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Old 02-17-2012, 03:41 AM
  #61
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Well holy hell, I honestly cant see how they cant have Bonnie get her Willow on and get some revenge on Damon/Stefan or stick around Mystic Falls after her mother and her grandmother die because of those two and Elena. They should atleast let her take away their freedom to walk in the sun. And why didnt the witches protect Bonnie and her mother?


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Bonnie should have every right to be mad and everyone should feel bad, but I don't see why people have to blame this on Damon and Stefan or they should be labeled as bad guys or why what they did is disgusting.
They still took a life to save a life. Doesnt matter if they turned her, it was against her will. They would never turn Elena against her will even though it could have ended Klaus' hybrid plan.
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Old 02-17-2012, 04:28 AM
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They still took a life to save a life. Doesnt matter if they turned her, it was against her will. They would never turn Elena against her will even though it could have ended Klaus' hybrid plan.
I never said what they did was fun or right, but what else were they suppose to do? It was hers against Elena's, Abby was just a stranger to them, Elena was the woman they loved and cared about, the choice was pretty clear. Just as anyone would choose the life of someone they loved against some stranger they barely knew.

Yeah it is life for a life, but unfortunately the world is harsh like that. I never said Bonnie shouldn't be pissed or angry about it, Bonnie should be and she has every right to. And if she attacks Damon and Stefan or never speaks to Elena again, then all rights to her, I wouldn't say anything against that. She could go level the whole town and kill all the vampire and she would have every right to do so.

But what else was Damon and Stefan to do? Let Elena die? They had exhausted all their other alternative plans and turning Abby was their last resort. It's not like they were jumping at the chance to, they weren't happy about this either. But this is a war they're fighting, no one was gonna come out of this smelling like roses, there was always gonna be sacrifices and collateral damage. Abby unfortunately was the collateral damage this time around in trying to keep Elena alive.

Abby Bennett is not the first nor will she hardly be the last to suffer/die for Elena to live. It's unfortunate and it's sad, but I would not expect the Salvatores to do any different. Elena is their priority, everyone else is expendable, that was always made very clear from the beginning.
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Old 02-17-2012, 07:49 AM
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the only good think about last few episodes was Claroline! I need more of them badly! But i have to wait whole month! Its not fair! Do you agree?
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Old 02-17-2012, 07:51 AM
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Abby Bennett is not the first nor will she hardly be the last to suffer/die for Elena to live. It's unfortunate and it's sad, but I would not expect the Salvatores to do any different. Elena is their priority, everyone else is expendable, that was always made very clear from the beginning
This is true, if anything this just shows that everyone should just leave MF because if Elena is in danger and you are around, you will be killed if it can save her.
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Old 02-17-2012, 08:01 AM
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You know what? They can make one episode each months so that we can get use to all this pauses. I am sooo angry!
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Old 02-17-2012, 08:03 AM
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Bonnie should have every right to be mad and everyone should feel bad, but I don't see why people have to blame this on Damon and Stefan or they should be labeled as bad guys or why what they did is disgusting.

It's not like they jumped at the chance to kill the Bennett witches, heck, their first instinct was to find another way out of this so that they wouldn't have to attack Bonnie or Abby. The whole plan with daggering Kol was suppose to be their chance to stop Elijah's plan and to make sure no one else has to die. Turning Abby into a vampire was a last resort because they didn't have any other choice and they certainly were not going to let Elena die. They were backed into a corner in this one and Abby was the unfortunate collateral damage. It's not like anyone is cheering over this. They all realized this was bad, it was wrong, but there wasn't any other way.
I don't even think they should feel bad about it. Abby was a stranger to ALL of them including Bonnie. She was only Bonnie's mother b/c of DNA it's not like they were close & had a long standing relationship. So I totally see why it was easy to make the choice between saving Elena who they all love & have a relationship w/versus some woman they just met. If Bonnie were to flip out or to go dark it would've been more understandable to me after her grams died b/c she barely knew Abby. In Mystic Falls time they've known each other for what like a few weeks? A month? So IMO it's like the equivalent to watching a stranger die, sure you feel bad about the loss of life but you really have no emotional connection to it. That's certainly how I feel as a viewer, I didn't know Abby, she's only been around for a few episodes so I just don't really care about her death (or non death since she's a vampire). We're not talking about aunt Jenna here.
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Old 02-17-2012, 08:40 AM
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Wonderful episode. I love the Original Family especially Klaus and Rebekah. I do wonder though if they are still bound together.

As I said in a previous thread, Damon needs to wash his hands of Elena and move on. Stop obsessing like he did with Katherine.

Loved the brother/sister scenes between Elijah & Rebekah and later at the end between Klaus and Rebekah. The siblings forging Klaus I can buy. Maybe the forgivness was too quick but I can see it.
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Old 02-17-2012, 08:52 AM
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Well holy hell, I honestly cant see how they cant have Bonnie get her Willow on and get some revenge on Damon/Stefan or stick around Mystic Falls after her mother and her grandmother die because of those two and Elena. They should atleast let her take away their freedom to walk in the sun. And why didnt the witches protect Bonnie and her mother?




They still took a life to save a life. Doesnt matter if they turned her, it was against her will. They would never turn Elena against her will even though it could have ended Klaus' hybrid plan.
Thank you! These two dudes did a freakin' coin toss to decide who should kill Bonnie and her mom. That shows how little they value the life of a girl who has helped them and saved them time and time again. And yet, Bonnie is supposed to jump up and down in future episodes to save them? Yeah, right.

And Bonnie's mom was not around that much, but your mother is STILL your mother. A good one, a bad one, an absent one. That is still your mother.
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Old 02-17-2012, 09:58 AM
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Bonnie should have every right to be mad and everyone should feel bad, but I don't see why people have to blame this on Damon and Stefan or they should be labeled as bad guys or why what they did is disgusting.

It's not like they jumped at the chance to kill the Bennett witches, heck, their first instinct was to find another way out of this so that they wouldn't have to attack Bonnie or Abby. The whole plan with daggering Kol was suppose to be their chance to stop Elijah's plan and to make sure no one else has to die. Turning Abby into a vampire was a last resort because they didn't have any other choice and they certainly were not going to let Elena die. They were backed into a corner in this one and Abby was the unfortunate collateral damage. It's not like anyone is cheering over this. They all realized this was bad, it was wrong, but there wasn't any other way.

I don't see what was disgusting about the coin toss scene or Damon turning Abby into a vampire. They did what they had to do to save Elena, they didn't have any other choice, they exhausted all their tactics trying to get another way but those didn't work and turning Abby was the only way.

If they were that cold and heartless and disgusting, they would have not blinked killing both Abby and Bonnie, but they spent all that time trying to find another way, and even in the end, they didn't attack Bonnie for Elena's sake and only turned Abby into a vampire, which is bad but at least she still has the chance to be alive even though as a vampire.

Both Stefan and Damon were trying their best to avoid a bloodshed and finding another way, so the plan wasn't the most perfect but what other choice did they have? At least this way, Abby still can have a chance without actually being gone for good, she can choose to be a vampire and still have time with Bonnie, it's not the best and most ideal, but she's still not gone for good.

Damon and Stefan were trying to make the best out of terrible choices, they were trying their best to avoid hurting people, and in the end it came down to turning Abby or letting Elena die, of course the choice would be clear. Abby could get another chance, but Elena wouldn't have that chance.

If this choice had been Bonnie's, I doubt she would have let Elena die anymore than Damon and Stefan. It's like what Caroline was saying to Elena, Bonnie would be furious and hurt and mad as hell as she should be, but she would still be glad to save Elena because she loves Elena and wouldn't have let her die.
Thank you. Well said.


Sure what Damon/Stefan did wasn't right but it wasn't has if they jumped at the chance to kill her. That exhausted their other options. It was a last result. Elena or a bennet? I can't blame Damon, I can't Blame Stefan, Im not gonna blame Elena or even Bonnie. I stand bye that both Elena and Bonnie are in this mess because of ancestors. A Bennet witch helped Ester with the spell to create her children into Vamps the original Doppelgangers blood was used in that spell. So yea Bonnie and Elena are in a big Mess. They have both lost a lot because of it. Grams, Mom, Aunt JEnna, Uncle John. Both girls have known pain and frustration at not really having a choice in some matters but being stuck in the middle because some thousand years ago some relative did something stupid.
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Old 02-17-2012, 10:03 AM
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I've been reading back and I just want to remind everyone to watch their tone - whether it's overtly sarcastic or when defending a character, just remember that there are other posters here that won't share your views but it's important to be respectful. And if you have a problem w/ a poster's post please PM a mod and we will take care of it.

The coin toss did sound like it was for Bonnie:
Quote:
Damon: You know what she would choose.
Stefan: She'd let herself be killed to save her friend.
Damon: Yup.
Stefan: If we do this, it will wreck her.
Damon: Oh she'll hate us. Thing is she only has to hate one of us. Only one of us has to do the actual deed.
but I guess they must have later figured instead to do Abby because Stefan said "I lost that coin toss, Damon. It should have been me who turned Abby, why'd you do it?" I'm not sure if it was a split second decision on Damon's part because it did kind of seem like Stefan went down there to kill Bonnie but then again he could have been trying to explain why he has to kill Abby but if Bonnie had figured out he was going to try and kill her, she could have stopped him sooo...I'm not sure when it became Abby instead of Bonnie. Either way Bonnie would have lost something: whether it's she who would have died or Abby or Elena, someone was going to get killed no matter what. I don't think Bonnie would have chosen for Elena to die, she was willing to die herself for Elena last season.
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Old 02-17-2012, 10:24 AM
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I've been reading back and I just want to remind everyone to watch their tone - whether it's overtly sarcastic or when defending a character, just remember that there are other posters here that won't share your views but it's important to be respectful. And if you have a problem w/ a poster's post please PM a mod and we will take care of it.

The coin toss did sound like it was for Bonnie:


but I guess they must have later figured instead to do Abby because Stefan said "I lost that coin toss, Damon. It should have been me who turned Abby, why'd you do it?" I'm not sure if it was a split second decision on Damon's part because it did kind of seem like Stefan went down there to kill Bonnie but then again he could have been trying to explain why he has to kill Abby but if Bonnie had figured out he was going to try and kill her, she could have stopped him sooo...I'm not sure when it became Abby instead of Bonnie. Either way Bonnie would have lost something: whether it's she who would have died or Abby or Elena, someone was going to get killed no matter what. I don't think Bonnie would have chosen for Elena to die, she was willing to die herself for Elena last season.
Yea, I watched the car scene over and tried to figure it out I still don't think they were ever going to Kill Bonnie. I think they were just trying to give the viewers that thought by being vague. But, who knows maybe off screen they realized we can just turn her mother.

I will try and watch my post too. Sorry. Sometimes in a haste to reply back when you were annoyed you don't think as you should.
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Old 02-17-2012, 10:45 AM
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And Bonnie's mom was not around that much, but your mother is STILL your mother. A good one, a bad one, an absent one. That is still your mother.
THIS. It doesn´t matter if we as a viewer only saw her for 5 minutes on screen or if she was away for 15 years she is her mother. She came back for her and to help her and the Salvatores. She turned away from this whole life as a witch because she was tired of regularly being dutied to hold the balance of nature and we saw what happened with Bonnie in only one year of her witchcraft. Abby was in it much longer and she fought against the one thing Klaus feared the most and for who he needed the help of the Salvatores to kill him. She and Bonnie suffer everytime the whole Bennett line has suffered because of this Original family and they had the opportunity to kill them all. ALL of them.

I cheered so much for Esther when she gave that speech to her sons, although it rubs me the wrong way how the writers went with this whole channeling of the witches power. Why couldn´t Bonnie and Abby do it and she gave the instructions.
Nevertheless she was on point with everything and I don´t give a dmn about Elijah realising afterwards that she was right and that he made a mistake. He was throughout the episode a better villain than Klaus but that letter to Elena ... please show stop with this nonsense. She only shows compassion when it comes to the small group of loved ones she has and most of them are guys who abused her or her friends in the past. So stop with this Elena is not a good person. She is very selfcentered and hypocritical and if the show would stood up to this flaws then I probably could like her more.

The Salvatores are the most horrible persons I have ever seen on screen and the worst of this is that they are the protagonists of this show. They are in no way selfless ... almost everyone on the showi is selfish with Bonnie being on of the only ones who thinks about the other people outside of the Scooby Gang.
I wasn´t surprised that the Salvatores would choose Elena over Bonnie because duh, I did watch three seasons of this hot mess, What surprised me and outraged me was the disrespect not only these two characters but also the writers (because they produced this horrible script) showed Bonnie and her mother. They flipped a coin to who is gonna do the "hard work". They never even considered what it would meant for Bonnie or for Abby, they would die the only thing they could think about was that Elena might hate them after this. If these are examples for caring or loving vampires on this show then I´m glad the witches hate them and I really wish that Esther and the Bennetts will find a way to erase this whole population of vampires from the planet (that will never happen).
And if the writers thought after this I could root for one of these two again ... then they are so stupid I can´t even describe.

Like I said earlier I want Bonnie to go against them and I don´t care what happens in the fandom because she has every right to light them on fire and dance on their remaining ashes.

And finally just a little observation: Two episodes ago I had to sit through at least 10-15 minutes of torture!Bill and Caroline scenes with them describing all the stages of the transition BUT this week when it comes to Bonnie I don´t even get one minute between mother and daughter.
I don´t know how Bonnie reacted when she found Abby lying on the floor in that house. Where the Salvatores still there? How did she get her mother out of this house? When did she call Caroline? How reacted Abby after she woke up and realised that she could become a vampire something a witch hates the most?
And why did this have to play out in the Forbes house ... why couldn´t we get something in the Bennett house? Caroline could have stayed there.
I won´t get answers for this questions because I saw the promo for next episode and they will probably not involve Bonnie in this. So thank you writers /sarcasm

As much as I loved Caroline for what she said to Elena because it was on point again, I wanted a reaction from Bonnie it didn´t even have to be her speaking with Elena they could have looked at each other seperated through the window or Caroline. But the writers don´t give me this, because they hate me. I have to accept this.

I can´t hate on Elena because everyone in this bar screws up most of the time, but I side-eye her for at least three things this episode:

1. Questioning Bonnie and her work with Esther - she is a witch she knows what has to be done. You are in no position to ask about her motives or how she works with anybody who is not you.

2. Mentioning that Elijah found a way to keep her alive in front of Bonnie is disrespectful. I know nobody cares for John anymore ... but he and Bonnie kept her alive and I didn´t see a thank you from her when it comes to Bonnie. So Elijah may have brought the magic elixir with him but it was made by witches and for Katherine and in the end he betrayed them so she doesn´t have to care about him anymore.

3. Telling Elijah the truth. Such a dumb decision because it brought this whole disaster on the Bennett witches.


I want all of the Originals dead and I don´t care about solution 1000th to kill Klaus I want them dead because of magic and not this stupid tree which the writers conveniently produce out of thin air.

Finn is probably the only one of that family that could stay and he is also the moral one not like everyone claimed Elijah.

I´m looking forward to the new development between Elena and Bonnie and I hope this gets much screentime.

That Meredith/Alaric reveal was so lame I can´t even that the writers decided to make this a cliffhanger. We all know that Alaric doesn´t die (although he should because he is useless).

Oh and that scene with the Salvatores bragging about their love for Elena and even after what we saw they have done never even saying one word about Bonnie #fail kill them with fire or like a good witch would say "Incendia"
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Old 02-17-2012, 10:57 AM
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The coin toss did sound like it was for Bonnie:


but I guess they must have later figured instead to do Abby because Stefan said "I lost that coin toss, Damon. It should have been me who turned Abby, why'd you do it?" I'm not sure if it was a split second decision on Damon's part because it did kind of seem like Stefan went down there to kill Bonnie but then again he could have been trying to explain why he has to kill Abby but if Bonnie had figured out he was going to try and kill her, she could have stopped him sooo...I'm not sure when it became Abby instead of Bonnie. Either way Bonnie would have lost something: whether it's she who would have died or Abby or Elena, someone was going to get killed no matter what. I don't think Bonnie would have chosen for Elena to die, she was willing to die herself for Elena last season.
I think they were being ambigious during the coin toss scene for audience's sake -so for a split second we'd think Stefan may actually kill Bonnie- but really it was about Abby all along. I don't see any reason for Damon or Stefan to think for a moment they need to kill Bonnie as they "only" need to break the Bennett line, which requires a witch being turned. "One" will do. And just like they'll choose Elena over anyone else, they'll choose Elena's best friend over the best friend's mother who is a total stranger to them all. I think they knew Elena would be wrecked regardless (and she was) becasue this is her friend losing her mother because of her. And she'd hate them for it and she'd have chosen to give up her life rather than see Bonnie's mother die. So, the conversation works when it is thought of as "Abby" and their later in the conversation where Stefan admits to knowing he lost the coin toss and Damon actually took the fall for him, he also says "it should have been me who turned Abby" which further suggests that was the plan.

And I believe they acted according to a plan, so they went in there each knowing what the other was to do. Bonnie was downstairs and Abby was upstairs, both standing where they were as they heard "noises". It was the usual Salvatore tag-team job from what I could see, where they divide the targets between them. Stefan was to be downstairs, distracting Bonnie (when she tries to move upstairs to go to Abby, he blocks her) while Damon turned Abby. Even Stefan's converstaion with Bonnie suggests he knew of the plan. He told her they had to stop Esther, Bonnie says it is impossible as she is channeling them -which they know. She then thinks Stefan is going to kill them and so tells him that won't work either as Esther will continue to channel them (as she can channel dead witches too). Which is when Stefan tells her he knows that too, which is why THAT isn't the plan, to plan is to break the Bennett line in which one "witch" is destroyed and although withces remain witches in death, they don't remain witches once turned. That is why Damon is upstairs turning Abby. It is all information Salvatores already knew. I am certain they went in there knowing what they had to do. The fact he is talking to her at all suggests to me it was just for distraction purposes. As she can easily mind-whammy him once she realizes he is about to attack her so if he was there to attack her at all, I think he'd go for the "surprise" factor like Damon did.


I really think the Salvatores found themselves in an impossible situation. They tried to kill the villains, but it didn't work. Then it was a choice between Elena and Bonnie's mom. No matter who they chose -regardless of their own personal preferences- a human WAS going to die that day and not because THEY wished it to or caused it to happen. It is sad and not Ok that Abby died, no, but I think it would be equally sad and not OK that Elena died. Yes her decisions and action in the last two episodes certianly has a hand in why things led to that point but I don't think it means she deserved to die (and one could say Bennetts knew the risks when they agreed to help and be involved). I think making a choice that Elena should have died is quite similar to making a decision on who was to live or die like Salvatores did, only the "preferences" are different so the choice is different.

I don't expect people who have decided to kill/turn someone talk about their victims' feelings. I don't think the two necessarily go together. I don't think Bonnie dwelled that much about the pain and suffering Mason is going to go through and what Tyler will feel when she aided the Salvatores in Mason's capture so he could be tortured and killed for being in league with Katherine and being a threat to Elena. They all have had to make hard choices and one of the ways you get things like that done is you try not to think too much on the victim. I think it makes sense. Doesn't mean they didn't know it was a horrible thing to do and a heavy burden thing carry. That was the whole point of the "coin toss" as they were all "no reason why we should both be responsible for this". That was the whole point of Damon deciding to do it in Stefan's stead despite winning the coin toss -he didn't want to add to Stefan's guilt. For this was a bad thing to do. It's not like they are not aware of that and are rather having a blast killing Abby and gleefully tossing a coin to decide who gets to have the honor of doing it. Both Damon and Stefan seemed to hate the situation they were in but this is the hand they were dealt and had to make the best off.

Btw, I just love that Damon knew Stefan was off human blood and "testing" him about it to make sure. I think they SHOULD know one another that well...
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Old 02-17-2012, 11:12 AM
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And Bonnie's mom was not around that much, but your mother is STILL your mother. A good one, a bad one, an absent one. That is still your mother.
Well for me I have to disagree on that b/c Abby was her mother in name only she wasn't her parent, she didn't raise her. IMO it's almost similar to Elena's relationship w/Isobel. Isobel was her "mother" b/c she gave birth to her but she wasn't her mother in the way that mattered. Like I didn't expect Elena to break down when Isobel died & I don't really think Bonnie should either. Like I said earlier I expect SOME sadness b/c it's always upsetting when someone dies but Abby abandoned Bonnie & they weren't close so I just don't see why THIS would wreck her & send her over the edge when grams dying didn't.

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Old 02-17-2012, 11:12 AM
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I hope we get an answer as to why the witches didnt protect Bonnie/Abby. That was their whole reason coming into the house.

And I hope somewhere this season we get something along the lines of "I love you Elena but if it comes down to me or you, im choosing me, ive lost enough"

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Well for me I have to disagree on that b/c Abby was her mother in name only she wasn't her parent, she didn't raise her. IMO it's almost similar to Elena's relationship w/Isobel. Isobel was her "mother" b/c she gave birth to her but she wasn't her mother in the way that mattered. Like I didn't expect Elena to break down when Isobel died & I don't really think Bonnie should either. Abby abandoned Bonnie & they weren't close so I just don't see why THIS would wreck her & send her over the edge when grams dying didn't.
If Bonnie had littlerly just met her mother and her mother left because of some half-assed reason I can see that. But the two were clearly getting to know each other all over again.
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