.
I do think that the Jaha/Clarke link is there to remind us of what is at stake, the danger that she is in. Doesn't mean that she reached that level (yet). So far, Clarke has showed many time that she felt guilty about the things she's done which mean that she hasn't lost what made her human at the chore.

Karma Police · 05-05-2017, 09:54 AM

Kane was presented as the ruthless one who floated anyone without hesitation but I think Jaha was the same, or at least used to be. He was shown as understanding in the Pilot and saved Abby but in the message to the delinquents he said they were sent down because they were disposable.

Quote:

No, what makes Jaha really a problem is that he doesn't regret any of the things he's done or feels guilty about it because he did it for the greater good according to him (4x03). This is really disturbing IMO.

Oh yes. He thinks everything is justifiable (also told Bellamy that he shouldn't feel guilty about what he's done) and doesn't regret anything. And that's definitely a huge difference between the two. I hope Clarke will always hold on to her humanity.

destroyer of worlds · 05-05-2017, 10:08 AM

Very interesting observations, guys.

I totally agree about this not being out of character for Clarke even though on the surface, I can see how it can be interpreted that way.

I like the Jaha line you mentioned, Margaux about "decisions whittling you down piece by piece." I feel like I can see that happening with Clarke now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karma Police (View Post)

TI don't think the show wants us to see her as an antagonist (more a flawed and broken character who thinks she needs to take the weight of the world on her shoulders) but I feel like the show drawing parallels between her and somebody like Jaha is harmful. Jaha didn't float people because circumstances pushed him to, it was used as punishment, used to instil fear in other people. Clarke's decisions, whether we agree with them or not, were made because she got thrown into a situation she didn't want or choose.

Having said that though, there was something off about Clarke in this episode, she didn't seem convinced at the end.

I think all of this is leading to a massive breakdown which I'm looking forward to tbh. Sure it will be heartbreaking to watch but it would be only realistic for her to just let all the emotions, all the feelings of guilt take over. And it would give us emotional Clarke, Eliza's best acting scenes imo.

She really didn't, you could see the guilt/uncertainty in her eyes when Bellamy woke up and she knew that he would not be happy with what she just did. Contrast that to Jaha who is basically indifferent about it because as you guys pointed out ... they may have similar ways of leading people/making decisions using a similar mindset (for the greater good etc.) but the difference is that Clarke subconsciously wonders if it's right or wrong even if she goes through with it. Whereas for Jaha, he tends to think that he's right in the decision no matter what because of the perceived outcome.

Agreed, all this is just building up to potentially amazing Clarke scenes in the next episode where she finally has to face her "demons" so-to-speak and I'm hoping that it's done right from a story perspective.

April7739 · 05-05-2017, 04:01 PM

Thanks for putting that together so that I could read it, Margaux. I really do appreciate how considerate you guys are.

I definitely agree that this is not OOC for Clarke. At least not yet. I feel like, oftentimes, people just claim things are OOC when it's a less flattering or less admirable side of their favorite character they're seeing. And to me . . . no, it just doesn't work like that. I don't think Bellamy was OOC in season three. I don't think Clarke is OOC here.


Fan Forum > Archived Television Shows > The 100 > Clarke Griffin [Eliza Taylor] #22: "Clarke loves a good pencil..." - Eliza Taylor