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Old 11-04-2012, 01:42 PM
  #46
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Oh, btw...I've been meaning to say, what's with that contrived line about how Caroline is too good at self-control and she doesn't know how hard it is? She became good at it, it's not like she was fantastic right when she turned. Hello, she killed someone herself! And Caroline talked Elena down from killing April in 4x02, so that whole line really was a mess.

I get that the show wants to pin Damon against Stefan, always, for everything, but at least find a better excuse for Damon teaching her than acting like Caroline was born with self-control.
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:06 PM
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what's with that contrived line about how Caroline is too good at self-control and she doesn't know how hard it is? She became good at it, it's not like she was fantastic right when she turned. Hello, she killed someone herself!
I get what the show means though because I remember it being a frequent topic that came up in the Caroline\Candice thread - that Caroline's transition after it hit the bumpy patch in the beginning was pretty easy compared to Damon and Stefan. She killed the one guy and did end up biting Matt once but after that, it was pretty easy for her to go back into her life as normal. She drank from blood bags and she didn't have anymore problem controlling her blood lust. She talked about eating to curb the cravings but usually she said that when she was trying to trick someone into thinking she really needed to eat (Elena in 2x04 and Stefan in 2x09). Some people criticized the fact that Caroline was basically her human self except w/ fangs. She was even able to overtake vampires that were older than her (Damon and Franklin & Co.) It was a relatively easy transition from human to vampire for Caroline especially when compared to Stefan who became a ripper and Damon who had all that hate bottled up in him until he learned to "revel" in the kills. There's a reason why they always bring up that Caroline was\is a "control-freak" - it's because it was heightened and she was able to use her need for control to control her urges for blood.
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:37 PM
  #48
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I get what the show means though because I remember it being a frequent topic that came up in the Caroline\Candice thread - that Caroline's transition after it hit the bumpy patch in the beginning was pretty easy compared to Damon and Stefan. She killed the one guy and did end up biting Matt once but after that, it was pretty easy for her to go back into her life as normal. She drank from blood bags and she didn't have anymore problem controlling her blood lust. She talked about eating to curb the cravings but usually she said that when she was trying to trick someone into thinking she really needed to eat (Elena in 2x04 and Stefan in 2x09). Some people criticized the fact that Caroline was basically her human self except w/ fangs. She was even able to overtake vampires that were older than her (Damon and Franklin & Co.) It was a relatively easy transition from human to vampire for Caroline especially when compared to Stefan who became a ripper and Damon who had all that hate bottled up in him until he learned to "revel" in the kills. There's a reason why they always bring up that Caroline was\is a "control-freak" - it's because it was heightened and she was able to use her need for control to control her urges for blood.
No, that I get. Caroline is ridiculously good at being a vampire. If Elena needed advice on how to handle being a vampire, Caroline's not the best person to ask because it is in fact too easy for her. But with control, it's one of those things where she experienced that difficulty herself initially, so she can relate enough. I don't think you need to experience it for years to understand, the point is to have struggled with it at least once. Plus, it's not really that complicated. She just needed someone to help her feed on people without killing them - Caroline's fully capable of that. Plus, Caroline's the one that's helping Stefan stay IN CONTROL... isn't that a contradiction? She could never understand Stefan's internal struggle and yet she can help him but not Elena? It doesn't add up.

Hell, they could've just said "Caroline doesn't feed on people, she drinks from blood bags so Damon is the better option for a teacher" and it would've been more believable than Caroline being too good at it, lol.
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:43 PM
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I think Stefan should be the one helping her and I don't think she should be going to school and she needs to stop whining about being a vampire she is a newborn she needs time to adjust.
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Old 11-04-2012, 06:03 PM
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Stefen can't teach Elena control. Why? Because Stefen has no control. A few sips of human blood and he goes insane. Not the teacher you want.

Caroline as a too good vampire is simply a plot device for more Elena/Damon scenes, which of course lead to guilty whiny Elena wondering where Stefen is. Gag me with a spoon.

Why are so many people harpying on this and totaly overlooking the fact that Stefen is once again teaming up with Klaus, behind everyones back I might add. Its gonna end badly.



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Old 11-04-2012, 06:26 PM
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But with control, it's one of those things where she experienced that difficulty herself initially, so she can relate enough. I don't think you need to experience it for years to understand, the point is to have struggled with it at least once.
This is true I see what you mean and you're right in that she was able to help him in 4x02 w/ pulling her off of April and helping her learn to compel and Caroline didn't judge her and Elena was proud of herself in the end. I guess they either worded it weirdly and should have given it another reason or like MagnusXXN just said, they wanted to give Damon and Elena more scenes together.

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Why are so many people harpying on this and totaly overlooking the fact that Stefen is once again teaming up with Klaus, behind everyones back I might add. Its gonna end badly.
It's not that surprising to me, I guess. Stefan wants to help Elena, people basically do anything to help Elena in this show so him keeping a secret from the gang isn't really surprising. Besides, people do plans behind each others back all the time in this show. Damon and Elena had one behind Stefan's back in 3x09 that he thought he was involved in until he got nibbled on by Michael. Stefan and Elena had one behind Damon's back and Stefan broke Damon's back so that Elena could talk to Esther. In 2x07, the whole gang were planning to take down Katherine w/o telling Elena. It's the usual not saying it's going to go down well but it's not surprising and it has happened before.
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Old 11-04-2012, 10:10 PM
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Everything about this episode annoyed me
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Old 11-04-2012, 10:15 PM
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Why are so many people harpying on this and totaly overlooking the fact that Stefen is once again teaming up with Klaus, behind everyones back I might add. Its gonna end badly.
Because everyone who is anyone on this show does things behind people's back. It's the way TVD rolls. I am not complaining, because I love Stefan and I love Klaus, but what I love even more is a Stefan/Klaus team-up.. I have to grab what little I like about this show right now, and really indulge in it :lol"
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:36 AM
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Maybe I'm just annoyed because Stefen's plans usualy fail, mostly because of Elena's involvement but still...fail. And with this whole cure thing 'fail' can end badly with alot of characters.

Besides, if their is a cure why not tell Elena? Sure, it might upset Damon again because like before with stopping her from turning he might point out how its never happened in the history of vampires. So its iffy.

....How about the fact that Klaus only wants Elena cured is so be can continue using her as his human blood bank for making hybreds? Hardly a happy outcome for Elena either way.



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Old 11-05-2012, 12:53 PM
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I really liked this episode but I couldn't help feeling bad for Rebekah all the time. Klaus is the worst brother ever. In S3 I really believed he loved Rebekah in his own way but now I see he loves noone.

Also I was hoping Stefan would back stab Klaus but he didn't. He knows both too well and it's obvious Rebekah is more trust worthy than Klaus no matter what she did recently.

I'm glad Connor escaped and that they didn't make the character weaker like they do with most humans. I love the twist in the end and I'm already liking profesor Shane. IMO anything is better than Jaime and at least Bonnie will get scenes with someone who is involved in the storyline.


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I'm not a fan of this cure business. If they pursue they will have jumped the shark for me.
ITA. I really hope that if they find the cure it gets destroyed and noone gets turned back. But I wouldn't mind if Rebekah or Tyler (who would still remain a werewolf) get cured. But Elena, Damon, Stefan & Klaus should remain vampires.
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:58 PM
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Ah, but just who will want the cure? Elena obviously. She gets to be a vamp for a short period of time, giving her new reason to be whiny and maryter like.

Then theres Stefen, who will want the cure so he doesn't have to deal with going insane and killing lots of people all the time.....unless he becomes a serial killer.

Rebekah wants a chance to be human. Dunno if she deserves one, but I wouldn't mind.

Tylar....might not want to be changed back. I don't know if Caroline will either.

Damon's the big what if. Hes stated before that his deepest secret is how he misses being human, but he'll never admit to that. I don't know what he'd do either.

At any rate, its not like they know about it. Its currently a secret between Klaus and Stefen. Stefen wont tell anyone until he forces it down Elena's throat and takes it himself. Everyone else will be a far off second in his mind. Selfish? I think I've made my thoughts clear on that score.



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Old 11-05-2012, 03:52 PM
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At any rate, its not like they know about it. Its currently a secret between Klaus and Stefen. Stefen wont tell anyone until he forces it down Elena's throat and takes it himself.
Ya because Stefan is the one who always forces things on Elena, lol. Haven't we been watching a show where Stefan respects Elena's choice??? HE would prefer an eternity with her, he said so himself. He wants the cure for her because he knows she never wanted to be a vamp. Idg why Stefan gets hated on even when he does nothing wrong.

Also, I don't think Stefan has anything to gain by telling Elena or Damon or anyone. Klaus told him he'd wipe their memories if he did, so then there goes his chances of getting the cure. It's not like he's lying for no reason.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:04 PM
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Ah, yes. Stefen's great respect for Elena and her choices. I think I made my feelings on that with my statement of...


Elena: "I wanna die."

Stefen: "I respect that."

Damon: "....your both idiots."

Now, on the one hand Stefen and his allowing Elena to die because it was her choice is admirable in theory but in practice makes him a tool. If he'd saved her she wouldn't currently be a vampire.

So in fact her currently problems are really Stefen's faught. Now, his statement that he'd stay with her for eternity is cute in a 16yr old girl sorta way, in practice Stefen's still a simi-sane ripper half the time.

So either Elena would become a ripper as well, and they could flog one another while eatting bunnies and brooding or she'd end up a regular vampire in which she may very well become tired of the whole thing.

Now on the other hand, Stefen turning her human again with or without or 'choice' coming into play would save her from eventually taking a life and spiraling down from there.

All in all, this whole thing is doomed from the get go. And I don't just mean the cure.

But honestly, I don't see Elena or Stefen getting cured. That really would jump the shark here. So I'm willing to sit back and watch this whole thing unfold and not be surprized when Damon, Caroline, Tylar, Rebekah, or even Klaus end up human again.



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Old 11-05-2012, 08:22 PM
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Ah, yes. Stefen's great respect for Elena and her choices. I think I made my feelings on that with my statement of...


Elena: "I wanna die."

Stefen: "I respect that."

Damon: "....your both idiots."

Now, on the one hand Stefen and his allowing Elena to die because it was her choice is admirable in theory but in practice makes him a tool. If he'd saved her she wouldn't currently be a vampire.

So in fact her currently problems are really Stefen's faught. Now, his statement that he'd stay with her for eternity is cute in a 16yr old girl sorta way, in practice Stefen's still a simi-sane ripper half the time.

So either Elena would become a ripper as well, and they could flog one another while eatting bunnies and brooding or she'd end up a regular vampire in which she may very well become tired of the whole thing.

Now on the other hand, Stefen turning her human again with or without or 'choice' coming into play would save her from eventually taking a life and spiraling down from there.

All in all, this whole thing is doomed from the get go. And I don't just mean the cure.

But honestly, I don't see Elena or Stefen getting cured. That really would jump the shark here. So I'm willing to sit back and watch this whole thing unfold and not be surprized when Damon, Caroline, Tylar, Rebekah, or even Klaus end up human again.

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Okay, that's fine if you don't like that Stefan let Elena die. I was addressing the fact that you said Stefan would force Elena to take the cure, which goes against everything we know. If he respects her choice so much he's willing to let her die, stupid or not, he's obviously not about to force a cure on her.

But honestly, this whole storyline is stupid. No one is going to get the cure, or if they do, it's not gonna last long. I'm hoping the storyline has another purpose to it, because otherwise it's kind of a waste of time.
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Old 11-06-2012, 02:01 PM
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Ah, maybe not pour the cure down her throat. But Stefen will keep quiet about the whole thing and let Klaus pour it down her throat. After all, manipulation and letting someone else do the dirty work is very much in Stefen's wheel house.

And I agree, the cure storyline is stupid. Turning Elena then turning her human would be a total waste of time. But then, this is a show thats been pushing this love triangle on us for years so obviously the writers aren't too bright.

At any rate, we'll see what happens.



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