Hawthorn

Ann357

tftnt Fran!

I'm excited for tonights episode!

Hawthorn

Fingers crossed it's a good one! And tomorrow's ratings report is decent.

I just added two sneak peek clips to the OP.

Hamburgo1001

I'm not really worried about the ratings. The promo was bad, but on the other hand, Revolution is the only new thing that is on in it's timeslot tonight.

BTW, how sad is it that a Late Night with Jimmy Fallon best of show gets better ratings than just about 90% of NBC's scripted programming?

Hamburgo1001

Ratings are up this week:

And the half hour numbers:

Hawthorn

Thanks, Alex!

Unfortunately the final numbers went down a tenth:
Wednesday Final Ratings: ‘People’s Choice Awards’ Adjusted Up; ‘Revolution’ & ‘Super Fun Night’ Adjusted Down - Ratings | TVbytheNumbers

Still, it's holding up. Next week will be the real test.


Quick thoughts about the episode:

- Like I said in another thread, please let Bass' speech about rebuilding the Monroe Republic for him and his son just be something he came up with on the spot to appeal to his son's apparent greed for power and money and get him on his side. Because I know Monroe is still desperate for family bonds, and selfish, and obsessive in his own way, but he can't still be that delusional about everything that happened to him not just through the years, but even simply in the past 8 months or so. Please.

- I take back any doubt I expressed about the casting for his son - great choice. He even had his father's mannerisms down to path, their first meeting was a good scene. The actor reminds me of someone else, too, but I can't pin-point who.
It's still a bit hard to picture someone looking like David Lyons with a son that age, but oh well.

- Excited to see Grace popping up again! Third time is the charm - maybe this is our chance to get a proper writing/purpose for her character.

- It felt forced to see Miles asking Rachel to accompany them on he and Bass' quest to find Connor, even if I understand why he wanted someone there with them (plus, she has medical training and his arm was still in bad shape). That speech she gave Bass about his son being doomed because he has bad blood in his veins was cruel, but I understand the rage and frustration she was coming from, completely. I don't believe she even thought all that "nature over nurture" thing, she just wanted to make him hurt.

- I wonder where Gene being shocked by how much of a cold-blooded killer his niece has become will lead. We got something similar last season with her and Miles.

- Are the oranges injected with the drugs that turned Jason into a killing machine? Is that the secret/plan he discovered opening that dispatch in the hotel room?

- Tom and Julia are truly made for each other. And I mean that in a pretty creepy way.

Hamburgo1001

Thanks for the final numbers, Fran.

I could turn out to be wrong, but I think Monroe said those things in a desperate attempt to connect with Connor and get him to leave Mexico with him. I don't think he really believes what he said.

Jamie Dornan, maybe?

I agree with everything you said about the casting of Monroe's son. Even if I wasn't spoiled, I still would have recognized him as Monroe's son as soon as I layed eyes on him.

That was a nice surprise indeed. Fingers crossed the writers are going to do something interesting with her character and they didn't bring her back to kill her off. This show has such a high body count that I can't help help but expect the worst for side characters like her.

Probably. Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way, but I wish the writers would move past the Danny angle and explore some of the other things that Rachel should be angry about (e.g. the years she spent in Miles and Monroe's captivity, the torture, Monroe faking her death, etc.). What about the Miles/Rachel/Monroe militia flashbacks that we were promised? This episode was the perfect opportunity to give us some of that backstory, but instead we got more of the same old stuff. I strongly suspect that the writers refuse to tackle these other issues because it could potentially remind viewers of Miles' darker side (the writers seem to be determined to sweep that under the rug for some reason) and detract from the Miles/Rachel lovestory that they are forcing at every opportunity these days.

Hawthorn

Fingers crossed. As I said, I am more than okay with Monroe keeping his dark side, but I thought him cured from delusions of grandeur.
Now that you say it, there is some JD in him, yes!
But it wasn't the person who I had in mind. Whoever he is.
Did you like the background they've given him? I was both excited and nervous about the introduction of his character, but I must say that it played out better than I expected.
Seriously. And it's not like we have all that many female characters.
I felt like in this episode the Danny mention was warranted, because I can understand how angry Rachel might've felt risking her butt to help Monroe find his long lost son, when she had to give up her chance to live with hers, and only managed to spend a very short time with his adult self, all because of the Monroe Rupublic.
But I agree that in general that are a lot more things they could touch on and they aren't doing it because it means either rewriting Miles' involvement with them, or make the Rachel/Miles romance feel even more wrong.
The fact that she didn't threw Miles out of a window when he asked her to follow them in their quest to Mexico is a sign of how they don't want anything to upset the build up for that relationship.

IloveJules!

Liz speaking spanish. She did great.

Mini-Bass is completely different than how I wanted thought he would be. I imagined him being a blue eyed blonde young man. At least a boy with blue eyes. If I remember correctly, Emma also had blue eyes. The actual son looks much more like Miles than Bass. Oh well, at least his hair is curly.

His personality is different than what I had imagined too. I was thinking mini-Bass would be similar to what Bass was before the blackout/death of his girlfriend and child. A good man. So he would be able to be someone genuinely good for Bass, despite all the issues they would have to face because of Emma, absent father stuff and all the cruelties Bass has committed.

But I liked the funny and ironic way he was introduced and it's very interesting and maybe better that mini-Bass is not exactly a good person anyway. He's a mini general Monroe. So he can be a way for Bass to get over the Monroe Republic for good. Because Bass has never forgotten about it. Before Miles tells him he knows where his son is, Bass was mad at the Patriots for destroying the MR and he wanted revenge. Bass is clearly obsessed with his son, so he could really try to rebuild the MR again to get Connor's respect/approval/affection. Similar to what Bass did for Miles. Or he could take his son out of this "power is everything" idea, based on his very own failure/decline as the leader of a nation. Through his son, Bass could get over his power obsession completely. It will depend on what the writers want to do with Bass.

Connor seems to know how to fight and that's good too. They can bond through fighting.

Didn't like that Miles said being a father is not a thing for Bass. He's not you, Miles. Bass values family. He would never ever dump the love of his life, especially after she says she loves him and would gave up anything to stay with him and he would be a great father, if given a chance.

I agree this would have been the perfect episode to get some militia flashbacks, considering Rachel is travelling alone with her former captors. The son reveal could have happened in the next episode. I also didn't like that Miles wanted Rachel to go with him when she clearly didn't want to go. Very selfish from Miles since the subject (Bass finding his son) is very sensitive for Rachel. Going to this trip would make her think about Danny all the time. It's like Miles doesn't care about her feelings at all. Not to mention his reasoning was very hypocrite. Typical Miles. Most of the characters are hypocrites. Bass was being an hypocrite when he blamed Miles for Emma's death. Miles takes it to an unreachable level though. I understand he wants to get laid it's been a long while he's trying to become a better person and maybe he thinks Rachel makes him a better person, but this whole "people die when we're together" is beyond ridiculous. He should stop blaming Bass for taking him to a dark pit, when we all know it's the contrary. And what happened to the "bad things happen when we're together"? He once said this to Rachel. The common factors here are Miles and bad things. Just saying.

Of course I laughed at Miles wanting Rachel to go to avoid anything crazy from happening. I mean, Rachel, of all the people. Miles underestimates Rachel so much.

He could have used a more convincing and less hypocrite reason for Rachel to go. Like the fact she speaks spanish. Then it wouldn't have been so ridiculous for her to go. It's also very disappointing that she didn't say no. Just because she's "the one" now, it doesn't mean she has to accept everything Miles wants.

At least this trip to Mexico had some nice Rachel/Bass moments and I can't complain about it.

Well, by that logic, Charlie's gonna grow up and end the world. Finally someone had the audacity to say this to Rachel. It had to be Bass, of course.

I don't think Rachel really mean it when she said Connor was destined to be bad because he's Bass' son. Rachel seems to be more in line with free will than (genetic) determinism. Since she's a scientist and an engineer, I don't think she really believes what she was saying. She knows there is Emma too. She knew the old good Bass. She seemed to be enjoying it though. I think she was trying to get to Bass. Which is something she knows very well how to do. Both know exactly how to get to each other. Years of mind games.

What Charlie said to Bass back in episode 4 was much worse. All the "pathetic, sociopath, cold, empty, killer and that's all" stuff. Which is something he deserved to hear from Charlie, really. Anyway, not even Rachel got to this level. She once described him as a monster though. But she also called Miles a monster, so it's more anger and frustration than anything else. Miles too was way more cruel with Bass in the past. And Rachel is the one that suffered the most with Bass, so she can hate on him and hurt him as much as she wants.

The thing with Rachel always hating on Bass is because of what Bass did and more. I believe it's because of Rachel herself too. Rachel blames herself for Danny's death (and everything else). She says it to Charlie after Danny died. She thinks if she took care of Danny, she wouldn't have let him fight and he wouldn't have died. She hates herself too. So she lashes out at Bass because it's easier this way, otherwise she would try to kill herself again. That's my Rachel headcanon and no one is going to convince me of the contrary. I wish the show would explore more of this side of Rachel.

Bass didn't seem hurt by what she said anyway. He gets why she hates him and he thinks he deserves the hate. I think he was much more affected when she said she was helping him find his son after he killed her son. He was left speechless. The whole Danny thing hurts Bass too.

I liked that he used what Rachel said to manipulate convince Connor to leave Mexico.

As much as I like anything Rachel and Bass, I don't want to ever see Rachel, Bass and Miles alone again. That's way too awkward. Rachel was very contained. Not because of Bass, but because of Miles. The scene in the wagon... Rachel and Bass kinda of agree they should do something soon, but Miles disagrees. There are moments Rachel kinda of wants to sympathize with Bass a little bit (when she was asking about Connor in spanish and the man shuts the door in their faces and inside the bar too), but hesitates because Miles is there with them. And it's not nice at all to see Bass as this huge third wheel.

So Rachel will have to save Bass again? That's way too much, IMHO. When Bass is going to save Rachel? Saving Charlie is cool, but it's not Rachel. Saving Gene is swell, but it's not Rachel. Saving Stay Puft is nice, but it's not Rachel. Not that Rachel needs to be saved from anything, but Bass owes her a lot. So yeah, it would be great if he saved her from a complicated situation. The wagon thing doesn't count. I believe Bass took it personally anyway.

We're like gasoline and a match. Forget the whole "we can't be in the same place" thing Rachel means to say, I'm going to pretend she's thinking about the song "Gasoline and Matches". Seriously, it's nice that the show is recognizing their explosive relationship. It's a perfect way to describe them. I mean, spark, fire, hotness heat and chemistry. That's Rachel and Bass, yes.

Gotta love that when Rachel is talking about Bass with other people she calls him Monroe, but when she is talking with Bass, she calls him Bass. Sweet and very telling detail.

Cool to see Grace back and I also enjoyed Charlie and Grandpa. More of them would be great.

I thought Tom was a little bit creepy with Julia. Do not like it. Julia seemed to really like it though. Tom is ruthless with everyone else in the world, except Julia. With Julia he was always a gentleman and kind. That's what I always liked about them. That and their ambitious personalities. It's always good to see Julia anyway. Not happy with being a rich wife. She wants to rule the world.

Also thought it was cool to see a little bit of Mexico. The road trip aspect was always one of my favorite things about the show. So we can get to see and explore the world after the blackout.