The Vampire Diaries - Debate Thread: A place to discuss controversial topics and storylines - Page 4

FrellingTralk · 05-19-2010, 03:28 AM

I think it was the right choice because you see a lot of shows have fans turn against them in the second season and look at the first season through rose-colored glasses (the whole sophomore slump). But by introducing Katherine in the finale they've assured a really kickass season 2 IMO.

I guess my only concern is that I do think it will most likely have to end with Katherine dead, and it does seem a little early for that. But then at the same time, it was assumed for a long time that she was already dead in the beginning, and the show still got on fine with the existing modern-day characters, so I don't think her being alive in present-day is essential to the show or anything. She could still feature in flashbacks after this. I'm interested in seeing what she was doing over the years

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Originally Posted by Chastidy (View Post)

As long as it's not Damon or Stefan. It's pretty obvious after 145 years that girl couldn't give a damn about them. If anything I would think her achilles heal might be her cockiness, it's what led to her getting caught in the first place

I agree that she doesn't care about them, but I wonder if her reaction to Damon's words and kiss in the finale is setting up for her to be jealous of his affection for Elena, and to maybe decide that she wants Damon after all. Not as real love, but as the whole wanting what you can't have thing, and being determined for Damon to fall in love with her again. Her deciding that she wants Damon after all would mess up a lot more than if she was just the same old uncaring Katherine

And I don't think her presense is going to be revealed rightaway in the season 2 premiere, if she and Elena were going to cross paths already I think they would have actually shown Elena's face as she walked into the kitchen and seen what was going on, not just set up the possibility that Elene might see Katherine there. And besides Katherine could easily be out of the kitchen in vampire speed if she wants to lay low for a while and mess with Elena's life while Elena is unaware

LolaRuns · 06-27-2010, 03:57 PM

Might I suggest another topic, because I'm curious what people think of it.

() Do you think both Stefan and Damon would have fallen for Elena if she hadn't looked exactly like Katherine?
() Do you think that Damon would have fallen for Elena the same way if she hadn't been Stefan's girlfriend? Why or why not? What would have been different? [let's say Stefan is in town but has shown no romantic interest in Elena]

HappySquared · 09-19-2010, 04:12 PM

Bringing this back up.

Maybe we could talk about Bonnie's actions in here. Or if you have other stuff in mind.

HappySquared · 10-23-2010, 04:30 PM

Anyone has suggestions? Or shall we go with the one suggested?

Drunk On You · 10-23-2010, 06:27 PM

I like the Bonnie actions topic.

HappySquared · 10-24-2010, 12:44 PM

All right.

What do you think of Bonnie's reaction to all things Vampire-related? Is she being reasonable or self-righteous?

Please remember the rules:
1.) Respect others opinions, take opposing comments with a grain of salt.
2.) NO bashing of actors and other posters.
3.) You are always welcome to go back to a topic that has previously been discussed and tell us your opinion.
4.) No shipper debates will be allowed.

venusnv80 · 10-24-2010, 12:54 PM

I think her reaction os with merit. I don't think the writers have done a good job of showing the WHY. I'm also one of those viewers of all of these vampire shows that believes its completely unrealistic for everyone to be like, "Oh you're a vampire...cool...let's go for malts". There has to be some balance of people who accept them and people who are weary of them.

Either way, Bonnie doesn't truly hate vampires because she continues to help them.

LolaRuns · 10-24-2010, 02:12 PM

I think Bonnie is weary of vampires who kill people. The fact that she treats Stefan different from Caroline different from Damon shows that she is not just one way with "All things vampire".

Stefan: proved himself in Bonnie's eyes
Caroline: killed a bunch of people but wants to do differently
Damon: likes kiling people

Might she have to redraft her perceptions on whether or not it is ok to kill people or some people, maybe. But on a general level it seems like a sensible position for a human to take.

Even if one agrees abstractly with the idea that vampires are not morally culpable for killing humans (even when they do it for kicks rather than for food) wouldn't the normal reaction of a human at least be self protection?

That said, I generally feel like the side of the people who aren't total vampire fangirls and fanboys is painfully underdeveloped. IMO it should be ok not like something. And it's not even so much that the show portrays them (Bonnie, Liz, John) as one note evil, they just don't really bother to give their reaction much credence.

I don't think that Bonnie prejudges. She after all gets along with Stefan. And her issue with Caroline started AFTER she walked in on Caroline having murdered somebody. So it's not like she was suspicious of Caroline maybe killing somebody, Caroline had already killed somebody (and then was involved in the killing of two more humans shortly thereafter).

IMO the unrealistic bit isn't that some people would be weary of individuals who kill humans the problem is that Bonnie's morality is undermined in that that the magic Elena word cancels out almost anything else Bonnie tries to follow.

I think Bonnie will come around simply because she has to because otherwise the show doesn't work. A show can't exist with a significant character constantly pointing out that a lot of the main characters aren't nice people. And similarly, the main plot is about the vampires and they can't keep Bonnie as a character with screentime if they put her in a position where she can't be in the vampire plots because she won't let herself be.

I do think it's a pity that they can't have actually likeable character who exist on the show and ok characters without being vampire fangirls/fanboys. Just see Alaric and Jeremy. I think it's really sad in a way. IMO it makes the show seem insecure that everybody who arrives has to turn into a fanboy. It shouldn't be impossible for various consistent different opinions and world views to exist on the same show.

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I have always had the conviction that you can tell the difference between a despot and a non-despot is that the actual despot will throw you in jail for calling him a despot. Basically, if the characters really are so good and secure, then they shouldn't be so threatened by somebody daring to not like them. It shouldn't be this instable, their "non-despotness" should be obvious even without non-fans being maligned or gotten rid off (either by being killed or "seeing the light").

HappySquared · 12-22-2010, 04:04 AM

Missed this thread.

I'm actually on an equal footing on this debate. Though, I'd touch on the points already raised on this thread.

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I don't think the writers have done a good job of showing the WHY.

Most of the misconceptions on Bonnie stem out from this reasoning. The writers so far had done little SL for Bonnie. We know a little about her thoughts, feelings and then we were immediately thrown into a love triangle (Luka/Bonnie/Jeremy).

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Might she have to redraft her perceptions on whether or not it is ok to kill people or some people, maybe. But on a general level it seems like a sensible position for a human to take.

Even if one agrees abstractly with the idea that vampires are not morally culpable for killing humans (even when they do it for kicks rather than for food) wouldn't the normal reaction of a human at least be self protection?

Thinking about it on a human perspective I am agreeing with you. Bonnie (although has supernatural powers) still thinks and lives very human. It is very understandable that she would want to protect them from beings that could hurt them.

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I don't think that Bonnie prejudges. She after all gets along with Stefan. And her issue with Caroline started AFTER she walked in on Caroline having murdered somebody. So it's not like she was suspicious of Caroline maybe killing somebody, Caroline had already killed somebody (and then was involved in the killing of two more humans shortly thereafter).

This is where I'm going to disagree with you though. Yes, her issues with Caroline started when she saw her mouth full of dried blood and finding out that she became a vampire. But to take it all out on Damon was a bit prejudiced. My initial reaction to it was 'she must've been in a denial stage. Denial because she was somehow part of the decision that made Caroline who she is now.' And that's my defense in what she did to Damon. So in the question if she prejudges or not, I think she did. She went okay with Stefan again after Stefan showed her that he can still be trusted. But she had issues with him (and all things Vampire-related) when she went back after Gram's death.

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I do think it's a pity that they can't have actually likeable character who exist on the show and ok characters without being vampire fangirls/fanboys. Just see Alaric and Jeremy. I think it's really sad in a way. IMO it makes the show seem insecure that everybody who arrives has to turn into a fanboy. It shouldn't be impossible for various consistent different opinions and world views to exist on the same show.

I think it's already veering off course the topic but I would agree with you on this. I would want to see someone who defies anything Vampire-related but can still be likable. I think the keyword to that is plausible character writing.