starryeyesxx

I think Joey was always attracted to her (but I think he was always pretty much attracted to everyone ) but I like how we saw them as friends, then roomies, then him developing feelings for her. Personally for me, I don't think Joey was really ready for a relationship before that, especially one that would have put some of the friendships at risk too. But I don't know, maybe if him realizing that he wanted a proper close relationship like Monica & Chandler had wasn't just a one episode thing & had more of an affect on him, it would have worked nicely that way

Bec =)

That is true.

Joey and Rachel being roommates definitely changed the way he looked at her. He saw her as a person and not just a sexy woman, and I think deep down, he had instincts that wanted to protect Rachel during her pregnancy, as seen in the episode where they watch Cujo.

starryeyesxx

I think that with Joey, even though he was friends with Rachel, Monica & Phoebe, I don't think he ever really grasped what it could be like to be really, really close to a woman that you view romantically as well. Living with Rachel was his first glimpse of an actual adult relationship.

Bec =)

Yeah, he was always such a womanizer before Chandler went off to date Monica and got married. He and Phoebe always had a special connection, but he never really understood what it was like to be in love with a woman until Rachel.

I really wish they had matured Joey sooner and made him less reliable on Chandler and not as much of a womanizer. I think he could have realized his feelings for Rachel sooner, and then there could have been a decent storyline.

starryeyesxx

Me too, we saw glimpses of it sometimes, like when he almost had their thing with Kate, but the most progression by far came with Rachel. What was disappointing however was the way he just went back to how he had been before after him & Rachel were done

Bec =)

Yes, it was extremely disappointing how Joey went back to his old ways after the brief relationship with Rachel. You could tell he really fell for her and he loved her, and it was clear he was over his womanizing days thanks to Rachel.

It kind of makes me feel like he never really cared about Rachel to begin with.

starryeyesxx

Even though I am disappointed with how he regressed, I don't feel that way at all. I have absolutely no doubt that he was in love with Rachel at all.

I think that the whole thing with Rachel did take a lot out of him though. In s8, being in love with her clearly wasn't fun for him. Not only did he put himself out there to find out (which I think he pretty much knew anyway) that she didn't feel the same way, but he was also riddled with all this guilt the whole time because she was pregnant with Ross's baby. & then when they did get together, only for it to end so abruptly, I'm sure that shook him a bit too. He'd spent a long time wanting a relationship with her & then just like that it was over. At first, I think it's normal to go back to what they know, & I certainly don't think he would have been in a good place to try and start another relationship at that time. But I do wish that later he had started to change a little more.

I just think that maybe the writers got a little lazy. They just went back to writing him the way that they pretty much always had. But I don't take that to mean that Joey didn't really care about Rachel, he loved her.

omnomnom

Hi, everyone! I was just rewatching some of the series and remembered how much I adore J/R.

So sorry I've been missing your recaps, starryeyesxx! It was great to catch up on them, and you got one of my favorite episodes of them, when they read each other's book! Thank you for making all those wonderful posts

Jumping into the conversation here, I too don't think the writing negates how Joey felt about Rachel. I think the writers were just on the edge of continuing the relationship, but a lot of factors came into play: the end of the series (and a shortened one, at that), negative fan reaction, the spin-off, etc. It was just bad timing. Rewatching Season 7 has kind of made me feel like the writers could have started up J/R that early and made it last. Don't get me wrong, I flove the S8 arc, but I think S10 was a bit probably a bit too late for the writers to do a complete arc with J/R, and that's why it ended so abruptly. I also think there was a noticeable laziness and rushed feeling in S10, so the writing did feel especially inconsistent to me then.

What I really appreciate about their relationship is, above all, that they gradually grew extremely close. Joey realized in S5 that he wanted The Closeness and Rachel needed a friend to help her with the baby - and later, in S9 - and I think they both fulfilled that sort of unspoken want the other had. It was important that Joey felt very deeply for Rachel without jumping into bed with her first. I also think it was important that Rachel had Joey's support and unconditional love. He grew more responsible bc of her, and she allowed herself to be more relaxed around him.

Again, the writing was very hasty in S10 and I think if the show had gotten a full season, the writers might have spent more time on J/R's relationship. But in a way, I prefer J/R ending on a positive, loving note, even if it is platonic. Sometimes I'm annoyed at how they were split up - especially because 'suddenly sexually incompatible' rings really false to me and bc they didn't talk to each other as much in S10 - but other times like now, I prefer the mutual, mature breakup over them having a horrible one. I just headcanon that they end up back together after the series is over

tl;dr Joey/Rachel is awesome and I still love them, as friends and maybe more.

starryeyesxx

Good to see you here again! Gonna have to continue with the recaps so that we can discuss all their moments

I agree with everything you said, for me the reasoning for the break up has always been extremely weak & a lazy way to end their relationship after so much build up - but it's better than them breaking up on a bad note & maybe losing their friendship in the process

I do wish we could have seen more of their friendship in s10 though...

BlackSapphire

I don't think it was a good idea to have put Joey and Rachel together in the first place. It seemed like desperation, like they didn't know what else to write about
It was always supposed to be Rachel and Ross together. I would have been so much happy with Joey and Phoebe together, that would have been the icing on the cake.

starryeyesxx

....do you not realize what thread you're in?

BlackSapphire

Indeed, I do realise the thread I'm in
It's cool that you have a different opinion to mine. I respect your opinion I just don't dig what happened.
I think they were much suited in their cute friendship and nothing more.

omnomnom

I respect your opinion, QueenofHearts, but I would have appreciated it if you'd just kept your comments here, in the Joey/Rachel thread, to "I like them as friends." I don't go into the R/R thread to bash them. Seeing R/R fans constantly bash J/R - even going into J/R spaces to bash them - made me think even less of R/R, and I used to love that pairing.

Once I started shipping J/R though, I haven't looked back!


I would love to see more of your recaps, starryeyesxx! They are amazing and it's a lot of fun going over the episodes, remembering and revisiting J/R moments.

And IA on the S10 breakup. When I first watched it, even as a R/R fan, I thought J/R breaking up was very abrupt and strange, especially since they were so comfortable kissing in previous episodes (and I thought they had chemistry.) I too would have liked to see more J/R friendship moments but we still have the balcony scene and that cute little moment of Rachel and Joey talking over coffee

MiniAnneBoleynx8

Recently rewatched S8 and ahhhhh my heart breaks when Joey tells Rachel how he feels I love J/R so much

S9 really laid the groundwork as to why joey and rachel made perfect sense by the end of the series and I really wish they ended up together

Black mamba

Vicki, I'm sorry but I agree with omnomnom, the post you made is not appropriate for this thread. This a thread to appreaciate the Joey/Rachel relationship whenever as a couple or just friends too but this not the place to compare them to another couple or to say these negatives things about the J/R relationship. It's a place to share the love people have for these two and if you don't like them as a couple fine but it's definitely not the place to post about it, because what you said would be considered as bashing them (btw, the RnR thread wouldn't be the place to talk this way about J/R either just like it wouldn't be nice of people here to bash RnR or Joey/Phoebe for example).

Everyone should be able to enjoy their ship in their thread without comments like that, we never allowed bashing or things like that in the boards. And like I sai, it's totally fine to just like J/R frienship and you can post about how you love that about them here but the others comments are really not necessary and can't be made in here.

So thank you to be careful about that next time.

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Love this hug!