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#1 | |||
Fan Forum Hero
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 92,438
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Swan Song (4x09) - Episode Discussion
Swan Song
Based on previous heated debates, we (moderators) have decided to list some guidelines and rules that need to be followed on all episode discussions here. 1. Do not bash any of the cast members or writers. Discussion should be about characters. Substituting an actors name for a character when discussing the character is not okay. They're not the same person. Respectfully critiquing someone's performance or a writer's contribution is fine, however, bashing and being rude about them is not. Offensive nicknames for the writers and cast-members are also not to be used here. This is against Fan Forum policy and is an insult to real people.Thank you, everyone! Happy __________________
-noelle |
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#2 | |||
Master Fan
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 10,520
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tftnt!
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#3 | |||
Loyal Fan
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,871
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I hope that the only people who watch this garbage tonight are the family members that RIB called up to help support their ratings count.
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Katie Fitch punched me and i LOVED it!
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#4 | |||
Fan Forum Hero
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 92,438
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i hope everyone enjoys the episode! I'll be watching it when i get out of work at ten
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-noelle |
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#5 | |||
Fan Forum Hero
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 75,163
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I'm kinda excited about this episode
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#6 | |||
Dedicated Fan
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 949
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Quote:
I am a man. Seems like an odd thing to start my first thoughts of this episode with but, based on the meta in tonight's episode, I will assume that negative responses to the episode wil be considered, according to the writers of Glee, just a sign of lesbian bloggers out of control. Yep a specific minority was called out and ridiculed on tonight's episode of Glee. Yep the longtime complex reactions by sites such as Autostraddle and AfterEllen reduced to hostility based on just wanting the same sex female couple together. Of course anyone reading those and other primary LGBT sites would know that Brittany's bisexuality or Brittany possibly dating a boy this season aren't the thing that rile commentators on those sites. It has been the blatant double standard. Plenty of men and plenty of straight and bisexual women see this comment on it. For example, last year's Huffington Post article which ripped Glee for it's handling of Santana's coming out was written by Asher Huey, a man and a prominent LGBT activist. At one point Brittany says "Love is love" as she is used as a writer's surrogate to shame anyone not adoring Brittany and Sam together. It is hard to believe that anyone would not see through this transparent guilt tripping dripping with the utmost condescension. Maybe a few won't. Persons who will say why are people getting upset. After all Brittany is bi and love is love. The attempt to reduce the problems concerning double standards by the Glee writers is shameful. Particularly when the episode indulges in it. Early on Brittany and Sam are given a duet - something that arguably never occurred in the Brittany/Santana romance (matters how one views "I Want To Dance With Somebody"). Of course that dance number (lacking in pretty much any romanticism) came over 2 seasons after Brittany and Santana were revealed to be sexual partners, over 1 season after Landslide (lead sung by Holly Holliday), and 13 episodes after Brittany and Santana became a couple. To say this is a bigtime double standard does not do justice to how bogus the treatment is. It gets worse in the episode. Brittany and Sam share a kiss. That's right. Their first kiss as a couple was in their first episode as a couple. We all know how ridiculously long it took to have Brittany and Santana have a kiss. Again this is as appalling a double standard. What about Sam and Mercedes? The interracial couple did not share a kiss in their 1st episode together. There was pretty much no buildup to them being a couple (the only foreshadowing was Sam asking Mercedes for a dance). Their first kiss came 11 episodes in to season 3. 11 episodes later. Now of course Chord Overstreet did not appear in most of early season 3 but that does not change that their first kiss did not occur in their first episode together as a couple. But were Mercedes and Sam ever together? The way season 4 has operated no one would have a clue just starting to watch the show. Glee basically employed double standards while trying to play the victim of a minority. While much of the episode was repugnant (the degrading scene in which Brittany eats cheerios from the floor like a dog comes to mind), maybe it is best to engage in the conversation here. There are plenty of points to raise against the storytelling. There will be plenty of articles (and not just from lesbian sites) condemning tonight's episode. But for now, I am shocked. I am shocked to see a minority ridiculed and I am shocked at the appalling double standards employed. But I am shocked I was ridiculed. That straight women, bisexual women, and all men were insulted tonight. As if they could not be concerned with double standards. This show owes an apology to all it's fans. Update: Brittany and Sam have now had, in this season, more 1 on 1 dialogue in 9 episodes this season than either Brittany/Santana or Sam/Mercedes had in all of season 3. Last edited by Inesal; 12-06-2012 at 08:32 PM |
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#7 | |||
Master Fan
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 10,783
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So let's just start of with everything offensive which is basically everything that happened at McKinley tonight. I actually was going to not watch but I had to make myself suffer and watch, not live obvs.
First of all Brittany/Sam is just offensive as hell. Not because Brittany is with a guy because she is bi, but just everything with how it went down with them making fun of the Brittany/Santana fandom and referring to us as "angry lesbians" and trying to pretend that heterophobia is a thing that actually exists. Because you know straight couples have it hard. Love is love after all and the angry lesbians should know this. The writers pretty much missed the entire point of why fans were angry. It's not because Brittany/Sam are hooking up but it's because it took Brittany/Santana 3 seasons to get what Brittany/Sam got in just one episode, and because Ryan insists on only making a mocker of that part of the fandom when Kurt/Blaine and Finn/Rachel fans have also sent Ryan threats via twitter, etc. The fandom has a right to be angry but Ryan shrugs his shoulders and just calls us angry lesbians. Oh so meta, Next I love some Marley shade but blaming her for the loss at Sectionals? Blaming the victim of an eating disorder instead of blaming the dumbass who picked the horrible song in the first place to compete is offensive. I knew Glee would handle such a sensitive topic, they shouldn't have even tried because now they've gone off and make a mockery of people who actually do suffer from eating disoders. They should have lost regardless because the song was a hot mess. But that's Glee for you always placing blame on the female and not the male. Let's not even begin to get into the horrible Breakfast Club rip off, but you know what is Glee if we can't get Hero!Finn in the episode? Now let's go with stuff I did love, which was everything NYADA was pretty much perfect. Lea killed O Holy Night, even though you know Rachel is Jewish so I don't know why she's singing about Christ, but ugh it was flawless nonetheless. I am kind of liking her and Brody because I will ship her with anyone but Finn and he actually makes her feel good. Plus I enjoyed the over dramatic golden ticket scene. Kurt's Being Human was flaw free and it was refreshing to see a Kurt solo when he haven't had one in so very very long. Though I could to without Kurt/Blaine anything. Kurt deserves better. Thank God he got into NYADA, and I agree with Rachel IWHYH was the best Kurt solo, IMHO. I am pretty much annoyed with Cassie and everything she does atm. __________________
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#8 | |||
Master Fan
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,213
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I don't think we were supposed to take Tina's side on blaming Marley, though.
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#9 | |||
Fan Forum Hero
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 92,438
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^^ i like your rumbelle icon
i thought Lea was perfect in this episode. i liked Don't Dream it's over a lot. and as always, finn was perfect. __________________
-noelle |
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#10 | |||
Fan Forum Hero
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 92,438
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^^ i like your rumbelle icon
i thought Lea was perfect in this episode. i liked Don't Dream it's over a lot. and as always, finn was perfect. i think it was really weird though that the eating disorder thing was not really mentioned...... it was all about whether or not glee club was going to rehearse. i'm like what about Marley not eating...? __________________
-noelle |
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#11 | |||
Fan Forum Star
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Can we just punch Ryan in the face right now?
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#12 | |||
Fan Forum Hero
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 95,016
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gross, disgusting, offensive, double standard back in full force, treating hertrophobia like it actually exists. dont you dare use the term 'love is love' when referring to a straight, white, blonde heterosexual couple, it just makes you even more offensive.
so they call out a minority, insult lesbians, and have that couple kiss after less then an episode. They give a full episode to getting them together, while the lesbian couple got a storyline about a sex tape, and drooling boys. I'm not sure what I'm more 'angry lesbian' over the fact that this offensive meta commentary was in it, or the some people who watched it think it is fine. if they wanted to put Sam and Brittany together, fine. that's not what the problem is. was there any narrative need for them to do so. No. they did it because the writers decided to spread their prejudice against a minority group. I had hoped that after the offensive mess of ikag, and singing about kissing girls so your boyfriend might like it. they would have stopped this. __________________
this body's but Em |
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#13 | |||
Fan Forum Hero
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 75,163
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Not bad, not too good.
Too much NY and not enough Lima. The last scene was definitely my favorite Everyone joined a different club Brittany/Sam was cute but it was surrounded by too much meta, it'd have been much better if they left out all the lesbians are angry speeches. Rachel's solo was amazing, I got chills and the scene when she received the invitation was really good. I still don't like her attitude toward Cassandra but whatever. Kurt got in but I still want him in Vogue. Finn packing the trophies while Rachel sang made me tear up. __________________
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#14 | |||
Ultimate Fan
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 8,911
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Watching this episode as I type so here we go......
A. I hate that Rachel got the golden letter making her the 2nd freshmen to ever get it even though NYADA is suppose to be filled with Rachel Berrys but they have not shown us these other Rachel Berrys and have just shown how easily Rachel has adapted and how she has barely even had to fight for anything in this school. While I love Cassandras scenes, i dont know why they havent shown other classes. B. Kitty is called out for what she has been doing to Marley and I am surprised that no one has said anything yet. But really? Sugar has already jumped ship? but someone like Kitty hasnt? I find it hard to believe that Sugar would jump ship just because they lost. C. I have not been against Sam/Brittany happening but I hated how RM basically took out his hate for Brittana shippers by having Brittany go on that mini dialouge about angry lesbians and basically stalking her facebook/twitter. Way to already throw fuel to the fire for this relationship by bad mouthing the past one. They seriously shouldve just got rid of that entire scene since I was already cringing at Brittany eating all those cheerios off the ground where her fellow students have been walking on ALL DAY LONG, there was nothing sweet about it. It was just disgusting. C. How can Rachel honestly think she can compete, after 3 months, with her dance teacher? I just wanted her to be shown up by Cass since she has been way to cocky when it has come to NYADA. D. How can Rachel stalk Tibitdue (sp) and get in NYADA but she turns Kurt away so easily since she "rarely" accepts students after turning them down. E. I would rather Unique join Cheerios, Sue would have let her since she needed to look good. But atleast 4 of them will still be together. Though I didnt really get why ALL of them (well except for Marley) had to join new clubs. After 4 years I still hate how they have missed out on doing a real storyline on for Sue and teh Cheerios. Not only have I wanted to see them compete at their nationals (where Sue would totally use UT voices to help win) but it cant be easy to be stuck in the middle between her and Shues/Finn on going war. They just seem to ignore the fact that they are either in Glee club or are Cheerios (like it would have been nice to see Brittany or Kitty have something to say about having to dismantle the choir room even though it looked like they are absent from it for some reason) I seriously just want Tina to go off on Finn and go all lima heights on him. He isnt in any authority over her, he got to live his dream senior year and had 3 years to be the star of ND, whereas Tina has every right to be mad. She spent 3 years in the background and was still even background in her senior year when she shouldve been the new Rachel (even though the dubbed Blaine the new Rachel and never officially dubbed Marley the new Rachel) Just not enjoying the NY storyline. I just dont like how easy everything has been for Rachel. I hated the happy ending for ND, i can see them coming back but not as a big happy group.I dont also see why Kitty would return, they really need to delve into her more since she seems to enjoy it. And where was Sugar? Why didnt she recieve a text? And to sum up my feelings for this episode |
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#15 | |||
Loyal Fan
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,871
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Quote:
And yes, I did know something that a lot of viewers didn't. Spending too much time on tumblr; which was how I discovered all of the spoilers as to what the writers would have brittany say in order to ridicule and shame one portion of the fanbase - who are not all angry lesbians. There is a person over on tumblr who claims to be a close on-set eye on Glee, and this person leaked the spoilers to quite a popular tumblr blog within the brittana fandom, and encouraged the brittana fandom to boycott glee, because the writers were trying to insult us and make us feel and look bad. We were also told that the writers didn't care, and that the only way that something would be done about the insane double standards was if we, the fans, created as loud an uproar as possible, contacted sponsors of glee to express our disdain, and all around boycotted the show. At first I was skeptical, because this person could have been anybody, but watching every single thing that this 'close on-set eye' - for lack of a better term - spoke about come into fruition in the episode, we now now that this person is a valid source. To add to that, this close on-set eye also mentioned that Samcedes fans would not llike what Sam would have to say about always liking brittany, when he was clearly in 'love' with Mercedes. The writers and their utter incompetence is simply astounding. I really liked samcedes. It's always nice - in my book - to see a white man with a black woman, one who is real and curvacious as well. It was a real depiction of the many relationships out in the world, and it was heartwarming. So, for the writers to completely ignore that, and not even end that relationship properly, all in favor of Bram, speaks volumes on so many levels. I'm disgusted with glee, and struggle to see how anybody is failing to spot the double standards. Thank you for your post. It did make me feel a little better - that at least a handful understand how deep this insult goes. I was furious. __________________
Katie Fitch punched me and i LOVED it!
Last edited by LilyLover; 12-07-2012 at 05:48 AM |
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