Protean

We are all entitled to our own opinions of course, and if you consider Season 5 post Katherine to be better than Season 2 (which I consider to be TVD at its finest), then I'd be very interested to see your reasons for that.

As for Katherine not being the 'main' character, the very definition of the main character can be a slippery sort of thing. Do you consider Elena to be an central character right now? Her entire existence seems to revolve around the brothers and acting as the girlfriend character. We've all seen that story before. What happened to the Elena of season 2 who manipulated Elijah with the threat of suicide and thus managed to dagger him? Is the main character simply a title to be handed out by the writers, or is the main character the one that makes things happen? Klaus in Season 3 was the source of all the drama. In many ways, he stole the show and in my eyes, was the main character at the time.

As for Katherine's story ending, I found it extremely unsatisfying. If she had to go, it should have been in a final struggle against Klaus and the kingdom he built for himself. He was the one who made her who she is. To her, Elena was just another diversion. And the moralizing at the end is hilarious and untrue to TVD's spirit. If they are going to judge Katherine for her amorality, at least they should have shown us that, Damon, Stefan and Elena are as equally damned by human conventions. Vampires should not be constrained by human morality, and that was one of the key ideas that made the show so interesting between Season 1 and 4. The battle between humanity and vampirism was always one of the key draws of the show. (Think serial-killer Damon, Ripper Stefan, Katherine's carefully orchestrated and diabolical plans, Elena's mass murder of Kol's bloodline to protect Jeremy, and Klaus' logical and methodical tyranny).

In the end, I just find it sad that Nina's talent is wasted on playing a character who fits in nicely within a social norm. Such characters have been done over and over again that they're not really original, but simply copies of each other put into similar circumstances. I miss Katherine, I miss the old Elena, but most of all, I miss TVD in all its former glory. The schemes, twists and absolute amorality it represented in the past was what made it so exciting in my eyes.

But of course I may have watched TVD for entirely different reasons. And I'm always open to different viewpoints. I'm curious as to what you find so compelling (pun not intended) about TVD?

LabuanPearl88

I never said this, maybe I wasn't clear enough in my post, I meant that I don't consider Katherine the reason season2 (or any other) was great and this season (or any other) isn't as compelling as that one

Since I don't reduce Elena to those roles you wrote, yes, I consider her the main character as she always was and I think she did enough in this season too, a part from the episodes where she wasn't actually here at all thanks to Kat Even after the first possession, she tried to escape and knocked down Nadia and the witch, so I don't think Elena is just "someone GF" at all, but I know people like to see her just like this

Klaus and Katherine can be called "the main villains" as far as I'm concerned, she was the one who did this or that for her own reasons against those I consider the main characters and whose consequences had to be faced Obviously other people will think otherwise and consider Kat the main character and someone fundamental for the show; personally I liked her but couldn't see her this way, while I think the show couldn't work without Elena and Damon and Stefan, for example Depends on POV

Oh I see I think this could have been a great end too, and as you wrote, a more satisfying one for Katherine I just gave up on it the day they announced the spin-off, I was sure unfortunately we would have never had one like this That's why I would have preferred an epic fight between Klaus and Kat to end with their deaths, or only one of them's death, or whatever, at the end of season3 maybe, or in season4, I think that would have been perfect When I say I liked the end of Kat this way, I mean that seeing how the producers' choices developed (the spin-off, etc...), I kind of gave up on this epic KK battle and took what they gave me Probably the fact that even if I like her, she's not among my priorities and favorites, reduced the disappointmen, while in your case, loving her, it couldn't happen

I more than agree with this If I have one problem with this show is how some characters have double standars to judge others or are considered "better" while they're not, that's why I like when some of them admit they're not and they shouldn't be because they're vampires That's why I love when they act like vampires, not always showing humanity I guess my sympathy for some characters and not for others is because I can relate with some and not with others or I prefer one kinf od complexity more than another

I see your point better now I think that I see Elena in a different way and that's why I have less problems with her right now as always But I see why you may feel disappointed in this

Of course, everyone has their own reasons, I'm not denying that I'll send you a PM, or we'll go OT here to show you my ideas about the show and why I still love it, even admitting not everything is good as it used to be

Protean

We can continue here if you like, it's not really OT IMO since I’ll be talking a lot about Kat anyway. I understand and respect why you would consider Elena to be an active character because of she is capable of defending herself to some extent, but she has no character agency. What I’m meaning is "the capacity, condition, or state of acting or of exerting power". Of course they could have made her a Bella Swan, but then that's just another level of uselessness entirely.

It seems to me that Elena hasn’t does anything for herself since she regained her humanity in Season 4, and her actions revolve around other characters on the show. The previous seasons where Elena manipulated Damon's emotions, tricked Elijah and interrogated Katherine in the tomb were moments of brilliance for her character, and proved to us that Kevin Williamson is a great writer. Katherine on the other hand is possibly the strongest female character on network television right now and has been since she first entered the show in Season 2. She shapes events to her desire, she drives the plot forwards and leaves everything in shambles after she passes, like a force of nature. For me, it’s so easy to fall in love and root for someone like that. TVD is just not the same without her.

If Katherine really is gone (which I refuse to believe and will never accept), then I want to see Elena do something for Elena's sake and use her influence on the other characters for her own goals. If the story didn't try to sidestep around the fact that Elena is slowly becoming more like Katherine, it would be so much better. But every time they approach the issue, the writers seem to be scared they'll alienate viewers and simply brushes off the issue. Killing Jesse and Kol were key moments for her character, but the writers don't use it and instead makes excuses to say how Elena is still a ‘good’ person. Damon and Stefan get all the real development. Unfortunately, they seem to be developing towards the useless spectrum. The time when Damon represented a mysterious and almost alien way of thought is long gone. Instead, we get a lovesick puppy who screws up every now and then. Meanwhile Stefan is just a pretty face on the show with no real direction or purpose except to parent Damon’s childlike antics. Oh and to be the third leg for the ever so sacred love triangle.

You might have different ideas on everything of course, and I'd love to hear about it.

LabuanPearl88

I understand our different thoughts start from a different way to consider a female character strong I don't think you have to show power over other people or trick them or be always selfish for your own preservation the only way to be a strong female character I think Elena is a great character because she's both manipulative and nice, both good and bad, I admire her excactly because she doesn't put herself as the center of the world, other people do and she cannot do anything about it in a long while , but at the same time she can get what she wants with her own methods. Frankly I don't want her to become Katherine, I don't even understand why she should TBH, because I don't consider Kat a role model that has to be reached Katherine had her own characterizations, her own ways to survive, Elena has hers, why should I hope for them to be similar completely when I think that the good about the world is that we're not always alike? I wouldn't appreciate Elena for this or Kat for that if they were alike

Katherine was a good character but frankly I wouldn't wish her selfishness to anyone because I don't consider it a value or something to be proud of, rather, it was among the reasons she has been alone all her life, along with Klaus and other reasons: it's her character and that's ok, but I'd never want Elena to be that way Elena faced Tessa and forced her to do what she wanted to bring Bonnie back, she got information from Aaron in her own way, she's capable of defend herself and people she love most of the times, I don't get in what she had so much no agency TBH She's just different from Kat, and again, I don't get why she should be like her, especially after everything she did to her, which would be enough to me not to want to be like her

I think we have different ways to see this show for sure at this point, because by her own admission, Elena said she's not a "good person" (maybe you confuse her with Caroline "the good vampire" Forbes ), she just tries to be good, to be better, but she doesn't esitate to make bad things when they're necessary to protect people she loves... and what's to blame in that? She's what she's, how her parents taught her to be, and she already changed very much since season1 Yeah, being a vampire means you shouldn't have morals, but I frankly prefer a complex character capable of good and bad things and to question herself every now and then, than others entirely bad or entirely good

Again, Katherine had her own characterization, apart from some embarassing moments she was a good character and villain and I'm not denying she directed the scene sometimes, but I can't relate to her and all her (many times pointless) selfishness and ruthless nor I think she was so much a key-character for the show in the long run I prefer Elena, maybe because I read her character in another way and appreciate what other people don't, and that's ok, it's not an obligation to see this or that in a character, it's the good of having different opinions

Agree to disagree about Stefan/Damon/the triangle, don't think the first had any kind of development, surely not better than Elena's, that the 2nd is a love-sick puppy and I believe the 3rd is dead and buried and has been for a long while, but this is really OT, so I stop myself

Jewelstone

naturellebella

Had to post this gorgeous photoset:


"You have no idea who I really am."
a quiet darkness;

fire for a heart

thanks for sharing it is pretty
so she got sucked into the other world,is that why we didn't see her in finale?

Forwood4Bamon

I love that gifset.

Jewelstone

That is gorgeous, thank you.

LabuanPearl88

Beautiful gifset

☆♥~Buffyverse_Lover16~♥☆

Anna, why don't you talk to me anymore? I miss you, and wonder what you do with your life.

I found a beautiful gifset:





Dreamworld Above♡

Forwood4Bamon

very pretty.

Jewelstone

Thanks for the gif set. I like the coloring.

☆♥~Buffyverse_Lover16~♥☆

Thanks

Jewelstone

Saw this on Tumblr





x

Is it really Katherine's birthday?