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Old 02-16-2012, 10:51 PM
  #46
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The coin toss was to decide which Salvatore would do the horrible deed of killing Abby and it wasn't even a real one, it was just Damon trying to fool Stefan as if "the coin" would decide which one of them got to do it while he has already decided he'd save little brother the horror and the burden and not add to his guilt and just do it himself so Stefan won't look bad in Elena's eyes and it won't be Stefan who'll receive her hate for this. It IS sad and yet hilarious that Damon would try to have a fake coin toss, thinking if he outright said "I'll do it" Stefan may insist on doing it himself, while Stefan was aware he "lost" the coin toss and Damon was lying but still allowed him to do it anyway. Oh, Damon... You needn't bother with the "tricks", Stefan will let you do the dirty work, don't worry...


The Salvatores had but two choices, let Elena die and all the Originals with her, or save Originals by killing one of the Bennett witches -thus making Esther not as powerful- so that Elena is also saved. Damon has always said he will choose Elena. He has also admitted he has a short list of people he genuinely cares for. I am pretty sure Bonnis's biological mother who they all met like 2 days ago is not on that list at all. Of course he'll choose Elena over Abby. Stefan used to claim with his vampirism his fault of caring too much was amplified or something but in his present "not ripper and not even drinking human blood but still very much not caring/pretending to be not caring" state I don't think he cares for other humans that much either. Besides everyone, including Bonnie will choose the person they love and have a friendship with over some stranger in a life and death situation. The only thing Salvatores could offer for Bonnie and Abby was giving Abby a chance to exist by turning her. The choice to become a vampire or not lies with her, though.

And yes, this ALL could have been prevented if Elena and Stefan only listened to Damon in the last episode instead of going behind him. But then, the same is true for Alaric. If he only listened to Damon's "the woman is psycho" warnings, he would probably not get shot... WHEN WILL THEY LEARN?

I swear Damon is the Cassandra of Mystic Falls. He keeps warning them all, saying "you are stupid, this is dangerous" and yet his warning gets being ignored and shrugged off because he is claimed to be too over-protective, mad, paranoid this or that. And here is the end result. And the beauty of it is, it still ends up being all his fault and he gets to be branded the bad guy eachtime too. Like WTH? He tries to "prevent" them from doing stupid things that will lead to bigger messes and tragedy - he is a bad guy. Then things go wrong and they come to him to fix things, and he tries to do the best with what he has, and then... he is once again the bad guy.
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:18 PM
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He hasn't turned back to himself yet. I think he is still fighting the guilt. If he was completely back to himself he would have argued more with Damon and the killing of a Bennet. Damon was just being Damon and deflecting any feelings he might be having thus the idea of the coin toss. TBH... and i might catch flack here but the coin toss didn't bother me. Yes, it was over ending a human life but no matter what decision they made Elena would have died. A human would be dead regardless so ofcourse they chose Elena. They tried another option with the staking of Kol first and when that didn't work that had to go with Plan B... and no matter how ugly and awful it seemed it was what it was... A lack of choice. So like i said... maybe something is wrong with me but i found the coin toss amusing.

They never specifically mentioned Bonnie. The said a Bennet i believe. Im not 100% sure... Ill have to do a rewatch but i know it was never said that it was Bonnie.

Sure Bonnie gets treated badly on this show... Can't argue that. Strangely I hated Bonnie's character so much at first but she grew on me. I think around the time Bonnie and Jer were together I really adored her.... But i can't feel bad for her. A lot of the time she puts herself in the middle. She can say no. Her Ancestors could have said no. Elena and Bonnie are both screwed because of their past ancestors and whatever involvement they had with Vampires. Sure Elena makes dumb decision but the blame isn't all on her
You r so right. Bonnie should have sat back and let Damon Stefan Etc deal with the originals themselves. Ugh Bonnie wanting to save lives. What's wrong with you!

What they did to Bonnie's mother was disgusting. They always come to Bonnie for help and she helps yet earns no respect from them. In the end they turn her mother into a vamp. That whole scene just disgusted me. With all Bonnie gives and all the lives she saves she deserves some happiness. I'm sick of this constant Elena Elena Elena garbage.

And Schumic please! Damon isn't always right. Almost everyones "plans" blow up in their face. Wasn't Damon the one who hide the moonstone in the soapdish.
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Schumiac (View Post)
The coin toss was to decide which Salvatore would do the horrible deed of killing Abby and it wasn't even a real one, it was just Damon trying to fool Stefan as if "the coin" would decide which one of them got to do it while he has already decided he'd save little brother the horror and the burden and not add to his guilt and just do it himself so Stefan won't look bad in Elena's eyes and it won't be Stefan who'll receive her hate for this. It IS sad and yet hilarious that Damon would try to have a fake coin toss, thinking if he outright said "I'll do it" Stefan may insist on doing it himself, while Stefan was aware he "lost" the coin toss and Damon was lying but still allowed him to do it anyway. Oh, Damon... You needn't bother with the "tricks", Stefan will let you do the dirty work, don't worry...


The Salvatores had but two choices, let Elena die and all the Originals with her, or save Originals by killing one of the Bennett witches -thus making Esther not as powerful- so that Elena is also saved. Damon has always said he will choose Elena. He has also admitted he has a short list of people he genuinely cares for. I am pretty sure Bonnis's biological mother who they all met like 2 days ago is not on that list at all. Of course he'll choose Elena over Abby. Stefan used to claim with his vampirism his fault of caring too much was amplified or something but in his present "not ripper and not even drinking human blood but still very much not caring/pretending to be not caring" state I don't think he cares for other humans that much either. Besides everyone, including Bonnie will choose the person they love and have a friendship with over some stranger in a life and death situation. The only thing Salvatores could offer for Bonnie and Abby was giving Abby a chance to exist by turning her. The choice to become a vampire or not lies with her, though.

And yes, this ALL could have been prevented if Elena and Stefan only listened to Damon in the last episode instead of going behind him. But then, the same is true for Alaric. If he only listened to Damon's "the woman is psycho" warnings, he would probably not get shot... WHEN WILL THEY LEARN?

I swear Damon is the Cassandra of Mystic Falls. He keeps warning them all, saying "you are stupid, this is dangerous" and yet his warning gets being ignored and shrugged off because he is claimed to be too over-protective, mad, paranoid this or that. And here is the end result. And the beauty of it is, it still ends up being all his fault and he gets to be branded the bad guy eachtime too. Like WTH? He tries to "prevent" them from doing stupid things that will lead to bigger messes and tragedy - he is a bad guy. Then things go wrong and they come to him to fix things, and he tries to do the best with what he has, and then... he is once again the bad guy.
Oh please. How ridiculous. Poor wittle itty bitty Damon I don't care what anyone says, Damon is a bad guy, for as much as he gets things right, he gets them wrong just as much. I don't feel sorry for Damon, Damon is a jerk and he deserves the hate he gets from people in MF.

Stefan doesn't allow Damon to do the dirty work. Damon takes pleasure in doing all the dirty things, because he obviously enjoys being the badder one. I cannot believe you would even suggest that Stefan would do that. Stefan is just the one that sacrifriced everything for Damon to save his brother's selfish idiotic ass. Rose coloured glasses are in use here.

Why are your posts always pitting Stefan against Damon. This isn't the place to spread the hate.
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:44 PM
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Oh please. How ridiculous. Poor wittle itty bitty Damon I don't care what anyone says, Damon is a bad guy, for as much as he gets things right, he gets them wrong just as much. I don't feel sorry for Damon, Damon is a jerk and he deserves the hate he gets from people in MF.

Stefan doesn't allow Damon to do the dirty work. Damon takes pleasure in doing all the dirty things, because he obviously enjoys being the badder one. I cannot believe you would even suggest that Stefan would do that. Stefan is just the one that sacrifriced everything for Damon to save his brother's selfish idiotic ass. Rose coloured glasses are in use here.
.
Seconding this wholeheartedly.
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:58 PM
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and yes, this all could have been prevented if elena and stefan only listened to damon in the last episode instead of going behind him. But then, the same is true for alaric. If he only listened to damon's "the woman is psycho" warnings, he would probably not get shot... When will they learn?

I swear damon is the cassandra of mystic falls. He keeps warning them all, saying "you are stupid, this is dangerous" and yet his warning gets being ignored and shrugged off because he is claimed to be too over-protective, mad, paranoid this or that. And here is the end result. And the beauty of it is, it still ends up being all his fault and he gets to be branded the bad guy eachtime too. Like wth? He tries to "prevent" them from doing stupid things that will lead to bigger messes and tragedy - he is a bad guy. Then things go wrong and they come to him to fix things, and he tries to do the best with what he has, and then... He is once again the bad guy.


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Old 02-17-2012, 12:04 AM
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You r so right. Bonnie should have sat back and let Damon Stefan Etc deal with the originals themselves. Ugh Bonnie wanting to save lives. What's wrong with you!

What they did to Bonnie's mother was disgusting. They always come to Bonnie for help and she helps yet earns no respect from them. In the end they turn her mother into a vamp. That whole scene just disgusted me. With all Bonnie gives and all the lives she saves she deserves some happiness. I'm sick of this constant Elena Elena Elena garbage.

And Schumic please! Damon isn't always right. Almost everyones "plans" blow up in their face. Wasn't Damon the one who hide the moonstone in the soapdish.
Okay, i wasn't saying Bonnie should just let people die at all. In fact i think the opposite. My point is that both Elena and Bonnie are in this mess because of who their ancestors are. The Bennets have been involved with Vampires since the beginning it seems and we know the original dopplegangers blood was used in the ritual to create the Vamps. So like i said Elena and Bonnie are both in the same boat. I don't think its eithers fault. Yes, Bonnie has lost a lot in helping Elena but all i meant is that their were times she had choices. She didn't have to do it. Bonnie lost her Grandma and now her mother (i use that term loosely because i can't seem to care for a woman who disappeared from her daughters life). At the same time though Elena lost Jenna and then John because of all this and before that she had already lost her parents. So can we really play the who has lost more card. Im not really defending Stefan and Damon's actions. They had to make a choice between two humans and ofcourse they are gonna choose Elena. Maybe the coin flip was insensitive but TBH i wasn't offended. We have seen so much worse on this show IMO. Hate my opinion all you want that just what i think. Damon for once i think was being selfless (well besides killing Abby b/c he loves Elena) he did the dirty work so Stefan wouldn't have too. I love when the brother have each others back like that. Any back on topic here, like Caro said in the speech Bonnie is happy Elena is alive but she always seems to be the one to suffer. Bonnie even knows on some level it was either her mother or Elena? Had her mom lived and Elena died would she still not be in the same pain. I'm sorry i guess i just don't see why every one is in a tizzy here. Bad things happen on TVD. Hell i don't see anyone crying wolf and making some huge thing about how both Jeremy and Alaric can't seem to keep a GF Alive?
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:09 AM
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It's not black and white. Damon doesn't do bad things because he wants to
and actually, he tried finding a way before all this happened - remember the whole plan to dagger Kol, so all of the originals gone and no one really has to die? It was the only option they had left, and from Damon's POV which I always, always defend, turning someone a vampire in order to save them is better than being dead. There was no other way, they were running out of time. Damon will always do anything to protect Elena, I can't believe he's getting hate.

As for the Salvatore brothers - I hate the line Stefan said to Damon early in the episode - and I don't believe it for one second and neither should Damon because it's not like Stefan's been around to know what's good for anyone. IMO.

Asena, I agree with your post!

Bonnie and Caroline both pissed me off this episode. Nothing much more I can say about that.

Klaroline is sweet.. whatever this thing is. even if it's one-sided.

Elena, I love you bb.

Alaric, stop killing this dude please.

All the awards --> Damon Salvatore.
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:22 AM
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Damon will always do anything to protect Elena, I can't believe he's getting hate.
I feel exactly the same way about Stefan!! I cannot believe that he is getting hate because Damon actually stepped the hell up and tried to prevent Stefan from doing something horrible. As if Stefan pushed Damon to do it Damon does things when he wants, how he wants and whenever he wants..

Now on with my post...

Klaus and Caroline are so damn cute!!! I mean seriously.. the banter was absolute sexiness and awesome-ness I want more.. I love seeing that side of Klaus come out.. it's too damn cute!!

Stefan.. what can I say... the man is flawed perfection He owns my heart and he always will. I adore him PAUL WESLEY IS THE MAN... he blows me away with how amazing he is

I didn't particularly enjoy the idea of killing Bonnie to save Elena.. but of course they were going to choose Elena.

I want the hiatus to be over now.. can it be please?? I need my Stefan dose everyweek
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:40 AM
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I feel exactly the same way about Stefan!! I cannot believe that he is getting hate because Damon actually stepped the hell up and tried to prevent Stefan from doing something horrible. As if Stefan pushed Damon to do it Damon does things when he wants, how he wants and whenever he wants..
it was both stefan and damon who agreed that abby had to "die" . it wasn't just one or the other's idea. if stefan had really wanted to kill abby, he could have, after all he did win the coin toss - damon just stepped up because he saw that stefan wanted to be his old self again - he noticed this when he left the glass of blood out and that stefan hadn't touched it. damon did it for stefan. he did it to save elena because he knew stefan couldn't.

damon being selfless and awesome and saving the day
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:51 AM
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it was both stefan and damon who agreed that abby had to "die" . it wasn't just one or the other's idea. if stefan had really wanted to kill abby, he could have, after all he did win the coin toss - damon just stepped up because he saw that stefan wanted to be his old self again - he noticed this when he left the glass of blood out and that stefan hadn't touched it. damon did it for stefan, he did it for elena.

damon being selfless and awesome and saving the day
But that logic works the same for Damon. I was simply stating that Stefan didn't push Damon to kill Abby.. Damon decided that for himself... Stefan isn't to blame for Damon's choice!! Was Damon being selfless for Stefan?? Yes... but there has been times when Stefan has been selfless for Damon aswell.
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:53 AM
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I never said Stefan is to blame for Damon's choice. It was all Damon, I agree. but the decision for Abby to die was both of theirs, Damon just carried it out. I won't get into a Stefan/Damon debate here.
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:55 AM
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I wasn't getting into a debate.. I was simply answering your post. I understand that the coin flip was both of their choice.
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:58 AM
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IA that it isn't so black and white.. its just one of those situations of "would you rather save someone you love or save a complete stranger" i can't fault Damon (or Stefan) for choosing someone they love over someone that they dont even know and came 2 episodes ago If it was reversed im sure Bonnie would sacrifice DS in a heartbeat to save Elena, it is what it is

overall episode was boring.. could careless about all the orignal business.. so glad most of them have fled.. maybe we can finally get some focus on other characters??

Damon is just flawless.. the most selfless person on this show IMO


Quote:
Originally Posted by Schumiac (View Post)
The coin toss was to decide which Salvatore would do the horrible deed of killing Abby and it wasn't even a real one, it was just Damon trying to fool Stefan as if "the coin" would decide which one of them got to do it while he has already decided he'd save little brother the horror and the burden and not add to his guilt and just do it himself so Stefan won't look bad in Elena's eyes and it won't be Stefan who'll receive her hate for this. It IS sad and yet hilarious that Damon would try to have a fake coin toss, thinking if he outright said "I'll do it" Stefan may insist on doing it himself, while Stefan was aware he "lost" the coin toss and Damon was lying but still allowed him to do it anyway. Oh, Damon... You needn't bother with the "tricks", Stefan will let you do the dirty work, don't worry...


The Salvatores had but two choices, let Elena die and all the Originals with her, or save Originals by killing one of the Bennett witches -thus making Esther not as powerful- so that Elena is also saved. Damon has always said he will choose Elena. He has also admitted he has a short list of people he genuinely cares for. I am pretty sure Bonnis's biological mother who they all met like 2 days ago is not on that list at all. Of course he'll choose Elena over Abby. Stefan used to claim with his vampirism his fault of caring too much was amplified or something but in his present "not ripper and not even drinking human blood but still very much not caring/pretending to be not caring" state I don't think he cares for other humans that much either. Besides everyone, including Bonnie will choose the person they love and have a friendship with over some stranger in a life and death situation. The only thing Salvatores could offer for Bonnie and Abby was giving Abby a chance to exist by turning her. The choice to become a vampire or not lies with her, though.

And yes, this ALL could have been prevented if Elena and Stefan only listened to Damon in the last episode instead of going behind him. But then, the same is true for Alaric. If he only listened to Damon's "the woman is psycho" warnings, he would probably not get shot... WHEN WILL THEY LEARN?

I swear Damon is the Cassandra of Mystic Falls. He keeps warning them all, saying "you are stupid, this is dangerous" and yet his warning gets being ignored and shrugged off because he is claimed to be too over-protective, mad, paranoid this or that. And here is the end result. And the beauty of it is, it still ends up being all his fault and he gets to be branded the bad guy eachtime too. Like WTH? He tries to "prevent" them from doing stupid things that will lead to bigger messes and tragedy - he is a bad guy. Then things go wrong and they come to him to fix things, and he tries to do the best with what he has, and then... he is once again the bad guy.
basically all of this
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Old 02-17-2012, 01:09 AM
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Episode was boring. The originals are just not that great. I am having trouble investing in any of them

Damon deciding that he would kill Abby instead of Stefan was a tad condescending and I can't help but think he just did that so he could hold it over Stefan's head at a later date Damon has been annoying me for awhile now. I don't know if it's the writing or if I have just become intolerant of his childish behaviour.

Stefan is a blessing as usual. I find him to be the only bright spot in all these drab episodes.

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Agreed so much, Nikki

And the worse, Klaus and Caroline. Get away from my Caroline, Klaus. When are they going to give Stefan and Caroline some scenes
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Old 02-17-2012, 01:24 AM
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Bonnie should have every right to be mad and everyone should feel bad, but I don't see why people have to blame this on Damon and Stefan or they should be labeled as bad guys or why what they did is disgusting.

It's not like they jumped at the chance to kill the Bennett witches, heck, their first instinct was to find another way out of this so that they wouldn't have to attack Bonnie or Abby. The whole plan with daggering Kol was suppose to be their chance to stop Elijah's plan and to make sure no one else has to die. Turning Abby into a vampire was a last resort because they didn't have any other choice and they certainly were not going to let Elena die. They were backed into a corner in this one and Abby was the unfortunate collateral damage. It's not like anyone is cheering over this. They all realized this was bad, it was wrong, but there wasn't any other way.

I don't see what was disgusting about the coin toss scene or Damon turning Abby into a vampire. They did what they had to do to save Elena, they didn't have any other choice, they exhausted all their tactics trying to get another way but those didn't work and turning Abby was the only way.

If they were that cold and heartless and disgusting, they would have not blinked killing both Abby and Bonnie, but they spent all that time trying to find another way, and even in the end, they didn't attack Bonnie for Elena's sake and only turned Abby into a vampire, which is bad but at least she still has the chance to be alive even though as a vampire.

Both Stefan and Damon were trying their best to avoid a bloodshed and finding another way, so the plan wasn't the most perfect but what other choice did they have? At least this way, Abby still can have a chance without actually being gone for good, she can choose to be a vampire and still have time with Bonnie, it's not the best and most ideal, but she's still not gone for good.

Damon and Stefan were trying to make the best out of terrible choices, they were trying their best to avoid hurting people, and in the end it came down to turning Abby or letting Elena die, of course the choice would be clear. Abby could get another chance, but Elena wouldn't have that chance.

If this choice had been Bonnie's, I doubt she would have let Elena die anymore than Damon and Stefan. It's like what Caroline was saying to Elena, Bonnie would be furious and hurt and mad as hell as she should be, but she would still be glad to save Elena because she loves Elena and wouldn't have let her die.
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