Rockyele

Oh, oh, oh!, and I forgot the ending: Leonard walks in to the apartment just to find Sheldon lip-locking (and quite into it) with his laptop screen!

Stardust, agree, at this point, it's always better if Sheldon intiates things, but he's a though nut to crack!

Moyra, the only reason I'm not sending it to Bill&co, it's because I KNOW, they already have had the same idea (and they have thought and phrased it better, they are the bosses and masterminds!), and it's an unamovible part of one of next season's scripts, right, right?

bigbangsheldon

That is a cute idea!
I've always wanted Amy to blow a kiss at Sheldon, there's no touching in that either.

stardustmelody77

So laughing at the thought of Leonard catching them in the lip-lock (even if by screen) and Sheldon being very into it. That would be hilarious (and cute)! I can almost see the glare he would give Leonard when Leonard cannot help himself but has to tease Sheldon. Of course the glare would be because 1) he interrupted the moment and feeling he was having with Amy, 2) because of the comment Leonard makes, and 3) because he is embarrassed that a private moment was witnessed by someone else.

npharris

YES

also, Leonard has walked in on some very interesting Shamy moments over the past couple of years, so I'm excited to see what he's in for next
(edit: maybe he walks in on them just sitting in silence on the couch but they're holding hands, because yano...they do that now...or something, idk xD)

sarahha

I love the idea of Leonard walking in on Shamy doing anything. There shan't be a dull moment for poor Leonard this season (fingers crossed)!

Musickat18

Just popping by to drop this off.

The Procreation Proposal Chapter 7, a big bang theory fanfic | FanFiction

Please read, enjoy, and pretty please review.

ETA:
From the Mayim thread
I loved that as well! What is Ayn Rand's philosophy of objectivity in relationships?

stardustmelody77

Ayn's definition of love: "The idea that a human being ”must exist for own sake, neither sacrificing self to others nor sacrificing others to self. ” Rand also explicitly defines sacrifice as “the surrender of a greater value for the sake of a lesser one or of a nonvalue.”

Definitely sounds like Sheldon's viewpoint on things. The question is, how much of his viewpoint is going to change over time when he learns that love really does involve sacrifice. Sacrifice can be easily given when one truly loves.

moyrani

Well, it is not exactly romantic but here we go. This is Ayn Rand's definition of Objectivism:

Objectivists are in a relationship for the selfish enjoyment of the other person. In other words, love involves selfish gain. As Linda brought up in Mayim's thread, they grant love to those who they value, respect, admire because they mirror their own value. They regard reason higher than emotion in their life as a matter of survival.

I wonder if Mayim concluded on her own that, as a highly logical and selfish person, Sheldon would probably take that kind of approach in relationships, or if it's something that she's actually heard from the writers or directors.

Let's just say that I'd prefer to continue thinking that he's a highly repressed person instead.

stardustmelody77

I agree with you Moyrani. I much prefer he is a highly repressed person. However, even as a highly repressed person, he may confuse himself with thinking he is an objectivist in viewpoint to love. Emotions, however, once they start to come forward from someone that repressed, can lead to interesting "flooding" of results. I think he may be objectivist as a way to guard and continue to repress his emotions. But Amy is so unpredictable and has clearly captivated him. She is very spontaneous and "out there" at times. I think he clearly loves her mind, is attracted to her even though we have not seen much of that come through yet, and highly respects her. He clearly sees her as the only person worthy of being considered a possible mate. But she also has a way of unsettling those stuffed down feelings within him. He has shoved them down for so long they are like a brick and she is slowly chipping away the layers of the brick, turning the chipped pieces into light feathers that float to the surface. Therefore, I think while the writers may be somewhat going that way, that we still will see emotions shine through from time to time with him.

ETA:
Bingo! You hit the nail right on the head. He definitely has deep seeded emotions and feels, which is something a true objectivist does not do much of. That is why there is constant conflict within Sheldon. He wants to be robotic and clinical, aloof, but his heart contains so much love inside that he can't help himself. They constantly cause an internal battle within him. I am looking forward to seeing how they are going to bring this forward this season. I think it is going to lead to him recognizing he is very much in love with Amy and struggling with that knowledge. Eventually, emotions win out though. YAY!

Musickat18

I completely agree.

I think Sheldon would say that he holds to the Objectivity viewpoint, but I think it's more a defense mechanism. Whether Sheldon wants to admit it or not, he's a highly emotional person. He is very easily affected by those around him, whether because he gets upset when things don't go his way, or happy when they do. In season 1 perhaps we didn't see much of this...although I suppose one could argue that his spiral down to weaving and creating luminous fish is a good example of his propensity to repress volatile emotions (in this case, his being upset at being fired). He might have also said that he only got a roommate to help pay the bills, but he went to the point of cutting the power for the entire apartment building after he told Leonard that if he didn't follow the RA they couldn't be friends. Leonard still fulfilled the requirement of being a roommate who paid the bills, so he still served his function. But Sheldon actually missed his companionship. I believe this is the same for Amy. If all he wanted was a smart woman to converse with frequently, he had Beverly Hofstadter. And how perfect she would have been for our Germaphobic little Shelly. Nothing but emails, skyping, and perhaps the occasional telephone call. No, he most certainly feels something for Amy because he FEELS something for Amy, not because she fulfills a "hole in his life" (in a non-romantic sense)

Pomita

I am going through the last few pages with great interest, though not in a situation to analyse or comment in detail myself. Just want to say that the above two lines are so beautiful and brought tears to my eyes.

moyrani

Objectivism does not preclude emotions. It just explains them in a different way. We think that Sheldon is basically in denial of deep seated emotions and needs, which may explain his desperate response to losing Leonard's or Amy's friendship. Objectivists would say that Sheldon has come to highly value what his relationships give him. Platonic and romantic love are commodities for trade, so losing your investment makes you feel cheated, and sometimes that will make you do anything to get back what you feel you are entitled to have. They explain it from a rational, individualistic (read: selfish) point of view.

I can see why Mayim and perhaps the writers might see Sheldon and his actions in that light, particularly in the early stages of the relationship. But I hope they don't continue in that path because typically objectivistics can only make other objectivistics happy since they share the same pragmatic, give-and-take view on romance.

Musickat18

Hmm...yeah...selfishness in romance never bodes well. And Sheldon is certainly a self-centered being.

That's a tough one. I could go round and round with it. For example, First i could say, no that doesn't fit because Sheldon cuddled with Amy even though he abhors physical touch. But then you could say that he saw the cost benefit of doing it as his keeping Amy (and therefore himself) happy in their relationship (such as it was at the time).

How very unromantic indeed...

stardustmelody77

I can see why Mayim and perhaps the writers might see Sheldon and his actions in that light, particularly in the early stages of the relationship. But I hope they don't continue in that path because typically objectivistics can only make other objectivistics happy since they share the same pragmatic, give-and-take view on romance.

I agree that I hope they don't continue in this path. It is okay for us to see it from Sheldon's POV for a bit of the season (as if an objectivist viewpoint), but I am hoping that they really do show us that indeed he indeed has repressed feelings and therefore does not realize that his idea of objectivism is not really who he is, but that he can love and love to the fullest extent without making it about him. I am hoping that because of his love for Amy, he learns that love is give and take and not about only him, but about the two of them together which makes them become a whole new "one". I think it would not please the audience to continue to see him always be selfish and never truly grow in this regard.

ETA:
You bring up an interesting example of why he isn't a true objectivist when it comes to relationships. The example you pose here with Penny being a perfect example. What was in it for him (other than being nice)? He could have just called for an EMT to come pick her up and take her to the hospital. I know a lot of it was because of comedic value, but still, it does not follow a true example of an objetivist. Now I have to believe that Dr. Beverly Hofstader is more likely an objectivist when it comes to relationships than Sheldon. However, she may push Sheldon into having himself follow the objectivism approach to relationships and make him see things that way, but his heart is going to lead him otherwise (in my opinion). Thanks for bringing up the example. It gave quite an opening into this discussion on objectivism.

bigbangsheldon

Sheldon won't admit that he needs, Amy/Leonard (etc) but he will go to extreme lengths to get them back/fill the void. I think if Shamy were to break-up now, at this point, I think he would try and get her back in some way that is just whacko.

You could use the time he helped Penny out the bath as an example, because that was sweet and I don't think there was much in it for him, (apart from feeling like he did good) and he just wanted to help her.. And then he sang SK with her as well.

I think Sheldon doesn't mind doing nice things for people when necessary.