Hamburgo1001

Hamburgo1001

Me too. If they couldn't be bothered to resolve it while the character was still alive and the actress was contracted as a series regular then they surely won't feel any differently now that the character has been disposed off and will only make a couple of cameos in season 6.

Well, if we take being killed off to mean that a female character didn't cut it with one of the Lost men, then Juliet obviously didn't really cut it either considering what happened in the season 5 finale. But I never expected it to end differently. Jack and Sawyer are reserved for Kate. Juliet and Ana-Lucia were only consolation prizes with whom they could bite their time while Kate was off doing something or someone else.

As usual, I find myself in complete agreement with your post. I don't have anything against romance or motherhood storylines either. In fact, I have enjoyed quite a few of them myself over the years. It's just that I think female characters shouldn't be defined by it. They should have something else going for them as well. Like all the main characters on Lost (except for Jin) do. And of course people are free to like whatever they want to like, but I personally find it to be a little bit bothersome and sad when liking a character like Juliet completely stops being about Juliet herself and is all about how her character relates to Sawyer instead and how her complete storyarc will be viewed as a failure now if she doesn't come back to reunite with him and one-up Kate in the romantic department. Sometimes women are still their own worst enemy. Although, to be fair, many many male Lost online fans sadly seem to share that sentiment.

GrhmLz

TFTNT! Oh, and not on the list here. Please add me when you get the chance.

Hamburgo1001

Absolutely. I'm gonna do it immediately.

And I hope you saw that I answered to your latest post on this thread instead of the old one.

JB4EVER

I'd like to be added to the supporters list she's my fav character on Lost

Hamburgo1001

You're added. Welcome to the thread.

GrhmLz

Thanks a bunch!

Just caught it now. I'm going to respond below.

Exactly - sad but true.

I almost feel bad for these writers in the sense that they're creating these awesome female characters; yet, they can't even see past the worth and potential that they've created along with them. They are so blind to it. Of course, LOL, I almost feel bad. For the most part, it just ticks me off.

Yeah, that's true. LOL. I kind of just meant in the sense that the writers never intended for Juliet to cut it because their intentions were to use her as another 'pawn' (like Ana-lucia) to promote the triangle. Kind of like what you just said. However, in the end, the fan reaction and support for Sawyer/Juliet blew up with the opposite effect. Thus, she never cut it in the eyes of the LOST writers because the writing plans of the writers was never going to change; however, she did 'cut it' with the audience. Thus, too little too late for her!

Not that I wanted Juliet to be validated in this way - EVER!

Right on with the Juliet analysis.

It bothers me too that someday in the future someone can hypothetically be asked to identity the most memorable aspects of the LOST characters. Now, if asked about Juliet, I'd probably respond with something like her leadership capabilities or her love for Rachel in using her talents to find a way to help her sister conceive Julian. Sadly, I think alot of other people will now answer with ... Sawyer!

Women can definitely be their own worst enemy. Personally, I feel that in striving to obtain independence and equality - they took on the male perspective as their own when fighting to the 'top' and kept glued to how men perceived them to be. So, in some weird and twisted way, 'independent women' have kept and adapted to these standards in new positions of power and they try to live up to them by using these standards to compete with another woman to validate themselves (perpetrating the male myth that ONE TYPE of woman rules; aka. In LOST ... only Kate ) - which just helps/serves to bring us down even more (because it's not a united female front anymore).

I swear, in stepping back, I think we can apply this logic to the pysche of the shipper madness that entails in shows like LOST. Like you said, anyone is free to like who and what they want. But I'm just referring to this irrational tendency to 'dog' on any other female character who appears to threaten the one they identify with (aka. Kate in LOST). Now, I'm not talking about personal preferences or about rational dislikes of new females that impact the story (like Female A is on show first with Male A and Female B hops on the scene with intent to break couple up and committ marital adultery. Or Female B has serious character flaws which questions your personal liking of said character). I'm talking about that there is literally this dislike formulated for new female characters soley based on a perception that they are a threat before anything has even happened or been hinted at with the Male character. In can happen in reverse too, Female A is disliked; therefore, fans want Female B to come onto the scene and outdo Female A by getting Male A. Once again, it's an example of female characters and their strength being measured on whether they can 'snag' a man (alot of times from the other woman). That's just the flip side to it from what we've seen with Kate vs. Juliet or Kate vs. Ana-lucia on LOST. LOST just fits the first stereotype of the 'one and only perfect woman that all the guys are supposed to want/desire.'

Also, in addition, alot of the time, there is only a temporary anger directed at the guy if/when he decides to cross the line with the other Female; however, it's short-lived for him and the Female character is the one that takes the heat for it. Now, this usually happens whether the anger is justified at a new coupling of Female B and Male A or not - but nevertheless, it is ALWAYS directed at the female more. Even if the female B character deserves it and the male character deserves the heat just as much or even more (if he cheated). Both Female A and Female B are in a no win situation with a female audience when it comes to Male A character. If he cheats, Female B is a bitch and somehow caused the Male to do it (because I guess he just can't control himself ). And if Female A doesn't forgive Male A for the cheating (I swear it get's justified and it's ridiculous) - she's somehow perceived as a bitch too. After all, somehow or in some way, she helped to push him in that direction.

^ The sad part is that this rationale is mostly perpetrated by females and a female viewing audience. Seriously, how many male LOST fans are out there right now ragging on Jack and Sawyer if they happen to relate to one of the guys and ship him with Kate? They're not ragging on the male gender and putting the opposite guy down - not like the female viewers crucify another female character. Wow - after writing that down and putting it into perspective, how freaking sad. I seriously want to bawl for our gender. This female believes in personal accountability - whether you are male or female. No gender restrictions apply for what is clearly right or wrong.

Thus - the hatred directed at poor Juliet from the shipping fandom. I mean, what did she really do that's any worse than the male characters or even Kate? And in this case, it's not even like Kate is with one the men inside of a committed relationship. She is the one ping-ponging back and forth, not Juliet. Not even the guy in this scenario (Jack or Sawyer), which is unusual when there is a triangle normally involved, is the one constantly pulling away.

Okay, that was a long analytical rant. Over now, though.

IloveJules!

Best Of 2009: Our Favorite TV Characters

GrhmLz

Okay, love that she was dubbed 'best of 2009' but I don't like the reasons behind it. Especially, the highlighted parts.

First off, I don't think Juliet 'came into her own' because of domesticity with Sawyer. This sounds too much like she's being defined by her relationship with a man. And she certainly didn't just start out as another 'pawn' in a love triangle from a season three perspective; however, looking back - it sure feels like that was the 'intention' from the start but we couldn't see it coming head on. They're probably just referencing the story point of season 5 but I still felt the need to get that out of my system.

Also, granted, her death is certainly an 'honorable one', but really, did she have much choice in the matter? LOL. I mean, as opposed to jumping down that hole after the device, herself, through complete free-will? Sawyer wasn't going to be able to hold on. She was yanked down the hole by the magnetic pull/force and was more than likely seriously injured when she hit bottom. There was really no hope for escape or rescue, nothing left for her to do expect ignite the explosive, save everyone, and finally end her own pain.

Wish Juliet could have gotten this nod back for 2006-2007 too.

Thanks for sharing it with us.

irulan

I completely agree with you Heather!

And the part:

I don't know if I have misunderstood what they wanna say, but fighting for what? For Sawyer's happiness instead of her happiness?

~ayumi~

add me please, I love Juliet <3

GrhmLz

You know, I was initially reading into that the same way you did but I just shook it off thinking maybe I was reading into it too much? But, yeah, not to mention if the only thing Juliet was fighting for was "Sawyer" and their relationship (depending on how you interpret motivations); the flip-side to your reasoning could make it appear totally self-centered. Where is the honor in her death if she's only thinking about herself the whole time (making sure she can get back to Sawyer)?!

For the record - I didn't see Juliet doing it for that reason. The noble/honorable part comes from the fact that she made a tough decision inside of tough circumstances.

Welcome to the thread, ~ayumi~. I'm sure Alex will add you as soon as she comes back.

Hero of Time

Yes . Oh yes .

GrhmLz

I was actually just re-watching her S3 flashback episodes the other day and I miss that the most. I wish they would have made mention of that work - which by far, outweighs S5 in my opinion.

Hero of Time

I actually hope that one of her season 6 appearances is related to her work.