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Old 04-25-2014, 01:44 PM
  #16
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Because for years now it has been Stefan who just gives and Damon who just takes. And I’m sick and tired that Stefan has to constantly sacrifice his own happiness just to spare Damon’s precious feelings less he goes on a murderous rampage again.
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Old 04-25-2014, 01:48 PM
  #17
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I think both the brothers give and take from each other the same, they sacrificed their own happiness for the other and saved each other many times as much as they both hurt each other in many ways and times But it has also been proven they love each other and in my opinion none suffered more than the other in the long run, they both had crappy lives, don't see it as a competition, it's pointless to me

And I think there is plenty of time to build Defan again, they already started and they keep doing it and I'm very happy with it, love their scenes in the last episodes
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Old 04-25-2014, 01:53 PM
  #18
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Of course you would want it rebuild, Demon get all the benefits from it.
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Old 04-25-2014, 02:13 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimiter (View Post)
Of course you would want it rebuild, Demon get all the benefits from it.
I want it to be rebuild because I think the brothers love each other and both would be happy to be close as they used to Feelings aren't a matter of benefits for me, it's not an economical agreement of any kind, it's about two brothers who lost each other and now they're re-building their relationship towards many problems, slowly and personally I'm enjoying it finally after a very long time Personally I'd love to see the bros' relationship to be ok in the end because it'd make both of them happy, but if you think Stefan will be better off without his brother, we'll agree to disagree on this

Again, it's not a competition to me
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Old 04-25-2014, 02:19 PM
  #20
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Of course you would want it rebuild, Demon get all the benefits from it.
ok


i agree with you Anna. I think a lot of people get so lost in their ships that it's hard for them to see things outside of it. I completely agree about Damon and Stefan. I flove them. I always have. Even at their worst, I knew to hold on.
I also think it's easy to forget about all the things that happened in their history, but because the writers didn't include it in the present, it's just rolls off people's back. That's totally fine because I let everything roll off mine too, but I'm also not gonna be bias about it. Both Stefan and Damon have done horrible things. Just because the show introduced Stefan as good and Damon as bad, doesn't mean it was always like that and definitely does not mean the rolls weren't reversed at one point or another.
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Old 04-25-2014, 02:29 PM
  #21
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i agree with you Anna. I think a lot of people get so lost in their ships that it's hard for them to see things outside of it. I completely agree about Damon and Stefan. I flove them. I always have. Even at their worst, I knew to hold on.
I also think it's easy to forget about all the things that happened in their history, but because the writers didn't include it in the present, it's just rolls off people's back. That's totally fine because I let everything roll off mine too, but I'm also not gonna be bias about it. Both Stefan and Damon have done horrible things. Just because the show introduced Stefan as good and Damon as bad, doesn't mean it was always like that and definitely does not mean the rolls weren't reversed at one point or another.
I lost hope for them many times, IMA, but then the writers gave me even one signle little moment and I got my hope again I think it has been a long while since the last time we could define a "good brother" and a "bad brother", they both are both these things I'm ok with them right now, I'm not going to bring the past back just to prove a point, I'm just looking forward to see their relationship keep blossom again and again

Both the brothers suffered many times in their lives, both hurt/lied/manipulated the other, both have issues. But also they both saved each other, sacrificed for the other, and to me it's clear they love each other very much. They just face things differently, as it should be since they're tow very different people But in the end they know it's better to have the other in their lives and none at all, it was shown in 4x15 and it was shown last episode and that's exactly how I think they feel and why I like them like this, faults and virtues
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Old 04-25-2014, 02:34 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Touldengal (View Post)
I find it fascinating when vampires are being held to some sort of moral standard, as if they're humans I'm sorry, but nothing shocks me on the show so when I read comments about how bad or I can't believe so and so did this, I just let it roll off my back because at the end of the day, vampires are not humans and they are capable of things that regular humans are not. They've all done horrible things.


The point of Stefan not wanting Damon to know about what he did was moreso for Damon's sake than his own. Enzo's speech probably reminded Stefan of Damon at one point, how he was before turning off his humanity. Stefan doesn't want Damon to know because after having just broken up with Elena, Stefan is probably afraid of what Damon would do, ie: turn off the switch.

Also, it didn't bother me that Damon killed Maggie since his switch was off. So I don't even understand what the big deal is tbh. They've all had their switches turned off at one point and have all killed innocent people. What makes Damon worse than them? It's unfortunate that she ended up being Enzo's love, but that's how it turned out so


I loved the flashback and how Stefan looked out for Damon even though they were on the outs at that point. It shows that they've always loved and cared for each other (as long as their emotions were there of course).

Damon telling Stefan that he owed Enzo was sweet. I don't know why it has to be nit picked at. Enzo kept Damon's switch on by igniting emotion in him when he was being tortured so that despite all his anger toward Stefan, he kept loving him throughout. Stefan, as a loving brother, "owes" him in the sense that Enzo made sure Damon never lost that love. It would have been very easy for Damon to hold on to all that anger, but DS were probably able to fix their relationship in large part because of Enzo. And if Stefan cherishes his relationship with Damon, and I believe he does, this would and should mean something to him.

I don't think it's contest over who had a worse year, but Damon was taken back by the Augustines, tortured some more, lost the love of his life and was infected with a virus. So yeah, he's had a bad year. No one compared his to theirs though. Brothers don't need to do that because not everything is a contest. Stefan cares THAT deeply about him that he doesn't need to make everything about himself.
I like what you have said. However, I think the writers have been inconsistent with Stefan and Damon's back-story and relationship...which makes Defan confusing and hard to get excited about for me. But then TVD is full of plot holes and inconsistencies so....

I am very sad to see Enzo go. But suicide by Stefan was interesting. I think keeping Enzo's death from Damon is silly. But I guess is may draw SE closer and provide drama with Damon and them.

It was also silly to see Elena and Bonnie studying. Bonnie knows she may die soon so why bother! Although I think Kat does a great job acting with the material she has Bonnie's story feels very much like a repeat of what has been done before.

I am happy the Travelers haven't been shown to be love sick fools like all the other villains...I hope it stays that way.
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Old 04-25-2014, 02:35 PM
  #23
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exactly! I'm not going to go through the episodes to prove my point and I can't even think of things off the top of my head, but I think it's been proven time and time again that the writers have been actively showing us that these two have done horrible things to each other, but at the same time, have sacrificed a whole lot for each other as well.
Their love is strong and I never doubted it.
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Old 04-25-2014, 04:46 PM
  #24
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It is easy to generalize and say that both brothers have done horrible stuff to each other but if you really think about it, I bet the only bad thing Stefan has done to Damon is killing his chew-toy Andy in the beginning of season 3. And even this was in badly misguided attempt to protect him.
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Old 04-25-2014, 06:15 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimiter (View Post)
It is easy to generalize and say that both brothers have done horrible stuff to each other but if you really think about it, I bet the only bad thing Stefan has done to Damon is killing his chew-toy Andy in the beginning of season 3. And even this was in badly misguided attempt to protect him.
It's easy to point out only things shown in present time, but there were things that Stefan did in the past that are relevant to this discussion too.
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Old 04-25-2014, 06:30 PM
  #26
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Alright, since it seems you can’t think of anything else horrible that Stefan has to Damon after they appeared in Elena’s life, maybe you can give an example from those woobiefing retconning flashback’s we were treated to in seasons 2,3 and 4?
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Old 04-25-2014, 06:38 PM
  #27
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It seems rather irrelevant to me to argue who did what to whom. Clearly Damon and Stefan care about each other and Stefan continues to do things to protect and help Damon. The show runners continue to talk about Defan and that it is important...even if their storytelling isn't very good at showing their message.
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Old 04-25-2014, 06:58 PM
  #28
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Damon is a grade A douche.. he doesn't deserve Stefan's loyalty or love. I am so sick of people saying it's a ship thing.. NO, IT'S NOT!! I don't like Damon and it's not because Elena loves him.. it's because I LOVE Stefan, and it's because I love Stefan that I can't stand the way Damon treats him. Anyone who watches this show knows that they have both done bad things to each other, but it's Damon's constant bitchy attitude and lacklustre loyalty that he has to his own brother that sets him apart (imo). Don't try and sell me the relationship through Stefan's part when I already know and can see that Stefan loves his brother.. sell me it on Damon's part. Defan is the biggest joke on this show. I can completely understand why most Stefan fans hate the Defan brother-hood.

Also, I will nit-pick at whatever I want.. everyone who watches this show is a victim of that. We all do it, it's not some conspiracy against Damon.
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Old 04-25-2014, 07:04 PM
  #29
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The idea of Defan is nice, but it would be much more appealing to Stefan fans if the relationship was more balanced and reciprocal.
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Old 04-25-2014, 07:05 PM
  #30
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Okay it is possible to have issues with Damon and Stefan without it not being about ELena.. because that is where my problem is.... No matter what some say their relationship is one sided. and there hasn't been any growth of their relationship its not even an even relationship its one brother gives and the other takes. I am sorry no matter what this show tells me.... Defan relationship is nonexistent to me because the writing for the show has shown me nothing different.
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