Schumiac

I guess that is where we disagree. I think the DS are both "childish" when they go into their bickering mode but that has more to do with them being brothers and that is not necessarily a dynamic that is always mature so I can understand it.

I absolutely loved his "go to hell" moment and didn't find it childish but a declaration of his anger and refusal to bow down to a ridiculous demand. To be honest, the whole "mommy demands you apologize to this man" feel to the scene was childish for me, as in they WERE being treated like children and he rebelled to it.

Him snapping Jeremy's neck was not him having a childish reaction but "snapping" himself. I think there is a difference between childish "petulant" behavior and one where a person has lost all control of themselves.

I find Damon to react to people the way they approach him. If they approach him calm and intending to talk to him, he does it. But if they are being rude to him or hurting him, he then responds in kind.

Given how Damon is treated as the "go to" guy by them for protection and to get things done and has done so much to keep Elena and her loved ones safe I'd say she has plenty to respect him for and does so. Their relationship not being as close (debatable) as before is really irrelevant. You can hate someone's guts and still "respect" them due to some of their qualities.

Stefan wouldn't be worried about Damon and Elena if he thought his brother had nothing to offer and it really wouldn't get under his skin when Damon mentioned Elena. The whole "fight" kind of refers back to the last episode where Damon saved the day and then told Stefan off when he tried to criticize him even for that, pointing out Stefan was useless and Damon, in turn, got things done. In that speech Damon also admitted he was willing to make Elena hate him in the process. This episode Stefan was "taking revenge" for that comment as it hurt him - because deep inside he believes it to be true himself. Just like Stefan's "she doesn't respect you" comment hurt Damon because he has self-worth issues.

Stefan knows Damon is not pursuing Elena. He doesn't put the moves on her, he last episode admitted he was letting her hate him and didn't mind being the bad guy and he has Andie. So he knows Damon's words were just that, empty words. But Stefan was hurt from last night and he was looking for a way to get his own "hurtful words" in so he seized the opportunity, pressing further in (before they came to that point Damon tells him to leave him alone, actually). Actually, if I had any doubts about whether Damon's words in last episode "sting" Stefan or not, I had my proof in this one, with his actions.

HappySquared

Red Dragon

I pretty much always agree with you, but in this case, it isn't like Elena treated Damon wrongly. He boiled over about a situation that was out of Elenas control: a) she hadn't been misleading Damon, it was Katherine who had kissed him, and Elena hadn't acted inappropriately with him before b) Elena didn't realise that "it'll always be Stefan" - which was just her expressing her feelings - was exactly the words Katherine had used c) since Damon was pretty much forcing himself on her, she really didn't have a chance to calmly talk to him about it.

I understand why Damon "killed" Jeremy, and I agree that "childish" really isn't the word to describe it, but I think saying Damon treats people the way he gets treated is giving Damon too much credit. He is pretty much a loose canon sometimes, and who knows what he'll do when he repeatedly doesn't get what he wants. I'm hoping it is something he will grow out of as he gets more accustomed to not always just taking/getting whatever he wants.


Absolutely! Especially the fact that Stefan chose the word "protect" to describe what he'll do for Elena, which was exactly what Damon had done last week and exactly what Damon had said Stefan couldn't/wouldn't do. Personally, I think that Stefan WOULD do just about anything to protect her...just like I think that Elena DOES for the most part respect Damon. Damon and Stefan were both hurting each other in the most vulnerable parts of their heart.

That's for sure..Stefan definitely felt threatened, and that is why he "stepped up his game" this week, even if some of it was bluster. I even think that Stefan attacking Klaric was rooted in what Damon said last week. I thought Stefan seemed way more aggressive this week, and I don't think it was just escalated concern for Elena. All part of the brotherly competition.

Schumiac

It is possible my sentence about how Damon's reaction depends on how people approach him has come after talking about the Jeremy instance but it was not in reference to that, it was a general statement - like if they are rude to him or taking digs at him, he responds in kind; if they're dismissive, he reacts appropriately; if they're antagonistic likewise etc.

Jeremy instance is different as it was not his reaction to Elena's "treatment" of him, it was a build-up of lots of things. His talk with Elena and her rejection was the final point, the finale blow which saw him snap. His state of the time and how the whole thing build up makes it an exceptional case.

But that doesn't mean when people are being calm and talking to him properly, he doesn't respond in kind. Alaric tells him off sometimes too but he does it in a friendly, caring manner and not in a superior, demeaning, sneering one so him, Damon listens. Same with Elena. For example when Elena came to talk to him to make him agree to work with them for the tomb opening, she wasn't afraid to tell him she was not going to apologize for not betraying him, but her general talk, which showed understanding (as opposed to accusation and pointing fingers) made him agree with her. Damon is very much on his guard and uses humor and snark for that purpose but when people talk to him like adults, and are open, respectful and understanding, even if they are "criticizing" him or "telling" him to do something he listens to it, is reasonable about it and does it if he also agrees they are right. But when people approach him treating him as if he is someone beneath them, scolding him and putting him down constantly he is not likely to respond well to that and I don't know why he should.

elena-damon-stefan

i completely agree damon will not act nicely if someone is trying to degread him
he acts in a mean manner when someone has done something bad to him which really i think others should understand as well
damon does have a good side and in the episodes we do see this
i think that deep down he is a good/nice person but just dont be mean to him or make him feel small cause then your in for it , damon has been alive for a long time and people have been harsh to him so he has just had enough of it and doesnt want to take it anymore and i dont see why he should

sunchick116

I think Damon needs that tough love tactic and i frankly wish more people would use it on him. that's why i love his dynamic with Bonnie-she treats him like the adult he is and holds his responsible for his crap as it should be. I've always thought the whole 'eye for an eye' treat someone they way they treat you tactic is in itself immature.

Damon's actions don't match up with his words. if he wants people's respect he has to do things to earn their respect. Stefan has always supported Elena and respected her. Damon has done nothing but rebel against everyone. he doesn't deserves anyone's respect. he has to learn to behave accordingly and he refuses. he wants everyone to love him and he's not lovable yet, IMO.

Red Dragon

Schumiac - I think we're in complete agreement. I was mostly just seeking clarification, and you clarified your perspective.

sweet_zelda

That was a waste of an episode, in my opinion. I've written a long rant about it here, and other than that I have nothing to say, I guess. It's not pretty, so beware if you know that you usually don't agree with me

Thank God Elijah is back, but he was the only good thing about it.

eternalfate

I agree with that whole part of the post. I used the word 'childish' cause it is in my POV. Do you know how a kid acts when they ask their guardian for something and they say no? they act out. That's how I see Damon, when something doesn't go his way or he's hurting he acts out and that's something I want him to grow with. That's why I did say I respected what he did in the last episode, where he knew he was going to kill Andie but he just made her go away.

I agree Damon surely does not treat others the way he wanted to get treated. Jeremy is a great example of that. He snaps his neck and then he seems to act even meaner to Jeremy. which I don't quite understand....luckily Jeremy seems to really like Damon all the time, no matter what he does.

I agree with you, the whole post. II agree he does need tough love, everyone seems to expect everyone to be careful with their words around Damon or his heart will be broken. it's getting really old now.

semmanclana

AGREE!

And along with Jeremy lest add those couple sin the beginning of S1, Caroline, Bonnie, Vicki, Vicki's friends, Lexi, that girl that pulled over to help him this season, those towns people that were killed later, are all Damon's victims!

So the notion that Damon just acts in a mean manner when someone has done something bad to him is so not true.

Schumiac

There is a difference between Damon being a non-humanity having/non-human loving vampire and hunting humans etc and how he reacts to people he loves and cares for. Obviously, I'm talking about his reaction to those around him who are his friends/family and their treatment of him. I don't think vampires in a human hunting mode generally care if the human in question is nice, mean this or that. Her/him being human -as in food- and there and then usually does it, just like it did for Stefan during his human blood drinking/human hunting days or even when he "snapped" and lost it during present time as he found it so hard to keep the human blood craving in check after getting a taste again. It is not like poor Amber was mean to him, either. And his 1864 victims didn't look that rude or mean, either.


Damon and Jeremy had a nice moment when they talked about their parents actually, after his neck-snap, when he showed up in Salvatore house intending to kill Damon. Jeremy's general calm and "reaching out" behavior in that scene broke down Damon's defenses and accepting that he is treating him wrong in his initial "stay away from me" nastiness during that scene, he snapped out of it returned it in kind in the end. That seems to be why Jeremy is able to get along well with Damon... I doubt Damon is his most favorite person ever but they seem to have reached an understanding during their "parents" talk.

Brucas <3

ICA

heartlines

And that's exactly where they differ. Stefan knows that to kill aimlessly and without remorse makes him a monster, but Damon still thinks that he can kill who he wants and be on the side of good - he can't. He needs to realise that his behaviour isn't ever going to win him any friends and the more people keep acting like it's normal for him to do that, then the longer he'll be a danger. Everyone keeps talking about what is expected from a vampire, and while it's true to a certain extent that they kill and see humans as food/play things, I don't see any of them trying to pretend that they're really good deep down inside, either, or blaming their vampire nature on their inner ~pain.

He can have it one way and one way only, he either stops killing people and hurting the people around him or he's going to be forever labelled as a monster.

Schumiac

He doesn't think that, he just happens to be in a state of transition where he is "neither"- he is not the uncaring, unfeeling "bad" vampire he used to be but he is also not the human-friendly good vampire which has all its vampiric urges under control. That is why he doesn't see himself as "worthy" of Elena and is in so much struggle over it as his nature pushes him to kill but he wants to be good and it is so hard and painful to embrace the humanity and not just give into the vampire side. That is also why he decided to use Andie the way he does, as a means of "distraction" where he satisfies his vampire side somehow so he is not all "turn-up" right now between wanting to be better and wanting to give in to the vampire urges as he needs to have his act together and his mind focused on "saving" Elena. It does look like in the meanwhile he continues to show more growth though as he resisted killing Andie, which show a better control of that particular vampire urge.

heartlines

So, Damon's free to kill and maim people if he likes to because he can't get it together and control himself? If Damon wanted a distraction, he could have used Andie as a date without sleeping with her and feeding on her - but he didn't.

I get liking 'bad' vampires, I adored Spike in Buffy before he joined the Scooby gang, but there is no way around Damon being a monster - it doesn't matter if he's not going around town killing everybody who moves, it matters that he's still victimising people and feeding off them when he has blood bags. He's not a good person and somebody on this show needs to point that out to him more often.