sunchick116

exactly. if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, ITS A DUCK. call a spade a spade and call it a day.

Brucas <3

Damon doesn't like to kill people.

His scene with Andie showed exactly that- his struggle with being a vampire and trying to find the line between his vampire and humane side. I was so proud of him for getting himself under control and holding on to what humanity he could find and compelled her to go. Andie wanted to sleep with him, he didn't raped her and she wanted to be there for him.

heartlines

Damon got a slap in the face when Stefan pointed out that Elena would never respect him because he uses people without any thought for their feelings/wants - that's why he struggled there. I think Damon does like killing people - or did - but before he stops for good and doesn't use anybody else for his own enjoyment/distraction, it doesn't matter what he feels when he uses people, he still does it.

elena-damon-stefan

i agree he doesnt want to kill people that much anymore

since he met elena his human side is coming out more and as we have seen yes he bit andie but he stopped and told her to leave showing he didnt mean it and he wanted her to go before he did something else he would regret, if that was damon before he met elena then he would have just killed her on the spot and then would have moved on to someone else instead

its true what they say elena does bring out the best in him and he is trying his best to not kill

but sometimes the vampire in him becomes too much and he looses control but then afterwards he feels bad and regrets it but to hide his saddness he mocks people so they dont see that it has gotten to him and he still looks strong

Schumiac

She is a distration as in he is able to satisfy his vampire urges through her (the biting & feeding) which in turn makes him feel less torn between his two states -the part that is driven by vampire insticts and the part that is driven by a wish to be good- and he is in a more stable condition and can focus on dealing with Klaus/saving Elena.

It doesn't mean he is free to kill and main people. His reason for using Andie for it was to use her to "limit" such activities and get things more in control as he realized he needed to get his act under his control and he doesn't have the luxury of time or a mentor to figure out how to do it. He had to have his "mind" on Klaus and saving Elena, he can't focus on himself, his inner struggle right now, so he found a temporary fix. It doesn't make his treatment of Andie right, but it also doesn't change the reason he is doing it is because he wants to get his "bad" side under control somehow. And given he didn't kill Andie and was able to control himself and actually didn't even want to hurt her and kept asking her to leave and was in tears for momentarily snapping and hurting her, he is definitely improving in the whole "control the killing" urge part and cares more now and is not some monster who is getting a kick out of hurting others and lives only for that and is not doing anything to stop.

He is a VAMPIRE. Vampires do not change on the spot. It is not as easy as quitting smoking so them having "blood bags" doesn't matter. AS Stfan himself explained, it is not about "needing blood to live on". They are predators, they enjoy hunting, they are programmed to hunt and kill and it is THAT urge that needs to be controlled. Having blood bags don't change it. It takes time and effort and is going to be an everyday struggle. Stefan has Lexie to show him he could (should) be good and helping him about it. He has 145 years of working on it. And STILL we saw him snap just because he drank human blood. And he admitted he struggles everyday and has had relapses along the way, meaning he was "good " and turned "bad" again because the instincts are just THAT strong. Damon has been living like a vampire for 145 years and it is only now he is starting to change to be a "good" vampire and get his vampire instincts under control. And he is doing it all alone. Of course it is going to be difficult. Of course it will take time. Of course it will be a struggle. What he needs is not someoen to kick him when he is down, but help. Support like the one Stefan got. Support like the one Stefan gave Caroline. Going "you are evil, you suck, you are worthless" constantly to him when he is trying to be "good" is NOT going to help. BUT it makes me even more proud of him that despite all that he is slowly improving. It is funny. Stefan, when talking to Elena about how he is the "good" vampire, has told to her saying he has done it alone, probably to win points as that just comes out more impressive. We then found out, it is not true and it was Lexie who has guided him and shown him support. And here is Damon, actually doing it alone, just like Stefan once claimed he did.

fire for a heart

so trevor klaus and elijah are related?they all liked kat too?

this episode was a bit confusing need to rewatch
as last time i was in a rush

You can't kill me!

Can I ask.. when have they called Damon worthless or that he sucks?? They have called him evil on occassions.. when HE is doing something evil. Also Stefan didn't need to win any points with Elena.. because the first moment she saw Stefan she was pretty much hooked. Also that is probably a mistake the writers made NOT Stefan!!

Sternbetrachter

if I were treated like Damon was by his father and then had my brother often look down on me for behavior he once himself engaged in ... I'd feel worthless

anyway, since there was talk about Stefan secretly feeding Elena vampire blood without her knowledge, it made me think:
is Elena still letting Stefan feed from her? if yes, does that mean she has cuts all over her arm from letting Stefan feed daily or does Stefan give her some of his blood for her to heal (and what kind of disgusting medicine woudl that be?)

delenalove

They not actually have to say to him that he's worthless, but the way they act can make him feel worthless. Honestly, if I was in Damon's shoes I would feel worthless. Why? Because then that would mean always being in brother's shadow when it comes to father, always second best when it comes to the women he loves, always told he's "stupid", never believing he's done anything good... the list is endless.

You can't kill me!

But that is so childish.. it would be like Stefan taking all the horrible things Damon says to him and using that as an excuse to get away with all the horrible things Damon does. It doesn't make sense.. he doesn't take any other advice from his brother, but when Stefan shoves some snarkiness back at him he takes that to heart?!! I personally think Damon uses Stefan as his crutch, when something goes wrong it's Stefan's mean words that made him do it.. blah, blah, blah. I really don't get Damon's thinking

delenalove

But the point is, Stefan has always had people to love him and have faith in him: his father, Katherine, Elena, etc. Who's Damon had?

You can't kill me!

Damon has always had his brothers love and I know that lots of people have different interpretations of the brothers relationship including me, but the fact is is that Stefan has always loved Damon.. even idolised him in a way. Katherine's way of loving someone isn't the healthiest thing ever, so she really doesn't count.. Katherine loves screwing with both the brothers and even though she says she loves Stefan, I have yet to actually see her prove it. And their father may have favoured Stefan but he showed him no mercy when he shot Stefan.. did he?!! That no love excuse is exactly that.. an excuse.. it is just a way for Damon to say that is the reason he is like that and for people to excuse his outbursts and killing sprees

Damon's way of looking at love is extremely skewed..

Damon wanting to change is centered on someone else. He doesn't want to change for himself, and he until now, it probably didn't even occur to him that he had done anything wrong. Not if the purpose is because of love.

I always thought love was suppose to make you a better person. But Damon does all these horrid things in the name of love. It leaves me entirely perplexed at his character.. I just don't get him.

delenalove

Katherine's love for Stefan was definately selfish, but she still very much prefered Stefan to Damon as was made clear. If Katherine was forced to pick Stefan or Damon to live we know who she'd pick... hence making Damon feel second best which isn't a great feeling.

I disagree that Damon thought what he was doing is right. We have to remember that he is a vampire and vampire's instincts are to kill and whilst Stefan had back-up like Lexi to help him through being a vampire and to make him a "good" vampire, there was no one there to help Damon and so he's become "bad".

I also disagree that love makes you a better person- it can make you want to be a better person, but changing is hard and I'm sure when you've been used to a certain way of living for over 100 years it's hard to change. Changing can't happen over night and it involves baby sits. Sometimes we go straight forward- as Damon has done- and sometimes we go backwards but if we are determined to change it can happen and that's why JP/KW have said Damon has a long journey. I'm pretty sure he won't be the definition of "good" till like the last season or ever episode.

You can't kill me!

But being someone's second choice doesn't give anyone the right to behave like Damon.. I can just imagine if the shoe was on Stefan's foot, I doubt people would be making as many concessions as they make for Damon.. it is a copout to use that as an excuse.

Damon was already predispositioned to evil sorts of ways.. I mean even when he was human he was doing horrible things in the name of his love for Katherine.. Damon has an incredible mean streak and I don't think it has anything to do with people wanting to help him or not. If you want to change then make the choice to change.. if Damon actually cared enough to put the effort in then maybe people would start helping him... Damon is like a wild animal.. you never know how he is going to react to something, he can be extremely dangerous, Damon needs to draw strength from inside to curb that and then people will start to take him wanting to be good seriously and help him!!

His whole wanting to change stems on him being 'in-love' with Elena, yet all his choices involve her getting hurt in some way.. whether it be emotionally or physically.. aslong as Elena doesn't die.. Damon doesn't care and he has said that. I don't see that as love.. I see it as possessive or an unheathly obssession.

Schumiac

Exactly. You don't have to tell them "you are worthless" in exact words to make them feel like that. The way you treat them, heck even your expressions can give such a message and I doubt Stefan's "I'll approach you with a sentence mocking/demeaning you and then will scold/preach you" approach btw, talk about childish ) is making Damon feel loved or appreciated or anything. It adds A LOT to the distance and hostility between the brothers though.

Human Damon was not mean or anything. Even Katherine describes him as being sweet. The man wouldn't even stay in the army. And Katherine, when she first met Stefan dis say she thinks he'd play "harder" and Stefan himself said as a vampire he was worse. All we say was ONE instance in which Katherine got Damon to lay down to help her hunt, to "teach him" how to be a vampire. He was positively scared and disgusted afterwards, meaning it was the first time he witnessed such a thing, not something they did all the time. For Damon, at the time, vampires were the ones who were "oppressed" most probably because he looked at Katherine and saw a lovely woman, no different than a human, who just happened to drink blood to live. On the other hand, his father -who has never been good to him and he thought very little of- and his merry band of Founder Families were talking of killing them all just for existing (we know the "kills" they were running into were NOT of the vampires doing but the werewolf, George Lockwood's. Even the vampires were wondering who it was that was doing this.) Damon fell in love with a vampire who he thought was good and wanted to spend an eternity with her and believed she loved him too and that he was her "one". For that purpose he was willing to become a vampire too (a choice Lexie's boyfriend made too, for example). The thing is Katherine was NOT worth it, something he found out later on. Btw, how "mean" and evil Katherine is NOW is not a sign of how she was back in the day with them. Given she made them BOTH fall in love with her head over the heads (till she revealed herself to be a vampire, Stefan was declaring her his one true love on his own) and even got Papa salvatore to like her she sure knew how to behave normal, proper and good. Once Damon saw her "true" face, he was no longer in love with her anyway.


And I'd think once his mother died Katherine was the one person who showed him love and appreciation. Stefan's "love" doesn't work much as he is the younger brother and his allegiance lied with their father first so their father came FIRST for Stefan. Even now, he is his father's son. Katherine, on the other hand, made Damon believe he was the "one" for her, the person she loved so much that she wanted to spend an eternity with and made him feel really loved and appreciated. So of course she was special for him.

Without Lexie's presence it is highly doubtful Stefan, who was worse a vampire than Damon (by his own admission) was going to be able to learn how to resist vampire nature and be good. We know Damon was not happy with how he was behaving and was an example of "how to be better" at the time but it wasn't useful. I think Lexie being a stranger, a female and a vampire was what made the difference. If she was human, he was just going to feed on her and move on. But he couldn't kill her. He had just met "one of his own kind" who was a female. Being lonely he was happy to find this "friend". And his new friend did not approve of his ways (he was embarrassed when he took her home and she was disgusted with all the corpses he had lying around) which made him want to change. She even told him "we'll have to change this". So it is not like Stefan one day woke up and decided he'll be good from now on and was good. It was Lexie who gave him his wake-up call by telling him "this won't do" and it was her guidance that thought him how to change. Now, his love for Elena as well as "settling" in a town and starting to make friends and coming to care for the town is how Damon's "switch" went off. No one "told" him to do it, it happened on its own, taking him by surprise. And now he wants to be a better person, even though he has no "hope" of winning her. So it is not just something he is doing for Elena, he has given up on her, but it didn't result in him going back to his old ways or just leaving town to have fun. He is in town, improving slowly as he starts to control his vampire killing instincts better, and putting his own life in line to save them all. Seeing some appreciation and love is not really asking much. Though I think he would even settle for the constant demeaning and preaching to stop too. Which is why I LOVE that he has told Stefan last episode and told them all off this episode. It shows he is standing up for himself now and won't take such rude and unfair treatment of himself silently. It is an improvement as far as his self-worth issues go.

Also, Elijah's over involves the SACRIFICE taking place. Meaning:
A werewolf (Tyler?)
A vampire (Caroline, one of the Salvatore -after all ALL Elijah promised is they don't come to harm from HIS hands-)
and Elena being sacrificed.
That is 2 certain deaths and "Elena maybe dying".
Then, Bonnie attacks Klaus. Elijah made NO PROMISE she would survive. Heck, he didn't even say there was a chance she'd survive. He only said a powerful enough witch can take down Klaus, which is ALL they ever knew. So that is still "Bonnie possibly dying"
In total Elijah's plan is: 2 certain deaths (who can both be Elena's friends), Elena maybe dying, Bonnie maybe dying.

Damon's plan did NOT have the sacrifice happening. So the only person in danger was Bonnie. It could lead to death for Bonnie's death.

I'd say for someone who has no attachment to anyone, the plan that is less risky and sees less deaths IS Damon's plan. It was the better plan.
Elena, revived Elijah thinking they could use the DAGGER to kill Klaus and was hoping she could convince Elijah to work with them and tell him they could use the dagger to kill Klaus. She found out HOW WRONG the decision was when the dagger proved useless as she had just revived an old enemy and then given him their only weapon to kill him to find out it didn't work. In her surprise she immediately revealed Bonnie being alive to him too (he knows Bonnie, he'd know it is who she means when she says "I know a witch"). The fact she totally ignores the werewolf and vampire sacrifice is a hint of how she has NOT thought this through and of course not, she was already frantic and her hopes were crushed when she found out the dagger was useless and Bonnie WAS the only weapon. As they can NOT do anything to Elijah (especially with the dagger gone) she was no more in a situation to really bargain with him and is just going along with his plan just like she did before when she agreed to let him kill her in exchange for saving her friends. She is focused on saving Bonnie, so she is disregarding the danger to herself and to others she loves. Someone whose "priority" is Bonnie may be make Elena's decision, where she is risking herself and sending 2 others to their death just to save Bonnie.

Bonnie is NOT Damon's priority even if he meant to do everything to keep her alive. Nor does it have to. It is Elena he loves so of course it is Elena's survival that is his priority (though his plan saw LESS people in danger, regardless). So he was willing to let Bonnie die taking down Klaus (inevitable, as she is the only one) if it meant saving Elena.

It comes down to who loves who more. Elena loves Bonnie more than anyone so he is risking a lot of lives, including hers, just to save her. Damon loves Elena a lot so he would risk his and Bonnie's life to save her. And Stefan just does whatever Elena tells him to do.