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Old 03-11-2017, 05:49 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by truthisbeauty (View Post)
what happened in the middle is that the show lost its way. stefan no longer was important or interesting; elena only had eyes for damon--right or wrong; bonnie was just a plot device. The best and worst thing to happen to the show was that nina left. Her leaving forced the show down new avenues: Bonnie became a more central character and damon was forced to at least (try) to grow up, and the brothers became more of the focus again. here was the potential for the show to come back to life. Instead, all they could essentially do was put it in the freezer and thaw it out in the finale. you can't have all the characters really grow and move on when one of the most important of them is in a coma (and the actress who plays her can't return for more than an episode.) damon couldn't complete his redemption without elena around, or so the show claimed. He definitely couldn't fall in love with anyone else. Oh but stefan could! Stefan needs a grand reason for living (and relevancy) so why not have him fall in love with caroline? (everyone else has.) but what are we going to do about bonnie, who shines once the spotlight isn't on elena? Let's remove her powers but give her a great love too. Never mind whether or not these plot maneuvers are greatly convincing.

in the end, the finale had some of the show's original flavors and freshness but also freezer burn.i am glad that stefan's character was returned to his former glory--i always believed he was the hero--not perfect surely, or always as interesting as damon--but the hero nonetheless. (i mean, come on, he has the hair!) hence it makes sense that he died in the end. bonnie was always the strongest kick ass female, so she saved the day again with some magic mojo. damon finally became the big brother he was meant to be--all in one act? Well, it is assumed that he had a (human) lifetime to make amends, even though we won't get to see that. caroline is still the energizer bunny who keeps going no matter what. Finally, it makes sense why they kept matt alive all these years, for he was (literally) the most human. All of these aspects were in the original recipe and i am happy about them.

Do i think the show lived up to its full potential? No, although few really do. i personally saw the show taking a different way, had elena kept growing as a character. i could see elena exploring vampirism with damon, which starts out sexy but perhaps she goes ripper and both of them feel guilty. Elena becomes human but after she wakes from the sleeping curse she eventually falls back in love with stefan, who is likewise human. While elena is sleeping, damon is forced to become "a better man" with stefan and bonnie's help, and he and bonnie fall in love. in the finale, both stefan and damon sacrifice themselves to atone for their many sins, because neither can make the other leave and they are both equally "the best men." perhaps "the girls" grow to be young women together, forgetting they ever knew vampires, until the afterlife, when they all reunite. Perhaps in between, steroline could happen and bonenzo too. I was just never fully convinced of either of those ships as otps. I know all fans do not share my view, but in trying to be objective, this makes the most sense to me.

Perhaps there is no otp in the show, except for the brothers. Since that has been the central theme of the show all along, in the most important way, the finale succeeded even while the show failed to live up to its full potential.
^All of this.
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Old 03-11-2017, 11:14 PM
  #32
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^Thanks Kat. Love your Buffy/Angel pic.

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Bonnie and Stefan deserves better than everyone on this show.. Sigh.. But whatever..
Yeh, believe it or not the writers are saying that Bonnie's ending is a happy one. Yes, she gets to live (for a change) literally and figuratively, but it's still isolated from the rest of her supposed "best friends" and of course "the love of her life" Enzo is gone. She can't be friends with the others unless she sacrifices everything for them? This show likes to go from one extreme to the other.
The writers were also harder on Stefan than anyone else in the whole show. Even Alaric's tragedies weren't deemed somehow "his fault". Yes Stefan was hard on himself but why did the writers think he deserved this and yet Damon gets more time to learn how to be moral? Oh well...like I said, it's the best they could do with what they had written already.
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Old 03-12-2017, 12:22 AM
  #33
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I just think it's so sad and disturbing that Stefan, the kid who has been depressed and guilt ridden throughout most of his supernatural life had to basically commit suicide to have a happy ending. It is just such a morose and disgusting message to send. I mean you can put any kind of spin you want on it, but in the end Stefan's character had absolutely no progression... his whole 'story' has been used to prop Damon. How Julie/Kevin thought this was the right choice is beyond me, but it does prove to me that Damon's story is really the only one they give a damn about.
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Old 03-12-2017, 12:55 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Glader|4|Life (View Post)
I just think it's so sad and disturbing that Stefan, the kid who has been depressed and guilt ridden throughout most of his supernatural life had to basically commit suicide to have a happy ending. It is just such a morose and disgusting message to send. I mean you can put any kind of spin you want on it, but in the end Stefan's character had absolutely no progression... his whole 'story' has been used to prop Damon. How Julie/Kevin thought this was the right choice is beyond me, but it does prove to me that Damon's story is really the only one they give a damn about.
Totally agree with everything.

At first when I watched the episode I was kinda distracted and not paying attention but afterwards when I actually spoke to others and thought about it, I was so saddened. Stefan was not a hero in this equation. For me heroes are people who want to live but end up dead in a fight or because they have no choice. Stefan had a death wish during those last couple episodes and it's so disturbing that the writers are trying to glorify suicide like that. He basically went from wanting to live to wanting to die multiple times in 8x12-8x15. And we saw him wanting to commit suicide in S1 and then being willing to die a few times after that. This behaviour is what you see in someone who is clinically depressed and mentally ill. And even though he had things that made him happy in the end his self-loathing made him choose death. And I'm not saying he's a saint but on this show since all the characters have done terrible things and are seen as the heroes the situation is judged differently.

And of course these writers probably don't even see it that way. But what do you expect from people who don't even realise they're writing rape scenes or didn't think Caroline should react to having her body violated with a forced pregnancy and all the other gross things they've done?
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Old 03-12-2017, 05:18 AM
  #35
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I completely see what you guys are saying. Stefan by far and away didnt deserve this ending and its depressing in a lot of ways how they wrote him out. I see where they were going and why they thought it was poetic but its hard to take. I think just knowing the series is over and all the actors are moving on just makes it easier though. Also believing they all find peace eventually anyways.

a few things i want to comment on after reading the thread:

Tyler and Vicki didnt end up together They were just both watching over Matt because he meant something to them.

Still the worst part bY FAR of the finale was Elena’s curse suddenly being lifted. IS THERE ANY EXPLANATION THERE AT ALL FOR HOW SHE FIGURED THAT OUT I AM CONFUSED.

Quote:
Bonnie randomly coming up with a way to break the spell. So dumb and forced. Couldn't they just say that Katherine drugged Elena and have it be that Elena woke up because Bonnie's heart stopped for a minute? That actually made a bit of sense
yes I agree. It made more sense to have Elena just wake up because Bonnie’s heart stopped.

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- But what's with the "ringing every 5 minutes"? Why? Matt didn't have to wait that long the first time he tried that. Why would Katherine give the party so much time to stop her?
i wondered this too!

you made a lot of good points actually. haha. But ehhh its tv. There’s often a lot of holes. Writers aint that great most of the time. And by that I mean they just do really care about all the little details of their show like they should. I've only seen 1 show thats truly impressed me from start to finish where it was obvious the writers put that much detail into the writing and the story.

Truthisbeauty, you made some good points. I too wanted the boys to die TOGETHER. I think I would have been happier with that ending even if I didnt get my DE endgame. Maybe even given CAROLINE the cure and like you said, compelled the girls to forget about the boys existence and move away and have happy lives as young women.
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Old 03-12-2017, 07:09 AM
  #36
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JP has a fixation with the word 'epic'
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Old 03-12-2017, 07:20 AM
  #37
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But what's with the "ringing every 5 minutes"? Why? Matt didn't have to wait that long the first time he tried that. Why would Katherine give the party so much time to stop her?
I think she did it because Katherine needed some time to curl her hair before the big hell fire finale
Did anyone notice that she must have curled her hair within like 5 to 10 minutes, after she pretended to be Elena with straight hair?
There were quite a few scenes in the finale where all I could do was roll my eyes...

And I 100% agree, the worst plot hole was Bonnie breaking the sleeping curse within a couple of minutes.

Second place goes to the missing logic behind Stefan forcing the cure on Damon, without knowing that Bonnie would break the sleeping curse. It really would have been ridiculous if Bonnie hadn't been able to break the curse and Damon would have died as a human before Elena even woke up.
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Old 03-12-2017, 07:36 AM
  #38
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I have to say that I am not obsessed with the show and haven't been obsessed for a while... BUT it was a show I always looked forward to watching. I watch a lot of tv and I will keep them in my PVR for weeks before actually sitting down and watching them, but not TVD. Every Friday night or latest, Saturday morning... I had to watch. It kept my interest.

I do see a lot of your points, especially about Bonnie. After the finale I started watching from the pilot again... and I realized that Bonnie's one great love was Enzo. I don't think she had anyone else other than him. Her role on this show seems to have been a very strong supportive character. And that's not my opinion. I don't believe she is just a supporting character by any means, but that's quite literally her role in the TVD world. However, I see her as the one person constantly saving these people's lives. So she is and always has been far more than just a giant support.

Stefan is a little more complicated to me. I never analyzed or dissected his or Damon's character, nor did I ever compare who is the better brother. I just saw them as both terrible vampires when their humanities are shut and Stefan having learned to change because of the awful things he's done during those times while Damon felt bitter and angry. I don't think it means one is better than the other. With that being said, other than Elena magically waking up out of nowhere, the other thing that still bothers me, but in a completely different way, is stefan dying and not ending up with Caroline.
Their love story may not have been around since day 1, but it was a few seasons brewing and I actually felt something for those 2. It isn't fair that their love came to a halt like that as if it wasn't as important as Damon and Elena's... or even Bonnie and Enzo. Their goodbye felt rushed.
And I feel like Caroline should have felt both her mom AND Stefan by her side.
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Old 03-12-2017, 09:52 AM
  #39
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JP has a fixation with the word 'epic'
KW is just as if not more obsessed with it. They've made me despise it
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Old 03-12-2017, 10:05 AM
  #40
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I'm confused about why Stefan had to die. So the only way to stop Katherine was to stab her and then have the hell-fire consume both of them? Also, why did Katherine keep coming back after being stabbed several times in the episode?
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Old 03-12-2017, 11:42 AM
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don't look for reason and logic, I've learnt that with TVD a long time ago
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Old 03-12-2017, 11:47 AM
  #42
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A lot of things didnt made much sense. I think Katherine said the dagger sends her to hell but it cant keep her there
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Old 03-12-2017, 02:28 PM
  #43
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I'm confused about why Stefan had to die. So the only way to stop Katherine was to stab her and then have the hell-fire consume both of them?
This. I was like, "Couldn't they have stabbed her and put her in the path?" I mean, she would get stabbed and didn't immediately come back. They just wanted Stefan to die, I guess.

And Bonnie just happens to figure out how to undo the spell.
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Old 03-12-2017, 03:41 PM
  #44
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Wow, can't believe the show's really over.
And I can't believe they killed off Stefan. I had a feeling someone was going to die in the finale, but I kinda thought it was going to be Bonnie (and then her and Enzo could be together in the afterlife).

Overall I liked the ep, but I would prefer it if Stefan got a happy ending as well. He (and Caroline) deserved it.

Loved seeing Lexi though! And all the other cameos in the final scene.

Quote:
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Second place goes to the missing logic behind Stefan forcing the cure on Damon, without knowing that Bonnie would break the sleeping curse. It really would have been ridiculous if Bonnie hadn't been able to break the curse and Damon would have died as a human before Elena even woke up.
That's exactly what I was thinking before the Elena waking up scene!

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This. I was like, "Couldn't they have stabbed her and put her in the path?" I mean, she would get stabbed and didn't immediately come back.
THIS. I just don't get it.

Also, I hate that it was so important for Stefan to sacrifice himself in order to redeem himself for killing Enzo, while nobody seems to care anymore that Damon killed Tyler earlier this season?
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Old 03-12-2017, 04:28 PM
  #45
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I'm confused about why Stefan had to die. So the only way to stop Katherine was to stab her and then have the hell-fire consume both of them? Also, why did Katherine keep coming back after being stabbed several times in the episode?
Plotholes are just the many gifts that keep on giving with this show .

From what I gathered though Katherine was now in charge of hell and she could come and go as she pleased so after they killed her she could pop back to the living. Someone had to make sure she didn't escape the hellfire so that they could kill her and destroy hell forever. Stefan decided he was expendable enough to do it .
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