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#106 | |||
Elite Fan
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 26,455
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I don't believe in muting people I do not agree with. And if you consider debating this a waste of time, then I wonder why you seem to have trouble letting things go week after week, season after season. I don't know what exactly you considered "over the top" in my last post since you didn't respond to anything in a substantive way. I never told you "how you should be posting", and I never said there "was no point to anything you're saying". But you seem hurt, which was never my intention, so I'll stop replying to you. ------------------------ I would be ok with a Clarke/Josephine plot line Brooklyn, you're right, if that theory is what is actually going to happen, it puts JR's hints/ comments about Eliza's acting this season in context. For me, it would bring something fresh to a character we've now known for 5 seasons. Depending on how much of Clarke would be "in there", we'd get to see some pretty interesting mental struggle for Clarke. And if she were to be completely "taken over", the show would get to play with the old "do the others realize what is going on with her/ that it's not really her" theme. I for one am excited about that possibility I think the writers have done a great job with some relationships on the show. I'm thinking Abby/ Kane, Octavia/ Lincoln, Harper/ Monty, Emori/ Murphy. To me, they all had meaningful build-up and realistic dynamics (for Marper, I grant you, the hints were subtle but there from season 2). But there are others that were not as convincing to me __________________
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#107 | |||
Fan Forum Hero
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 84,054
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bellarke supremacy. ✫ icon by Mel • lachlan ♚ |
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#108 | |||
Total Fan
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,291
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#109 | |||
Fan Forum Hero
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 94,210
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#110 | |||
Fan Forum Hero
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 90,925
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Are we supposed to assume by now that someone filled Bellamy (and the rest) in on all that happened in the bunker? I have a major headache cause I had a minor incident this week, so I haven't been able read up a lot and join the discussion. But if we're gonna list all the things Octavia did (to Bellamy), can we then also list all the stuff Bellamy did to Octavia throughout the entire show? I LOVE Bellamy. Octavia is my favorite, Bellamy has always, solidly been my #2. And I never thought it would or could happen, but I was so mad at him. Out of all the stuff that he has done throughout the seasons, this is what got me the most. And that is NOT because he's refusing to unconditionally forgive Octavia. Because I wouldn't expect that. It's because not for ONE second, have we seen him to try and place himself in her position. He came down with Spacekru, freed her from the bunker and immediately started judging her. Immediately decided that she was plain wrong in the entire cult situation. TV shows are about "show - don't tell". Show me that Bellamy knows everything. Show me that he at least tries to understand Octavia's pov. Instead, he's been verbally beating her down ever since he came back. And still continues to do so. Well, continued, he already left her behind now Also - obviously it matters which character you love most - but I think it's debatable that Octavia did worse to Bellamy than Bellamy ever did to Octavia, especially on an emotional level. Show me that Abby takes responsibility for her part as well, instead of openly blaming Octavia all the time. Show me that Clarke knows all of this. Let someone bring it back up again. Give me the dang good talk where everyone vents They should've done that before they left Space I think it's ridiculous that the only person at the moment who's at least trying to be forgiving of Octavia is Echo. The one who has basically no relation to her, no personal emotional investment in this. Well, y'all have moved on, but since I wrote this all up, I'm still gonna press submit now __________________
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#111 | |||
Part-Time Fan
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 427
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If you really think Russel is a good guy. then why'd he say Dioysa is like hitler and BIN LADEN, BIN LADEN that's the most evil man besides Hitler he can think off, what about bush?
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#112 | |||
Fan Forum Hero
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 94,210
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Octavia put Bellamy in a fighting pit where he would either die or have to kill her mentor Indra to survive. I cannot think of anything that Bellamy has done that is comparable to that. Sure, he left her behind here, for the good of the rest of the group (and probably for her own good, too, because she might not last long in Sanctum in her current state).
And if we’re going to argue that Bellamy is “verbally beating her down,” then let’s think back to the horrific things she’s said to him in the past. We can trace that back to 3x10, follow a trail of it through season 4, and then especially see it in season 5. And Paula, while I understand and agree with what you’re saying about how Bellamy should still try to understand what Octavia’s been through, (whether that results in forgiveness or not), I want to pose the question again that I put in a previous post: When was a good time for this to happen? I feel like an ass quote tweeting myself, but here it is: Quote:
But I want to make it clear that I am not at all displeased with how they’ve handled Octavia this season thus far. I like this tough love that she’s getting. I like that they haven’t been rushing her redemption so far. I may not like her so much right now, but I continue to like the way they’re developing this storyline. And the fact that it’s a storyline that allows Bellamy to continue standing up for himself and establish boundaries with her is even better to me. Because I feel like we’re getting good things for both characters involved, because both characters are getting something they need from this. Also, I’d like to pose this question: If we’re going to say that characters are not trying hard enough to understand Octavia’s actions, shouldn’t we extend that same sympathy to Clarke? Have Murphy and Raven tried to understand her? |
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#113 | |||
Fan Forum Hero
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 84,054
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bellarke supremacy. ✫ icon by Mel • lachlan ♚ |
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#114 | |||
Fan Forum Legend
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No one is ever really trying to understand someone's actions and reasons on this show. There's not time with the plot they need to burn through.
Octavia's definitely not having a rushed redemption. I have another show where they redeemed someone within one episode! Echo's been okay so far this season with everything which makes me happy. I don't enjoy hating her. __________________
Kind heart, fierce mind, and a brave spirit |
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#115 | |||
Addicted Fan
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,787
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Besides, who is arguing that Russell is a good guy? I have seen nobody posting anything to that effect. __________________
"I want to be the example of what you can do, not the voice telling you who you can blame for your pain." ~ Dr. Ben Carson
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#116 | |||
Fan Forum Hero
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 90,925
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Okay, I engaged, I know But I'm not at all trying to make a list of who did worse to whom here though.
I'm just saying that if you take one side into consideration, you should take the other side in consideration too. And this is definitely a problem that I have with the writing. Bellamy / the story is written this way. So it's the story that I'll have to accept. But I would've loved to see even a small piece of them sitting around the table, where Clarke explains / retells everything she's heard from Abby. And maybe Jordan adding in what he heard from his parents. But that's not The 100. The 100 is a fast-paced show, we don't get those moments. So since the show didn't actually show this, I am left assuming that Bellamy still doesn't know. And that he has put absolutely no effort into it either. The moment where Miller was saying "thanks for waking me". They could've just thrown one line in there, where Bellamy comments in some other way about Octavia, instead of "It wasn't you, Miller, it was ALL her." But the writers didn't throw a line in there about that. So that concludes me, basing on what I see on screen, that Bellamy doesn't care / consider. He simple doesn't know the full extend of everything that happened (I'm not even talking about the events itself, I'm talking about her mindset, how she felt). And considering the fact that he has zero interest in trying to understand her (this is what the writers are giving me), makes me not happy about this "tough love". If the show wants me to view this as tough love, then the show has to show me that he actually still loves her. Quote:
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#117 | |||
Fan Forum Star
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 240,040
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Just a quick mod note ... to reiterate, people are free to state their opinions at all times, as long as you're not going into bashing territory. We are not all going to agree on things we like/dislike on the show and that's good (variety is the spice of life, and all) but we are all accountable for what we do end up saying, and people might call you out or feel like they want to share their own take on things.
Also, state what you need to state but if the other person clearly isn't going to agree/doesn't want to discuss it further, perhaps consider taking it to PM or moving on another topic. And also, it's not against FF rules but please be careful about how you word politically referenced posts in light of the sensitivities involved. Thanks. Quote:
Abby needs to take several seats (Kane too, whenever he wakes up, that is). It was not all Octavia pulling the strings in the bunker. Pretty much the only person I see REALLY taking responsibility for what they did/didn't do in the bunker? Indra. (barring Adina's schedule, can they wake her up yet? ) As I've said before, I've always found it a lot harder to connect to Octavia so that could very well influence how I view her POV vs. Bellamy's, for sure. Though I have to say, I actually empathize with Octavia a lot more after the Dark Year and seeing her obvious cry for help in episode 2 was also hard to watch. It was clear that she's suffering and she's looking to end it, once and for all. Having said that, I don't feel like she fully believes now that some of her actions were wrong (and that she has to atone for that) and hence is repeating similar behaviour as in the bunker (going about killing people haphazardly even when the others were trying to stop her), and IMO that's really why Bellamy felt like he needed harsh boundaries to keep himself/the others safe and to ultimately save her from herself. And I felt like the show was trying to show that he DOES still care for Octavia by showing his heartbreaking reaction after he closed the ship door on her. Quote:
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You keep experiencing human emotions because of her.
the CEO & demon do do hee ♥ jeong gu won ❥ Sarah | tumblr | little splashes of colour + credit |
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#118 | |||
Fan Forum Hero
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 94,210
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Great post, Sarah. I really agree with what you wrote.
Paula, as always, I like talking to you about this stuff, because even though we don’t always agree, it’s always interesting discussion. Now I totally agree that we need to take both sides into consideration. So if we agree that Bellamy should make more of an effort to understand what happened down there and that it’s important for him to understand Octavia’s mindset, shouldn’t we also consider his mindset after everything she put him through in season 5? Because let’s be honest, it was a lot. Like Sarah said, that 5x05 scene at the end was emotionally manipulative. (I mean, one can argue that Bellamy used Madi’s emotions for Clarke to manipulate her into taking the flame later on the season, so neither of them is perfect.) Bob said last year that Bellamy was actually afraid of Octavia in season 5, and I can see why. And in regards to needing to see that he still loves her, I do agree with Sarah that we can see this when leaving her makes him cry. Also, in 5x13, didn’t he tell her that a part of him would always love her before she went into cryo? Bellamy still cares about Octavia. But his whole world no longer revolves around her. And I’m think that’s healthy for him. You know, it really is the same with Clarke. None of the characters, not even Bellamy, has really tried to understand what she went through during her 6 years alone. Bellamy started to ask her in 5x05 about how she survived alone, but she kind of breezed last it because she wasn’t ready to say more. And then everything got so life and death and plot heavy after that that we once again lost out on time for character moments. |
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#119 | |||
Master Fan
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 14,913
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Have read Selina's review and now I know why the Children of Gabriel need 12 heads:
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- Sonja - "There's no starting over without forgiveness." - Echo |
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#120 | |||
Total Fan
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,291
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Huh. Selina says that she doesn't think this is a rehash of the flame storyline, but it does seem like this season is doing a big remix/mash-up of previous season storylines. We've got season 1 with the cloud of death (which turned out to be bugs this time) and the grounders (CoG) lurking in the woods. And then there's a S2 Mountain Men vibe going on with the people in Sanctum. And now we've got S3 coming back with Becca's transhuman technology. Will the next episode introduce an incoming wave of deadly radiation? Probably not. But they are for sure recycling some concepts here.
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