HappySquared

Let's move on, people. A mod already asked you guys to stop. Please heed the warning.

ring of fire

Please people stop the SE vs DE debate. It's always the same arguments and it leads to nowhere because noone ever agrees. I understand what it's like to be a hardcore fan of a ship in this show but If I can stop myself from bashing certain character or couple you can too
Besides I hate reading bashing comments towards Stefan or Damon because I love both to death.

I think the episode was amazing and really intense. I seriously LOVE LOVE the producers and writers of this show. I hope they keep the quality of the show this high always.

The actors are really stepping up their game. Michael is becoming the break out star of the show. His scenes were so emotional and Mason's transformation looks really scary. I'd be very scared too. I feel so bad for Tyler, he's going to suffer so much

I hope Caroline is there for him. I love how their relationship is evolving and it's pretty clear Tyler is starting to develop feelings for her. The way he looks at her now and some things he said like you have to be with someone you can be honest. There were little things but I'm sure they put them in there on purpose.
They have so much chemistry and they understand each other in another level.

Of course I didn't like at all that Matt interrupted them. Also I didn't like the way Caroline acted when Matt arrived. I was like seeing season one Caroline all over again.

I still don't know how I feel about Bonnie/Jeremy. I don't hate them but I just don't know.

Now my main worry about this show is what Damon is going to do. I really hope he proves Kat and everyone wrong and help Stefan. The bros relationship is the one I care about the most and I think they were moving into the right direction. I don't want Damon to take ten steps back and betray him.
Of course I completely understand that he will try to win Elena's heart but if he wants to be with Elena he needs to be a better person. He has grown this season and I don't want that growth to disappear.

I haven't made up my mind about Stefan/Katherine. Both characters are my favorites but I don't know how I feel about them together. I still want to see how their relationship will be explored. Next episode looks crazy

Chastidy

Nobody has to agree with me but please don't quote me just to disagree. I love to discuss the episode but nobody will make me feel different about my opinions so don't try.


I enjoyed the episode but I agree with those who have said that it felt like more of an episode designed purely to serve fanships. It was the first episode in the entire series where I doubted the writers ability to remain true to the character and the story instead of just writing what fanships wish would happen. While the episode remained suspenseful, there were too many contrivances and it got destracting.. although not as much as Damon's eye thingy. He needs to tone it down.

Regarding Elena and the suicide mission, I believe that she's just on a downer and felt that there was no other way out. She's right when she says that she never gets to make her own decisions. It's gotten to a stage where she's gone to being central in the loop of the supernatural to being the outsider while everyone close to her plots to save her life and puts themselves at risk for her. I think her jumping to such an unrational conclusion of suicide was a combination of not wanting her family to be hurt and also, feeling like a prisoner in her life.

A major contrivance of the episode for me was Damon rushing off to the rescue without telling Stefan. I don't doubt that he would never hesitate to save Elena but I don't for a second believe that he wouldn't tell Stefan what was going on especially when Stefan was a mere three feet away. Considering that they were going facing off against Katherine and the resulting damage, it just felt all the more stupid that Damon would just leave him like that.. and also that Stefan didn't wonder where he was. It was a stupid contrivance that was done to get Damon/Elena together and Stefan into the tomb.

I don't think Damon was being violent, I think that he was just mad at Elena for going rogue. He is in love with her and it obviously bothers him that she would even consider giving in to Klaus. I definetly think that the writers went overboard with incessant bickering and intense staring. I got the impression that the only reason Damon was in anyway ~rough with Elena was to give their fanbase material to swoon over. He's grabbed Caroline in a similar manner before and it played out completely differently because we weren't supposed to get any hidden meaning or tension in it. Maybe I'm wrong but it definetly felt that way.

Stefan ran into the tomb to save Elena in the past before so I'm not surprised that he would try to save Jeremy. I don't think that Damon/Elena will ever happen without Stefan betraying Elena in some way. The way she ran straight to the tomb desperate to see him - I could never see her act that way for Damon. The quality of this episode along with the promo for next week has me doubting the writers ability to not throw Stefan under the bus for Damon/Elena to make even an ounce of sense and I think it could be the beginning of the end for the show if they go that route. I hope that I'm wrong on this one.

The funny thing is that I would take Bonnie/Jeremy or Caroline/Tyler over the main triangle any day yet at times it dictates the show. I know, I know it's what the show is all about .

Another thing that really bugged me tonight is that if the others had just listened to Jeremy in the first place instead of shutting him down then the plan wouldn't have become such a mess. To me, he was the hero of all of them even though he ended up causing a lot of damage. He didn't want Bonnie to get hurt and also, wanted to protect his sister. I hope that this is a lesson for the others to start treating him like the adult that he clearly is. They all underestimated him tonight and it did more harm then good.

Also, what's the age gap between him and the other teenagers? A year? It's not like he's in middle school trying to hang out with them. I don't get Bonnie's reluctance to admit her feelings. She clearly likes him although I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt considering her magicgasm with Luka obviously has her confused . She was so defensive towards him at times tonight though. I'm totally rooting for them though.

Tyler and Caroline continue to be my favourite part of the show. This seasons breakout stars. Honestly after last nights episode you could give me a spinoff with just these two and I think I would watch it over Vampire Diaries. There's something about their connection that is so innocent yet extremely complicated at the same time. Tonight was the first episode that I could see subtle hints that went beyond friendship especially in the scene where she explained why she wanted to help him or when he told her that he got why she wasn't with Matt. There were some definite looks being exchanged. I don't know if it's how natural the pairing has come about but I find their relationship to run a lot deeper then I've found either brothers relationship with Elena to be although I think this is mainly because it wasn't planned from the show start.

I don't like Matt a lot but I did feel for him tonight. He looked like he was about to cry. Also, I got the impression that Tyler was a little colder to him. I don't think it's to do with Caroline but I wonder if he resents him for inadvertedly triggering the curse. He might not know that he was compelled if he still thinks that Caroline is the only vampire. I didn't take him coming to the door as anything territorial. If anything, I don't think Caroline or Tyler have thought about how their sudden friendship might be perceived as they've been so preoccupied. I think Tyler could have been merely letting himself out and seeing Matt caused him to stop, look at Caroline and finally think man this is weird.

I do feel sorry for Matt though because he's carrying the guilt of being involved in a girls death when it's not his fault at all. I really wish that they would give him a football scholarship and get him the hell out of Mystic Falls so that he could have a happy life. Being part of the supernatural world may not be easy but being out of the loop can be just as big a burden. Just ask Jenna's stabbed stomach.

Speaking of Jenna, are they ever going to give her more to do? I don't even think that I care but if Alaric is going to end up wasted on her then at least give her some scenes.

While Katherine is still fabulous, Elijah is surpassing her as my favourite villain. Not surprised that Rose bailed seeing as she's done nothing but scream and cry at the mere mention of Klaus. I hope that she's gone now because she turned out to be incredibly dull.

Kary1591

I'm not quoting JUST to disagree.. obvs no one is changing anyones mind, it goes both ways.. but i want to share my thoughts on it too.

I think the difference between Damon grabbing Caroline and Elena is that the circumstances are different. He's so desperate to save Elena and he's doing all this to save her life. With Caroline it's usually more of a "I'm threatening you to make sure you won't put me and Stefan in any danger."

And yeah, DE scenes mostly IMO do have tension and hidden meanings, but it's always been that way.. i don't think it's something new or OOC.. DE scenes have always been portrayed that way, and it could be fan-service, but it's been there since the start, if not, DE wouldn't have fans, thats just DE's MO. SE fans get their "epic" scenes, and DEers get our hidden meaning tension filled ones.

About throwing Stefan under the bus.. i don't understand this that well.. Stefan isn't perfect.. so every-time he does something his fans don't approve of it'll be because of DE?

In that case.. Damon killing Lexi infront of Elena was to prop SE? Damon snapping Jeremy's neck was to prop SE? Damon constantly being thrown under the bus is done so that SE could look better?

It's just i don't consider SK sleeping together throwing Stefan under the bus, if they were throwing him under the bus they'd have him cheat. But they aren't doing that, SE are broken up.

Black_Betty

I would love some clarification on how this constitutes character bashing.

Did I say she should die? No. I said it was a smart move. And for this character -- who wants to end the hunting with as few deaths as possible -- suicide is the best option. Her plan wouldn't have minimized casualties as Klaus would still need a vampire, witch, and a werewolf. But, if she kills herself then that's it. No more Petrova dopplegangers to sacrifice, and the moonstone basically becomes useless.

Would 99% of my posts on this board be pro-Elena if I wanted her dead?

africa_<3

THIS. I don't see how SK is a prop to DE at all. His past with Katherine is no secret, and neither is the fact that he was incapable of killing her. He still feels something for her, and that has nothing to do with DE as a ship but with Stefan as a character. Damon got his closure with Katherine, but Stefan hasn't.

Chastidy

By all means share your thoughts on it. But please don't quote me as a basis for your disagreement. It makes me feel like I have to defend all my opinions when they're just opinions.

london grammar

THIS whole damn paragraph. I hope Kevin and Julie rectify that.

Schumiac

Great post Kary! I agree completely!

Exactly. If it wasn't for Katherine and the boys' past with her we wouldn't even have SE or DE right now. Elena could have the exact same personality, but if she looked like, say, Caroline as opposed to Katherine, Stefan would still save her -as he would save any human- and then he'd go on his way, not specifically getting interested in her (and Damon would just still come to the town to try to release Katherine and be on his way himself, not even running into Stefan who would probably not even be around! ) Stefan may have come to love her for who she is, but his first interest in her had to do with the fact she looked exactly like Katherine. Katherine who Stefan thought was dead but still remained hunged up on -according to his best friend's own words. And I think their interactions so far has shown he still has some feelings for her. He has to deal with them at some point and put them to rest...

I also don't think Elena running into the tomb to check on Stefan is a reaction that is specific to Stefan. She would be running there for anyone she loves as it is a part of her own character. I remember when we have seen the promo and that Damon/Elena scene where she was fighting him off to go into the tomb, we were speculating she was trying to go there either because Stefan or Jeremy got stuck in the tomb with Katherine as it could be either (Bonnie was ruled out as she was definitely outside casting the spell). She gets very passionate when something happens to her loved ones, or people she came to care for and she will risk her life for them or run like crazy to check on them to make sure they are OK.

HappySquared

I'm positive that Kem doesn't mean to pin you on the character bashing, that's why she quoted it with the question on the "implication" and if so, please steer clear of comments like that. We're also not questioning you on your posts regarding Elena (if it's pro or anti), we wanted everyone to follow the rules stated on the opening post of this thread.
Here's the rule on the OP about character bashing.
If you have further questions and/or concerns about the rules, please PM me. Thank you.

Guys, whether you stated that it's not directed towards a certain ship, poster, group or putting disclaimers - I would want to reiterate that it's the tone of your posts that makes the difference. I'll be sending separate PMs to the posters concerned, but please respect each others' point of view. Avoid getting defensive, watch your tone. Emphasizing on conjunctions (ex. "but"), adverbs ("obviously"), interjections (ex. "well"), etc. I'm not going to lecture you all on how your tone sounded, but I'd like you guys to take a deep breath and think if your posts sounded defensive, derisive, or not.

naturellebella

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HappySquared

Thanks Kem We posted at the same time.

london grammar

I have a question for the mods. I don't think people should be allowed to bash the characters..... saying like they want such and such to die or other incendiary remarks, but are we refrained from saying anything negative about the show or a character's actions? Just because somebody else might not agree? Also, how are we supposed to know what other people may find divisive? One person might think the comment is fine but somebody else might be offended.

ETA: Not trying to start something. I'm just genuinely confused. I just want to know for future reference.

HappySquared

Nope, that's fine. As long as it's not offensive to other ship or fans.

ETA: Put yourself in their shoes. Before posting something, if you're a DEr, think like an SEr; and vice versa. Read your posts aloud and gauge if you sounded mad, angry when you speak. If you sounded mad aloud, chances are you sounded mad on your post. I'm pretty sure we're all mature enough to do it. Hope that helps. If you still have questions, feel free to PM me.

Touldengal

This was seriously one of the best episodes DE-wise. Moving the story along in a positive way and giving them some time alone in the following episode. so much <3

I think Damon is so ridiculously gorgeous, my eyes hurt a little bit when staring at him for too long. His eyes are hypnotizing, it's seriously insane.

Other than that, so cool about Elijah. I was left a bit confused, but very much interested in all of this. I'm also very much interested in the whole warlock/witch storyline.

Stefan getting stuck with Katherine is amazing hahaha. Can I just say how amazing Nina Dobrev is? How can one character she play be so fierce and the other so tame? LOL. it's crazy. i love it.
I think i love Katherine/Stefan more than I do Elena/Stefan because I find Katherine brings some fire into their relationship. I love passion and I totally see that in them. I also find Stefan insanely hot and especially when he's around her cuz he is all bad ass
I did miss the Caroline/Stefan scenes though

I also adore Caroline/Tyler and Caroline/Matt. I can't handle it, I ship her with ALL of them WHO DO I CHOOOOSEEEE? meh, i'll remain a multishipper.

Damon/Elena own my heart btw. I can't with these two. For years I had 2 ships I was in love with and as much as I like many other couples on a TV show, no one would even reach my intense love for Pacey/Joey and Ross/Rachel... until now. Damon/Elena are so perfect, I can't stand it. Every time they share a scene together now, I think back to that bedroom scene and how he made her forget because everything he has done since and everything he continues to do, is for her and in such a selfless way. And along with that, he is also building his relationship with his brother and gah, so much love. To see a character grow as much as Damon has is just amazing to watch. So much character growth, so much maturity. I am obsessed. Him holding on to his humanity is the best thing this show has at the moment. I love all aspects of it, but he, to me, is the center of it. He carries my interest further than anyone else. His relationship with his brother, his relationship with Elena and even his relationships with the people of Mystic Falls [Jeremy, Alaric, the council]. I love it all.

I think the writing of this show is amazing. They do it more justice than any other show I am currently watching on TV right now. Writing a slow build up to a couple. A build up that was obviously written in the stars from episode 1. DE have been building since episode 1. The proof is in the episodes. And I'm not sure if people are all that familiar with KW, but this is definitely his style. He writes a large portion of this show and I personally commend him for how he's been writing DE. The fact that they didn't kiss, just makes me want to thank him even more. He did it so well. We already know Damon is in love with Elena, but right now we are watching her go down that same road and it's fantastic. Slow and steady, but totally worth it. Believe it or not, but the triangle on this show is actually a major part of it. It's not only about Damon/Stefan, vampires/werewolves/witches nor is it only about the triangle. They are all major factors of the show and to dismiss this episode for solely being catered for the fanships just cheapens a major portion of the basis of the show. The triangle is important and I am certain we will continue to get episodes where they are centric to just that.