a little chaos

Am I the only one that totally supports Echo's choice in this episode? Maybe I'm biased here. The only part of it I didn't agree with was her going behind Raven's back, Raven was fuming, but Echo is the type of character that gets things done and I'm glad they're staying true to her and not making her this perfect person in season 5, she's still smart and grafty. You can take the spy out of Azegda, but you can't take Azgeda out of the spy.

And I think Echo is just as a part of the Space group as the rest of them, she's in a relationship with the leader first off, not to mention the fact they were all willing to defect with her. I just think cause this show moves at such a fast pace we don't have the time to go into deep detail about every single relationship, you get little sublte moments here and there. Plus this show isn't very consistent when it comes to friendships, when was the last time we got any decent content between Octavia/Raven/Clarke for example?

I know that people are always gonna have a harsher opinion of Echo's actions in this season because of what she did in all the seasons leading up to this one, but I think she's been written brilliantly so far, which is more than I can say for others, I mean in this episode alone.

Octavia - Threatens Indra, acted cavalier about disturbing human experimentation, called Raven, Abby and Kane "acceptable losses", wants to wipe out hundreds of people with a deadly virus, dragged a child into a war Clarke clearly doesn't want her to be a part of.

people: There is still hope for Octavia.

Echo - Went behind a friends back to screw over a guy she'd known for 5 minutes to save her friends.

people: Echo is a monster, she can't be redeemed after this.

Just makes no sense to me.

Taryn74

I do. As much as I like Shaw (even if he's not "perfect" which I never expected him to be anyway) I think that out of all the core characters, Echo's probably the one who is best able to see the bigger picture and acts accordingly. The others are just too focused on either keeping their loved ones safe at all costs, which may be an admirable trait in theory, but in practice - especially during wartime - sometimes causes more problems than it prevents; or on getting back at someone who they feel has wronged them.

a little chaos

Couldn't have put it better myself

Although Echo is now a part of this new group and has been for 6 years now, she was still brought up differently, she was still Azgeda and that'll always make her wired differently to the others and I'm OK with that.

Fuzzy Dunlop

I'm totally with you on all of this. Like I know that Raven has a soft spot for Shaw, but Echo has never met him and the guy is working for their enemy. I think Echo is more than justified in being less concerned about protecting Shaw and more worried about making sure spacekru comes out on the right side of this war and are all safe and reunited.

Also as I was reading your post, I thought back to all the different places in this season where they made a point of showing Echo's bond with the rest of spacekru. They showed her sparring with Raven on the Ark, they showed her bantering with Murphy and Monty on Eligius, and they showed that really cute goodbye scene with Monty in Polis. And of course her relationship with Bellamy. So I think it's been pretty well established, as much as these things go on this show. I don't know what people want. Like a whole flashback episode of Echo hanging out with spacekru for 6 years, teaching them to fight and playing Jenga and fixing clogged toilets and stuff? Then everyone would be complaining that they spent too much time on Echo.

April7739

I can understand her choice, Becks. I still just don’t like it. I do think it’s in character, but I’ve never really liked her character. So yeah, I don’t like the decision. I would have rather she and Raven (two smart, capable women) try to figure out another way to get the job done while also keeping their inside man safe. Does that make sense? I find it hard to articulate.

I have to respectfully disagree that she’s been written brilliantly, as I feel that this redemption they’ve written for her is very shallow. However, I will acknowledge that I have a less favorable opinion of Octavia so far this season, which is really saying something. However, I’ve had 4 seasons of actually liking Octavia, even though she has frustrated me at times, so I’m still holding onto a shred of hope for her. But I’ve had two seasons of disliking Echo, so I feel like I don’t really have anything positive to hold onto there. Obviously, as you can see with Indra, I’m open to changing my opinion about characters, but it does happen infrequently for me, and with the way Echo’s storyline has been written so far this season, I just don’t anticipate that I’ll like her much (if any) more at the end of the season.

In terms of Echo being a part of Spacekru, like I said, while I do know that she’s part of them, she . . . oh, how do I want to put this? She had a lot to make up for to really earn her place with them, I feel. So yes, we’ve seen her interact with them, and that’s been fine, but I still—STILL—don’t know what she did to prove herself to them and really earn her way into that family.

destroyer of worlds

Becks, I didn’t like Echo’s actions there but to me, I totally understood why she did it. I think that there’s an important distinction here that you can understand a decision but not support it. The episode probably could have benefited from Echo telling Raven that there’s no time for her to formulate and strategise a plan to get to the control room to plant the device but I think that was implied anyway. Octavia is a woman on a mission so it’s not far fetched to think that Echo knew that they were running out of time and the risks were acceptable for her to go ahead with it. And she got the job done and put herself and likely Raven too, in Diyoza’s good books, so that might actually help in Clarke’s negotiations with Diyoza now.

Having said that though, since this show clearly loves bringing up past mistakes that Bellamy did years ago , they should probably use that time to show us what Echo did to prove herself up on the Ark because I still don’t get it. It was such a peaceful time up there for all of them and I know that Bellamy was trying to defend his girlfriend there ... but pray tell, what was so crucial about her actions up there that he thinks that Octavia can forgive her almost instantaneously?

As for Gaia, I really liked her in this episode but she still unnerves me all the same. It’s clear that she wants to protect Madi and she’s Clarke’s ally in that sense but I felt that the flame scene was meant to show that if Madi ever agreed to it, she’d put the flame in her immediately ... whether or not Clarke consented to it.

April7739

I agree with almost everything you said there, Sarah. In fact, you and I kind of said the same thing about understanding a decision but not supporting it. You just said it better.

I agree with almost everything because you know I didn’t like Gaia in the episode.

destroyer of worlds

I still don’t get why you don’t like Gaia, April but yay for agreeing on the other points.

I do wonder how Diyoza knew so much about Echo ... Kane probably? And I liked that bit of shade that Diyoza threw Kane’s way, about sending the 100 down to the ground. And nice bit of continuity here since it’s probably information gleaned from her convo with Clarke in episode 3.

April7739

You know how sometime you just have a guttural reaction to something that’s hard to explain? That’s what I’ve always had towards Gaia, a guttural negative reaction. Plus . . . well, I don’t want to say too much about the actress, because I know the thread rules. But I just don’t find her to be the most convincing actress, let’s put it that way.

a little chaos

Yeah, I get what you mean by understanding a characters decision, but not liking it. I’ve had many an experience on a show when I’ve understood a characters motive, but their decision hasn’t set well with me. I think because I’m an Echo fan I’ll always have a softer opinion of the choices she makes from here on. I just didn’t think it was that big a deal but I felt she’d get backlash for it. I’m interested to see what Bellamy thinks of her choice, probably given that he doesn’t know Shaw I doubt he’ll be too fazed either, but that could make it awkward for Braven.

Fuzzy Dunlop

I guess everyone is hung up on Bellamy's one line about Echo "proving herself" on the Ring, but I think they actually showed us one of those instances in the S4 finale. When they were all almost entirely out of oxygen and struggling to get the Ring's system running before they all suffocated, Echo was right there with them helping. If I remember correctly, the last thing she did before collapsing was she pulled off Bellamy's helmet so he could breathe.

So basically when he said that she proved herself, I assume it was things like that. The Ring is a broken down old spaceship and they were all near starvation eating Monty's algae the whole time, so I expect that she proved herself by being a team player when things got tough, just like in the S4 finale. Kinda like the opposite of what Murphy was doing in 5x01 where he shut himself off from everybody and made a nuisance of himself. Since Echo was an outsider when they first went up there, she could have done something like what Murphy did, but she didn't. She assimilated herself and became a trusted member of their team.

But showing all of that isn't exactly the kind of thrilling, plot-driven sci-fi that The 100 likes to give us, so I can see why they didn't do a flashback of that. It's more of a fan fiction or head canon territory. Maybe it would have been cool if they had given us a short web series of flashbacks to watch in between seasons kinda like BSG did, but that would have been expensive probably and could have spoiled some plot points.

destroyer of worlds

I think that she’s a decent actress but fair enough, April.

Oh yes, this won’t make people who don’t like Echo already like her even more because it’ll just reinforce the impression they have of her. I’m kind of half and half, I actually like Echo sometimes and I get the decisions that she has been making in this season, but I still dislike the fact that the show seems to be downplaying her past actions (when she was literally written as an antagonist for most of last season) and now expecting people to love her all of a sudden.

Using the points on Bellamy/Murphy and Bellamy/Monty as an example, there was already history there and we saw a Bellamy/Monty friendship way back in season 3 and Bellamy/Murphy begrudgingly starting to be friends or at least civil to each other in season 3 too. They all had a good/not completely negative history with each other, which isn’t the case for Echo.

Having said that, I agree with your point Fuzzy that the season 4 finale example is maybe one scenario where she proved herself. I just feel like it was a throwaway line by Bellamy to his sister and he should have been more specific when trying to convince Octavia that the person who tried to kill her and killed people she cared for ... just isn’t that person anymore. If I were Octavia, I wouldn’t buy it either.

Fuzzy Dunlop

I guess, but it's more because of Octavia and Bellamy's fraught relationship than anything particular about Echo. Like, either Octavia believes in her brother and can trust his judgment (like Indra keeps telling her to) or she can't. And it probably goes back to things as early as S1 when Bellamy was trying to assassinate Jaha and torture Lincoln and everything that happened after that. I don't think there was really anything Bellamy could have said to her at that point to change her mind. Octavia needed to see Echo in action to start to trust her. And I think Echo did well for herself in 5x06 showing Octavia what kind of person she is. Octavia is slowly coming around, but her issues with Bellamy are a lot deeper than this current disagreement about Echo. It seems like there's a bigger reckoning coming between the Blakes.

a little chaos

You know, I hadn’t considered it from this angle, bravo. I’m so ready for this reckoning.

There’s definitely been a lot of built up tension between the Blake’s that’s about to blow. The same with Bellamy and Clarke too. Both relationships can no longer hide how different they’ve become as individuals over the past 6 years. I’m excited to see how it all ties together.

BlueDog9

I agree with Sarah about Gaia. If push came to shove, she'd have no problem putting the Flame into Madi and telling everyone about her blood.

As for Echo, I agree with April and some of what Sarah has said. I disagree about the oxygen moment in 4X13 though. Helping someone to breathe for all of 2 seconds of screen time in what is suppose to be six years ago is a pretty lame reason to trust someone now imo.

Definitely looking forward to the blow-ups with the Blakes and Bellamy/Clarke!