Ron_Beckett

Really enjoyed this episode.

The whole storyline with Isobel & Elena was tragic. You could finally see that Isobel really wished she had been the mother her daughter deserved but the vampire side dimished all human feelings and emotions. And how tragic to take Elena to her gravestone only to die there. It was a major sacrifice as she wanted to spare Elena from more pain.

Really enjoyed the Bonnie storyline but it's sad that she might end up having to be a martyr in order to destroy an original.

The story with Matt and Caroline was sad. Although I gotta admit I kind of like the whole thing of it not becoming another Elena/Stefan storyline. It's cool to see a romance where one does not accept the other. I look forward to Matt playing along since "Caroline made him forget" but I'm sure it will be hard for him.

And what about the Sheriff, will she kick her daughter out or like Matt will she go on pretending?

Glad this show is back and it keeps getting better.

Advo

How is it John's fault exactly? John didn't even ask Isobel to come - though if he had, it was because he was under the impression that she wanted to help Elena. John has never tried to "cause problems and force Alaric" out for *****s and laughs. He did it because he wanted his ring back. In fact, John didn't even deserve to be punched by Alaric because it was Isobel who decided to reveal herself to Jenna because she was jealous. Could it be that John is actually right, and they should have told Jenna the truth? At the very least for her protection? But no, let's all just blame John.

And how is it his fault that Alaric was captured? As if he could have stopped Isobel and the witch from capturing Alaric anywhere. They weren't even in the Gilbert house, so it sure ain't because John invited Isobel in. I get that people like to see John as the all-around bad guy because *gasp* he dares to be a jerk to the Salvatores, but perhaps he's not... dare I say it? actually trying to get people killed? Vamps maybe, but not people.

Black_Betty

If John hadn't started planting seeds in Jenna's mind about Isobel's death, I'd agree. But frankly, once he went there the damage was done. There was no "give me my ring and I'll square things away with Jenna for you" (not that he's ever had that kind of credibility with Jenna anyway). He brought it up to bring it up. Isobel used John and married Alaric. Jenna dated John but then became happily involved with Alaric. Elena is his daughter/niece but she much prefers Alaric. It just stinks of petty jealousy to me. Because I keep going back to 'why bring up Isobel's death if crap-starting isn't his goal' and I can't come up with a reasonable answer.

And I assumed John knew Isobel was in town by not only his complete lack of surprise to see her but also because he told Elena to hear her out, that she had info. To me that suggests he knew she was coming. And it's too convenient that he started that Isobel/Alaric/Jenna stuff right before Isobel shows up.

I've actually previously defended John for those very reasons on this board, so while I get that some people just hate John I'm not one of them.

Advo

Okay. What if John has never mentioned Isobel to Jenna at all. You don't think Jenna would have been shocked and crushed to learn about her being alive and having been lied to this whole time by people she love, which Elena and Alaric admitted to? Perhaps John is jealous. In fact, he most likely is. That does not mean he wants Alaric to die. At no point has John ever wanted a human to die. People are jealous all the time. That doesn't mean they try to kill them. His goal was the ring, and he got it back through emotional blackmail. Was that a shady move? Sure. But hell, I would probably have done something like that. You give a protective ring to the woman you love and she give it to the man whom she loves. That would piss me off too and I would want the ring back. But it speaks volumes to me that he gave his brother's to Jeremy instead of holding on to that one.

How do you know John wasn't surprised to see Isobel? We never saw his reaction so you are just guessing. In fact, what he said was something along the lines of Isobel told me she wanted a do-over, so hear her out. And again, even if he did know, so? He was under the impression that she was working with him to protect their daughter. THAT we do know because that's what Isobel told Katherine and it's what John admitted to Elena. Furthermore, Isobel said she revealed herself to Jenna out of pettyness. So again, how is it John's fault?

UNsweetT

Forwood4Bamon

Last night's episode was wow. I loved the stefan and elena and the damon parts of it. Bonnie was crazy lol and Matt and Caroline scenes I loved as well. I like Alaric too. I am glad my two otps were in last night's episode.

Caliina

- I can't say i can really blame Matt for what he did...(it's not really any different from what Tyler did), he has been lied to by the people he cares about the most...and is obvs. confused and hurt right now...if anything I am excited for this storyline...and it's nice to see Matt actually doing something

Black_Betty

But it's not like John told her. He implied things about Isobel that cast Alaric in a bad light. But he at no point actually told her that Isobel was alive. Telling Jenna anything wasn't his goal or he would've just done it. I'm not prepared to give John honesty points when he wasn't being honest and honesty wasn't his goal.

We aren't sure Alaric is really dead, but to address that point: if it meant saving Elena I absolutely think John would risk Alaric's life. I think he'd feel guilt about it, sure, unlike if it were a vampire's life but I do think he'd do it. About the ring: there were other issues to touch on, from the deed to the house to ratting out the others to the council, that he didn't need to pick Isobel. That was a personal dig that he knew would drive a very deep wedge between Jenna and Alaric. To me that's just kicking up dust and being petty.

I think it was a nice thing to do but to me it was the minimum to be considered a good guy. Jeremy is a kid. If John hadn't offered him that protection it'd make him a douche, imo.

Like you said, John said Isobel wanted a do-over and had info about Klaus. She had to contact him at some point for him to know that info John neither looked nor sounded surprised to me, YMMV.

Isobel told that to Katherine and we know now that she was playing Katherine from the beginning. John was the only one she was really working with though she did keep info from him. But like I said, it looks really suspicious to me the way everything rolled together quite conveniently for John.

Maybe John's innocent in this. I do think everything he's doing/has done is to protect Elena. I freakin' loved that explanation about the massacre of the tomb vampires because it was perfect. But John lies, keeps info to himself, and tends to act like a jerk. Trust is earned, not given, and it can't be proven right now just how much he did or didn't know. There's only speculation. I'm just saying I personally don't see any reason to give him the benefit of the doubt where Jenna/Alaric is concerned.

Schumiac

I how calm Damon was when he realized he couldn't move and started to burn. It's like he has a "bad things happen, deal with it" attitude. I guess it also hints at how he doesn't care that much about dying? Like the prospect of "really" dying is not really all that scary to him so he doesn't panic or anything but is all calmly telling Bonnie to "make it stop". I also find it interesting that till he came home he didn't even realize Uncle J was dripping blood all over him. Given how "sensitive" vampires are supposed to be to blood that was weird. OR maybe he noticed but didn't care, and it just shows how much control over the hunger he has that he doesn't go all crazy at the sight/smell of all that "fresh" blood.

Stefan looked kind of sinister at the end and what is more, I noticed Stefan is DRINKING (and we all know it is something vampires do to battle their blood urges and something "on animal blood" Stefan did not do but WAS doing the moment he was on human blood) and he is being COLD and cunning and pointing out Bonnie is useful to them as a weapon. The way he was going about it was weird. I feel normally Stefan would be too "good" to see Bonnie as just a weapon but there was something cold and sinister about it. "Animal blood" Stefan would have objected to Damon calling Bonnie their "secret weapon" pointing out he can't view humans like that and in a way on this case it was Stefan suggesting and saying it himself. Can it be the human blood is starting to affect him again, slowly?

Salvatores FINALLY deciding it may be best to hand the house over to a human they can trust so vampires can not come in and out as they like was good news. It is ironic that the Salvatore house is now the most "vampire protected" house there is, given everyone keeps getting invited into Gilbert house. So, I take it Elijah is NOT in the house anymore, then? What happens when he wakes up and is in the house but the house is on Elena? Does he get forcefully thrown out like it is the case in True Blood?

I'm assuming the "witches' burial grounds" house was build after (maybe the land was cheap! heh!) all the burnings as it doesn't make sense that a wooden house would not be burned down or at least have some scorching marks if they had witches burned there... I guess because the witches were haunting the house it didn't take long for it to be deserted by its human inhabitants and noone ever moves in or came near the place again and it was kept a secret...

The moonstone within the soap dish bit was kind of stupid. I mean yes, Kat searched his room and couldn't find it and she only found it by chance as she washed her hands and just as she was leaving it occurred to her to dig deeper into the soap thing to search for it but still, I think Salvatores (I doubt Damon was the only decision maker in that one, Stefan would also know where the thing was) would have hidden such an important thing much much better and not in plain sight. All it takes is someone turning his room upside down to find it. I'd have expected them to hide it somewhere very secret, at a location they'd need to torture out of the boys (not gonna happen of course) and where they could not just "by chance" discover it. So, it is stupid. But more than that, it is contrived bad writing that this show has been suffering from a lot this season.

Another example was how Alaric handed his ring down to John and how Klaus just let Elena be this episode. Looks like they did the "ring exchange" so that Alaric can be possessed by Klaus and Uncle John can be attacked by Isobel but not die and thus live to have a heart-to-heart with Elena. If they kill Alaric off I will riot, though I will admit THAT was quite the twist and did not see that one coming. Looks like they drained him off his blood just enough to weaken him for Klaus to possess him (and probably the protecto-ring would have caused Alaric to heal too quick for Klaus to be able to possess him...) What is the deal with possessing Alaric anyway? It seems it is done to find Elena. Well, Klaus could have had Elena. He has Katherine and the moonstone, he had Elena. What on earth does he need Alaric for? Does he also need to witches' burial ground? And thinks Alaric may find that info for him?

It really doesn't make much sense for Klaus to let Elena remain in Mystic Falls. WHY would he need Salvatores to protect her? He has the moonstone, he has warlocks to do his bidding, he can get any vampire he wants to use in the sacrifice, I seriously doubt he'd have problem finding a werewolf to use in the sacrifice (and I doubt he thinks keeping Elena alive and in Mystic Falls would help in that part of the things). Just have the doppelganger brought to you too and you can compel her to stay put. Why bother with chasing her down again? Unless even the most ancient vampire can not resist the thrill of a hunt and even though he has been working his ass off to get this curse broken for hundreds, maybe thousands of years, he suddenly has an urge to make this harder for himself and more challenging by letting Elena and co. put up a fight.

I really hope they are NOT going to have Klaus be all in love with Katherine...

Katherine was wearing Elena's necklace when Klaus kidnapped her, right? So, what "jewelry" keeps her protected from sun? A ring? And the warlock removed the necklace thinking it was THAT that kept her protected from the sun? So she still has sun protection jewelry on? For that matter, what happened to Katherine not being affected by the "headache inducing" spell? Did the warlock use something else then?

Isobel and Katherine genuinely being friends is interesting. It makes me wonder why and how... And John knew & it made him more lenient with Katherine (despite all she did)? What did they do, hang around together for a period of time?

John and Isobel earn some points I guess given they genuinely loved their daughter despite their actions even if they are terrible parents.

I don't care for Matt though he did sound kind of sad about betraying Caroline. I am disappointed in Liz but she is giving the same reaction she gave initially. I just hope, as before, she comes around. Though it is breaking my Damon/Liz friendship and Caroline/Liz loving heart that they may make her turn on them all and hurt them rather them make her come to accept the situation again...


I'm pretty sure Isobel was compelled to kill herself. The warlock was calling to give her the command line for it "you're done now" which she repeated, and it was very much reminiscent of what she did to her own messenger to Elena, who was compelled to die once he was "done". And you see the weird "relief" in her face when she gets that comment, like she knows it is finally over for her and she won't have to do the "torturous" job of betraying and hurting those few she loves and is "relived from duty" if you will... Because I think IF she wasn't compelled she'd be trying to make amends by joining in on "keep Elena safe" efforts not off himself. She was a loose end Klaus had to get rid of as she may know or figure out where he is/where Alaric and Katherine are taken, given she played such a huge part in acquiring them.

I think Stefan was onto Katherine from the first second as Elena is not just going to call Damon calmly when her biological father just fell down the stairs after being bit by Isobel. She would have been there checking on him... Though I guess it is also possible it was the "you've got some serious explanation to do to the Council about John being NOT so dead" line when she was talking on the phone... Somehow doesn't have that much of a "Elena" ring to it...

Black_Betty

I'm assuming the strength of the spell depends on the witch/warlock. That warlock was scary-powerful, enough to do the possession thing.

This was my suspicion but I'm still not sure because I don't get how the possession works. While Bonnie wasn't bled out before Emily possessed her, 1) Emily was already a spirit, and 2) they were both witches and related which may have made it easier for the possession to happen. It's possible this isn't even true possession but that Klaus is somehow.....plugged in, so to speak. Like he's got a spell running on his end, with Alaric under a spell, and the two allow Klaus to use Alaric like an avatar but he's not truly in Alaric. If that makes sense.

Schumiac

Could be the warlock's power, I guess...

In Bonnie's case I think what "jump-started" and really gave access to Emily was the crystal. I read somewhere that Alaric was not only drained of blood but also given blood (probably blood of Klaus?). I need to rewatch and see but if that is the case I guess that is how he really is able to possess Alaric and use him like an avatar because if the promo is anything to go with, it looks like the Alaric possessed Klaus will be powerful and not a mere human (given how they all seem to be alarmed about it and he seemed to be attacking Bonnie?)

ღMitra

Okay...I watched the right ep I hadn't watched the show since January, and accidentally watched the ep before this new one.

Some things...

My poor Alaric can not die

I appreciated SE's scenes, and thought they were cute.

The whole Katherine/Isobel thing kind of confused me...as well as her killing herself in front of Elena. Was she compelled to do that? Was she actually on Elena's side? I really might just watch all the eps from January that I missed because I feel like I'm missing a lot

Jeremy/Bonnie were cute, I just hope Bonnie doesn't get killed off to make it #3 for Jeremy. That would just be cruel.

Advo

But who's talking about honesty points here? Your inference was that John was to blame for a. Jenna getting hurt and b. Alaric getting hurt. That's all I'm arguing against. I already admitted that John was feeding Jenna suspicious comments, but I'm not going to claim that he did it to help Jenna - though, I do believe he feels she should be told - because I haven't seen enough basis. My view and that's what I feel have been told on screen, is that he wanted the ring back and he wasn't above emotionally blackmailing Alaric. From John's POV, even if he wasn't jealous of Alaric, he would attack Alaric's soft spots anyway - and it would still have been Jenna.


I agree that he would sacrifice Alaric for Elena's life. But so would a lot of parents. I'm not sure what you are referring to when you talk about the deed and ratting out the others to the council? For sure, John has some issues with the Salvatores and would rat them out. They are after all vampires - the very creatures, the council is working against. It's certainly a big conflict of interests. As for Isobel. Like I said, John picked Alaric's soft spot. What else what he supposed to use? John is not stronger than Alaric so he can't force him to hand the ring over. And like I already previously said, perhaps he was being petty too. But it was not his main goal.

Why? If John gave Jeremy the ring that meant losing one himself. If he dies, he cannot protect anyone. John gave Jeremy the ring out of love and because he wanted to protect Jeremy first over his own life and worked for getting his own back. Furthermore, you are implying that John intentionally wanted to hurt Jenna, when he has be shown to care a lot about his family.

How do you know she didn't contact him after Elena wouldn't let her in? And then, he let her and got Elena to come down? Why would he then still need to be surprised? If John was aware of Isobel being in town, then why didn't he arrange for a meeting first over Isobel just appearing on the doorstep?

How do we know she was playing Katherine from the beginning? We know Isobel was playing both Katherine and John because she was compelled by Klaus. And in addition, just because she was under compulsion, she can still be truthful. If you are talking about John and Isobel working together before, how do we know Isobel wasn't actually playing John before and working with Katherine? Or just working for a plan that could save both Elena and Katherine? For someone who double-crosses people a lot, Katherine must actually have trusted Isobel quite a bit (to trust her to go bargain a deal with Klaus for her) and even John said their friendship was genuine. Who knows if it's true, but I don't see how you can conclude Isobel was playing Katherine right from the beginning and not John.

And maybe John is guilty and actually working with Klaus all along. I don't know what will happen in the next episodes, I can only talk about what we have seen so far. I don't see why he isn't innocent regarding Alaric getting hurt. As for Jenna, I think you overestimate how much influence he has. Jenna would have gotten hurt anyway because of Elena and Alaric's lies - this isn't John's fault - and John was not the one who told Isobel to reveal herself. Isobel admitted to it being something she wanted to do out of jealousy and this was not something she needed to lie about anyway. She would only need to hide that she was at the Gilbert place if she was working with John, but in reality she was working for Klaus, though pretending that she was working for Katherine. In fact, after it's been revealed that Isobel was working for Klaus, perhaps Isobel actually went to the Gilbert place to kidnap Elena. And so far, there's been zero signs that John was in on that at all.

Also, I'd really like for people to clarify when John has been a jerk? To other people, sure. And he has the bickering thing with Jenna, but I see her attack him more than I've seen him say something bad. When has he been a jerk to the people he loves like Jeremy and Elena? He lies, but it's not like he can share the things he knows when he doesn't trust the Salvatores, and know Elena will run to them immediately. And I believe in innocent, until proven guilty btw.

ale-la-pazza1

Good episode.

So Isobel came back to die in the same episode. Okay.

Matt, what have you done?

Rick is Klaus? WTF?!?!

Bonnie is basically preparing for a suicide

Elena reaching out to John...I don't know how I feel about this yet.

Oh Katherine, have fun hanging out with Klaus.

Next week looks insanely good!

Advo

In defence of John, I'd also like to point out that Elena trusts and likes Damon better than John EVEN THOUGH DAMON KILLED JEREMY!

John did abandon Elena and was absent or not someone she liked during her childhood... but compare with someone who killed her brother?!!! IDK I feel like it pales in comparison since I do think John had pretty good reasons and Damon was just being his usual melodramatic, emotional self.