Hamburgo1001

Hawthorn

Thanks for opening, Alex! Once again I forgot the show was back this week and that we would need a new discussion thread.

Ann357

Not much Elizabeth last night

I thought the episode was okay last night. I'm anxious to see next weeks episode and how Charlie behaves.

Hawthorn

I haven't watched yet but I know the big spoiler - I'm curious to see how Charlie will react, too. If it will make her even more detached or if it's going to change her perspective and her latest behaviour.

Final ratings for the episode:
source

Up a tenth, back to 1.3. It's not much but better than going down or tying series low, I guess.

Hamburgo1001

Just watched the episode. Jason's death was incredibly predictable, but I thought JD Pardo gave a really good performance. It's too bad that the writers didn't give him anything decent to work with until his death episode.

IloveJules!

Jason.

If the Revolution twitter hadn't mentioned that a "fan favorite" would die, I'd have been completely shocked.

Knowing that someone would die and seeing how the show is trying to tells us that the reprogrammed cadets can't be saved and seeing Jason being the central character of the episode, then you just have to connect one thing to another to figure out that Jason would be the most likely to die.

But I was surprised that Charlie was the one to kill him. I didn't see this coming.

I was surprised that the woman (saleswoman) was a Patriot. I didn't see this coming too.

Charlie had no choice though. She tried to escape, but he grabbed her. She tried to hurt his leg, but it didn't work. She tried to convince him to stop and he didn't listen. So she had to do what she didn't want to do. If only she knew how to make Jason snap out of the reprogramming mode.

What a tragedy for both Jason and Charlie.

Very sad death for Jason. Poor boy was completely used by the Patriots. And I really have fun with Tom, so I like him, but he wasn't a good father. Jason was basically a victim of Tom's pride too. I was disappointed that Tom didn't try harder. He just let Jason go.

Yeah, I know, the writers wanted Jason to die. But I like to think from the characters' POV. So I thought it was disappointing to not see Tom fighting for his son.

I think Tom is going to be very mad at Charlie, but he's going to blame himself the most. And the Patriots are going to pay for it. I can see Tom being totally against the Patriots now.

It doesn't bode well for Julia. But it would be way cooler if Julia herself could find a way to escape. I really like Julia, so I hope she's alive. And I'd like to see how she will react to Jason's death.

At least Jason died in the arms of someone who really cared about him. It was a very beautiful and emotional moment between Charlie and Jason. I liked to see how Charlie went from not trusting him to completely supporting him. And I also liked how Jason brings the old sweet hopeful Charlie back.

But now Charlie is going to become darker and more hopeless yet, I think. It's time for Rachel to be a good mother and try to comfort Charlie.

What makes me frustrated is that the show is clearly telling us that these young innocent cadets can't be saved. I don't like it because that's very pessimist. It doesn't give much hope for a future, especially if you're killing the "future" of Willoughby. I think it's important to try to win the war and eradicate the Patriots and I understand there will be innocent people dying because of it. But I also would like to see Bass, Miles and co. trying to save as many innocent people as they can, especially these reprogrammed kids who are complete victims. If they just end up killing people to win the war, then they're as bad as the Patriots, IMHO.

If Charlie or Connor were one of the reprogrammed cadets, they would try to help.

Gene said that what happens with the reprogrammed kids "maybe it's some kind of post-hypnotic suggestion". So clearly there is a way to snap them out of it. Maybe reading the numbers again? Or they could find a way to get rid of the numbers. Rachel and Gene could try to do it. Being a scientist and a doctor, they have lots of knowledge to try to figure out.

I remember during the first season there was this episode inside a boat and they had this doctor and his family as hostage. Charlie and Miles had this discussion about what to do with them. Miles wanted to keep them as prisoners and Charlie wanted to let them go. Miles was saying this is war and blah blah blah and Charlie was saying she gets it but there are things she wouldn't accept to do. They ended up helping the doctor and his family.

It's basically the same situation now. The difference is that some characters have changed. Mainly Charlie and Rachel. Anyway, what I meant to say is that some characters may have changed, but I think they should still try to help innocent people despite the war.

I just would like to see them trying to do something to save some of the cadets. Just showing they can't be saved at all and have to be killed is very simplistic and pessimist and makes the main characters look bad too. Not very different from the Patriots.

By the way, what happened to the rebels? It would be interesting to see their perspective on the Patriots, especially because they're fighting to bring the U.S. back. And it would be good to see the rebels helping Miles and co. in this war against the Patriots, especially because the rebels (at least some of them) were really good people that probably wouldn't want to kill innocent kids too. I really really miss Nora.

Didn't like the parallels between Charlie killing Jason and Miles killing the kid. There's no comparison.

Miles is killing another kid. He's the man who killed husbands and sons. So one more kid. Now that he's trying to become a better person, maybe it will haunt him for a little while, but that's it.

Charlie just killed the person she really cared about and I'd say that she actually loved Jason. So it's very different. It will affect and change Charlie forever. It's a totally unfair comparison.

I felt completely bad for Charlie.

But I couldn't feel anything for Miles considering he always wanted to kill the kid.

I thought it was weird that they are in the middle of the crowd and Jason is grabbed and no one does anything. Bass knocks down the Texas Ranger and no reaction from the people too.

I like that the adult characters see Jason, Connor and Charlie as kids. Miles and Bass respect them and acknowledge their ability to help, but keep calling them kids.

Priscilla was weird since she ate the apple. So it's not surprising that her body is being controlled by the nanites. At least she's not pregnant. I think. It's interesting that they are inside her head too and she's dreaming too. I wonder if we're going to see it and if she will try to get out of the dream or if Aaron (and Rachel) will try to bring her back.

Rachel and Aaron. I wonder if Rachel was really crying or if it was the cold. Anyway, I can see why she would get a bit emotional and relieved that Aaron is back. Not only because he's a true friend, but because I think Rachel is feeling a little bit alone. Charlie and especially Miles seem to think more like Bass. They seem to think they have to do the things Bass wants to do to win this war against the Patriots. They think that's the only way. They just care about fighting and trying to win, it doesn't matter how they do it. I think Aaron would agree with Rachel. So I think it's a good feeling for Rachel to see Aaron again.

Now that Priscilla is being controlled by the nanites, I hope Rachel finds out about it and becomes more involved with the nanites storyline because she created them, so she should be more involved with it. And also because Rachel doesn't seem so interested in fighting against the Patriots. Not in the radical way that Bass wants to do it. So she could get more involved with the nanites and maybe find a way to help them defeat the Patriots through the nanites, somehow. And I bet for Rachel it's way funnier to talk nanites then talking war.

I mean, if the nanites want to make them believe they're good, they should help them defeat the Patriots. Then, they can turn against the humans and become devilish nanites.

And If Rachel doesn't agree with the way Bass is doing things, she could try to offer a better alternative. At least to save the cadets that are still alive (?). That would be cool. I don't think the writers will let it happen though.

I like that Rachel doesn't want to go with them because she knows they're going to kill the kids. It doesn't mean Rachel is against the war, but she's not going to kill kids or help Bass do it. And I like that she doesn't stop Charlie and Miles from going although she doesn't like to see them doing it. She doesn't like it at all, but I think she doesn't stop them because she sees the bigger picture. That's the chance they have to bring the Texas government to their side.

I really don't like when Bass is jealous of the relationship between Miles and Rachel. I actually don't like when he's jealous of Miles and all his romantic relationships. He was jealous of Miles and Emma (although it was more about Emma. I mean, he truly loved Emma ). He was jealous of Miles and Nora. And of course, he's jealous of Miles and Rachel.

However, I like that Bass hates Miles and Rachel together as much as I do.

I'm very unimpressed with this "love triangle" with Miles in the middle though. It's all about Miles and I don't care about him, so...

I think I'd appreciate if Miles completely ignores both Bass and Rachel, tells them to stop treating him like a puppet and to try to sort out their issues. And then Miles follows Charlie wherever she goes. Personally, I think Charlie is way better for Miles than Rachel and/or Bass will ever be. Miles said it himself. Bad things happen when he is with Rachel. Bad things happen when he is with Bass.

Maybe I'd like this whole Rachel/Miles/Bass thing if it becomes about Rachel and Bass too, eventually. I really miss seeing scenes just between Rachel and Bass. The fact they didn't have any scenes together and won't have frustrates the hell out of me.

I liked to see Rachel trying to mess up with the mind of that blonde guy who is fighting for Bass now. Because it was basically about Rachel and her issues with Bass. Not so much about Miles. Rachel is the last person on earth who would like to see the Monroe Republic back. And I like the idea of Rachel trying to stop it from coming back because of obvious reasons or Rachel trying to take the power away from Bass. Rachel and Bass fighting over power would be way more compelling to watch than Rachel and Bass fighting over Miles.

Well, I think this episode, maybe unintentionally, once again showed the similarities between Rachel and Bass. With Bass trying to convince Miles that Rachel is not a good person for him and with Rachel trying to convince the blonde guy that Bass is not a good leader for him. Both of them are very stubborn and competitive and they see each other as a challenge and competition since the beginning of the show. Which is great to watch. But without the physical closeness, the exchange of glances, the mind games and the occasional heart to heart conversations, it's not that great.

Walnut? This scene was really funny. And when I figured out that the man being whipped by Bass was Mr. Friendly...

It looks like Mr. Friendly is badly injured though, so I'm not sure if he will survive. I hope he does because I like the actor and the character is funny.

I'm one of those rare people that thinks season 1 is better than season 2, but I have to say that season 2 is funnier.

So the Governor Affleck mentioned by Randall in season 1 is actually Jennifer Garner.

It was cool to finally see bicycles.

I also thought it was cool that the episode was named after the tv show/music festival.

I really liked the episode and I think it was because of the focus on Jason and Charlie. It was refreshing.

Jason was a good/interesting character that shouldn't have been killed off. This episode showed the writers could have done much more with him.

I feel Jason's death (which wasn't a season finale death and he was a major character) was mostly an attempt to elevate the ratings. And if the show gets a third season, it will pave the way for a serious Charlie-Connor relationship. It seems the writers are not too fond of love triangles. And I'm assuming Connor will be a regular if there's a season 3. I just hope his death will bring actual character development for both Tom and Charlie, especially Charlie.

I'm weirdly looking forward to seeing episode 19. Because Liz said that's her favorite episode of the season so far, tied with episode 15. So if according to Liz, episode 19 is as good as episode 15, then I'm very curious about it. Really hope it is as good as Dreamcatcher.