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Old 05-02-2012, 08:25 PM
  #196
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I agree Zipporah! Excellent post!
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Old 05-02-2012, 08:29 PM
  #197
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Welcome to the thread, zipporah grace, and I hope that not really all you have to say because I like what you have to say.

The angry speech in the cafeteria and Shelly's worry when he could not reach Amy are my favorite things from TIP. Yep, even more so that the negotiation and cuddling.
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Old 05-02-2012, 08:44 PM
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Well I'm a bit of a talkative person, so that is [B]definitely[B] not all that I have to say. But my brain is tired. I keep waiting for my beta-reader to respond, and I got impatient and had a friend correct my mistakes, but I don't want to look rude and just post. But I sort of want to post. BLAH

But, anyways, back to the Shamy. Sheldon is 10X happier than when we first met him, even in the pilot where his idiosyncrasies hadn't been set. He's done his full on laugh TWICE now. [B]TWICE.[B]

I also believe that while also possessing a koala face, Sheldon has an Amy face. Come on, you can totally see it.
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Old 05-02-2012, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zipporah grace (View Post)
Well I'm a bit of a talkative person, so that is [B]definitely[B] not all that I have to say. But my brain is tired. I keep waiting for my beta-reader to respond, and I got impatient and had a friend correct my mistakes, but I don't want to look rude and just post. But I sort of want to post. BLAH

But, anyways, back to the Shamy. Sheldon is 10X happier than when we first met him, even in the pilot where his idiosyncrasies hadn't been set. He's done his full on laugh TWICE now. [B]TWICE.[B]

I also believe that while also possessing a koala face, Sheldon has an Amy face. Come on, you can totally see it.
He totally has an Amy face. (And [B] [/ B] gives you bold. )
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zipporah grace (View Post)
Well I'm a bit of a talkative person, so that is [B]definitely[B] not all that I have to say. But my brain is tired. I keep waiting for my beta-reader to respond, and I got impatient and had a friend correct my mistakes, but I don't want to look rude and just post. But I sort of want to post. BLAH

But, anyways, back to the Shamy. Sheldon is 10X happier than when we first met him, even in the pilot where his idiosyncrasies hadn't been set. He's done his full on laugh TWICE now. [B]TWICE.[B]

I also believe that while also possessing a koala face, Sheldon has an Amy face. Come on, you can totally see it.
What a way to make an entrance!

Welcome Zipporah Grace.....and I totally agree with you, esp the highlighted part!
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:23 PM
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Hi everyone! I knew that I could sense some analysis going on somewhere! I'm loving this discussion, and I would love, if you all don't mind, to put in my two (or three or four) cents.

So as for Sheldon's view on marriage, I certainly agree that he is not closed off to it, simply because we don't have any evidence to even speculate to this conclusion. In fact, he doesn't seem to protest marriage at all. He has attended weddings before (and probably complained about the party more than the actual marriage). He hasn't once chided Howard for getting married, as we would expect someone who is anti-marriage to do.

If I'm just guessing, I do think he finds value in marriage. Little allusions to marriage in his speech certainly point to some sort of understanding or acceptance of it as a concept. And yes, Howard is getting married, so marriage I'm sure is on everyone's brain...but remember, this is Sheldon, and what is so shocking about him alluding to marriage, is the fact that if he weren't in a romantic relationship with Amy, we would probably not have even see Sheldon honoring any pre-wedding social convention, like the Stag party, but most certainly not implying that he saw himself married at some point.

Now I said that I thought he found value in marriage, but that doesn't mean I picture him in pj's with ice cream flipping through bridal magazines, either (you're welcome for that image, by the way). What I mean is that I think what he probably values most about the idea of marriage is the stability that it can offer a relationship.

This is where Sheldon's childhood comes into play. Yes, Sheldon's primary model of a marriage (his parents) was not a positive one, but that doesn't mean that his idea of marriage is tainted. For many children of divorce, or rough marriages, it's not the institution of marriage that is faulty, it's the people involved in it. This means that they will have trouble in relationships, because they have issues with allowing someone to get too close or trusting someone enough to enter into a relationship in the first place. If they can get past that, then the idea of getting married is easy, and even something that is striven for (they crave the stability of a successful partnership because they lacked that growing up) I think Sheldon can easily identify the issues in his parents' marriage, and he does not identify himself as someone to repeat those issues (alcoholism, sexual infidelity).

Now, Sheldon has placed a great deal of trust and has allowed himself to get very close to Amy, despite what we would expect with him having such deep trust issues. I honestly think this is because he has gone so extreme in his social isolation, he has allowed himself to be so cut off from emotional attachments for most of his life, that it came back to bite him. His inner self craved that emotion, that closeness, that attachment, but he always suppressed that craving because of his bad experiences as a child from bullying. To save himself the emotional trauma, he built a wall, a defense mechanism, to isolate himself from relationships, and the fear of the pain (trust issues in play here) involved in maintaining those relationships. This is where his little superiority complex comes in. It's painful to believe that he can't get close to people because of the pain they cause him, and the fear of rejection and that pain. It's much easier to believe that it's because he's so much more evolved than everyone else, and it's THEIR problem that they can't relate to him. But that's a defense mechanism...it's fake...and defense mechanisms never fix the actual problem. All of this time, he still craved that emotional intimacy, as we all do. No one can escape it, because at it's most basic level, it's evolutionary...and as much as Sheldon would like to believe, he is not more evolved (but as a side note, even if he was, the need for human companionship would/could never be weeded out through evolution, and Sheldon is smart enough to know this, meaning that I feel like he truly doesn't believe in his own Homo Novus BS in the first place).

What I'm getting to here, is that the need for intimacy never went away, in fact it was highly suppressed. So when he finally met a person that sparked his interest, someone that he felt a connection with, based on sheer initial similarities and shared personal experience, he involuntarily latched onto her with everything his little damaged subconscious mind had. His closeness, and emotional distress after her leaving him after only a few months points to this, and since then he has displayed nothing but more closeness with her, and has displayed a great amount of trust in her, to be able to become as vulnerable as he we have seen him get with her this season. So the emotional attachment is there, and the trust is there (despite all odds), and those are the two biggest problems that children of broken or dysfunctional marriages face in relationships, so if he has gotten past those things so quickly, I have no problem believing that he would have no problems with marriage based on his poor example of a marriage from his childhood.

Moreover, I think that he would take great comfort in the stability of marriage. One thing that his childhood did instill in him, is the craving for safety and stability. He doesn't respond well to change. Amy has arguably become the biggest part of his life over the past year, and has unarguably been the biggest change he has made. He's not going to let go of her, (and he'll fight to the death for her to not let go of him) because now that he has what he has with her, if that relationship were to end, outside of the emotional damage it would cause, his sense of safety and stability would be compromised because he has made a great effort to accommodate her and make her a stable part of his life. He needs that stability more than anything, and that's not something that is ever going to change. This is the reason for his roommate agreement with Leonard. This is the reason for his relationship agreement with Amy, and it certainly would be a reason to make the thought of a legally binding marriage with her an enticing one.

Now, on to the question of whether or not he is a romantic. I think that many of us might go back and forth on this because Sheldon, as we have seen him, is both a romantic and completely anti-romantic. He has two distinct sides. He has the 'Dr. Sheldon Cooper' who is who he projects to the world. This is his rigid and structured, highly intelligent, logical, and socially detached exterior. Then we have the Sheldon that we have only seen glimpses of in prior seasons, but have gotten to see a lot more of as his relationship with Amy has progressed. This is the Sheldon that giggles and smiles, and says sorry (and means it), and cuddles with his girlfriend, and worries about her getting eaten by a bobcat. That vulnerable, inner side of him, what I like to think of as the 'real Sheldon', I believe possesses quite a few romantic qualities. I think he really likes the idea of being attached to (or enslaved by) Amy. A main quality of a romantic is envy. Someone who is romantic typically displays a great deal of jealousy in regard to anything in his life that he is passionate about. Sheldon has shown this protective envy in regards to science, his mother, and yes, very clearly, Amy.

A romantic also displays a great deal of emotion and sees the world through his emotions. I think this is where I cannot definitively say that he is a romantic. Yes, Sheldon, when in a vulnerable state, can show deep emotion. But for the most part, even the inner Sheldon struggles with emotions, and to a romantic, expressing emotions is like breathing, it's how they see the world...and I certainly don't see Sheldon as being that way.

But again, I think that there are very few people who can call themselves true romantics, anyway. I think Sheldon does possess the qualities associated with a certain romanticism, and the more we see him progress in his relationship with Amy, the more I think we'll see him embrace those qualities...and yes, it can certainly lead to him seeing marriage as an ideal option in the future.

Now, while I am thinking about it, and Rae sort of brought it up and made me think of it:

Quote:
Even before they were of a romantic nature (assuming they are...which I do), his feelings were so deep that he went out and bought 25 cats to replace her...and that's not to mention that they had only actually been hanging out for like a month...
I've been wanting to do this for a while, and while I'm on my psychology roll, what better time than now? I believe (as I'm certain we all do) that Sheldon is having romantic feelings for Amy, and is in romantic love with her. Well before his slow-poke self can figure that out, I can prove that he is...with SCIENCE!!! (albeit social science, but science, nonetheless )

Now first let me make this little distinction. There are many different ways you can look at love, but for the sake of this discussion, I'm going to look at love in two categories: Romantic Love and Committed Love. Most individuals operate in one of the two states exclusively, but I feel that because of Sheldon's deep need for stability, and his hesitance to jump into romantic feelings (they are coming upon him without his control, I'm thinking), I actually think that he and Amy are operating simultaneously within both types of love.

Romantic love, in this context, is the gooey, mushy love that people write sonnets about. But in all reality. Romantic love is not really 'romantic' at all. This kind of love...the rush, the spark, the electricity, the falling in love phenomenon and all of the emotions and physiological responses associated with it, is really more of a evolutionary chemical process.

The early stages of romantic love in the brain has been studied to death and back, and what most research has found is that it's a highly evolutionary goal-oriented process--the goal being obtaining and maintaining a mate. The brain sets goals for the relationship (moving to different levels, establishing more closeness, intimacy), and when those goals are met, the brain releases chemicals like dopamine (that makes you super happy) to reward you for reaching that goal, and to motivate you to continue on with the process, so that you will successfully bond with your mate, thus attributing to the survival of the species. Conversely, if a goal is not met, or the main goal (obtaining your mate) is perceived as threatened, then the brain will open itself to worry, anxiety, feelings of jealousy, loss, and even depression, in order to motivate you to move forward and keep trying to pursue the goal in the face of adversity. (Now how people handle those negative emotions depends highly on how they have learned to cope with such stress in their own lives...Sheldon never developed healthy coping skills...hence the 25 cats after his relationship with Amy was dissolved...his goal threatened. If he had proper coping skills, and the ability to work through his feelings in a healthy way, then he would have done what his evolutionary brain was trying to tell him to do, and go and get Amy back...I guess that's where moms come in haha)

Now I am convinced and can prove that Sheldon is certainly experiencing this type of love with Amy. This is a list of the characteristics of people who are in romantic love (as defined in the context above):

1. focused attention on the preferred individual--Sheldon spends much of his free time with Amy, and is intently focused on her when she is around, while conversely is distracted when he cannot get in touch with her.

2. rearrangement of priorities--Sheldon changed his rigid schedule to include a date night with her, regularly breaks his routine to accommodate her.

3. Increased energy, noticeable shift in mood--Physics mad libs, anyone? It's hard not to notice Sheldon's new demeanor.

4. Sympathetic nervous system responses--While we cannot be sure of Sheldon's heart rate, I can clearly notice his general nervousness around her during big moments in their relationship (when he asked her to be his girlfriend). There's a lot of shifting in his seat, and eye movement.

5. Emotional Dependence-- Twenty-five. Cats. Enough said.

6. Elevated sexual desire--Looking at the universe naked, followed by that shudder...yep. Haha

7. Sexual Possessiveness--'She is not for you!' also, his worry that she and Stuart were going to share more pumpkin lattes, or have intercourse on their date.

8. Obsessive thinking about him/her-- Pretty much all of TFSA, his obsessing over Stuart and Amy...also his near obsessive need to contact her when she's not available.

9. Craving emotional union with the individual--Spending great amount of time with Amy, going to her for advice...both point to his need to have that emotional attachment.

10. Affiliative gestures (establishing that they are bonded in some way)--asking her to be his girlfriend, the relationship agreement, 'She is not for you!' all fall under the category of affiliative gestures.

11. Goal-oriented gestures-- Sheldon wanting to keep her away from other men (goal), by making her his girlfriend...his attempt to appease (goal) her by shopping for a gift for her aunt's party, and trying to find a way that he could go, despite his own protests.

12. Intense motivation to obtain and maintain this particular mating partner--Asking her to be his girlfriend, buying her a tiara to try to right his wrong, apologizing sincerely to her, offering her coupons to try to keep her happy.

It's important to note that a person is considered to be very much in a state of deep romantic love if they only fulfill 6 out of those 12 characteristics--and Sheldon fulfills every single one. So there you have it...proven by science...(now if only Sheldon can figure it out).

So based in this, I obviously feel like the man is head over heels...but the thing about romantic love, is that it is quite common, and often fleeting. It's also based very much on involuntary feelings rather than a conscious choice. This is where Committed Love comes in and why I think that Sheldon and Amy are actually simultaneously involved in both kinds of love, which is rare.

The most fitting description of Committed Love that I have ever found is that it is 'stirring the oatmeal-love'--meaning that it is the kind of love that exists between two people when they are doing the most mundane activities, and even when nothing special is happening at all. Committed love is not exciting, like romantic love is, but it's the kind of love that sticks. It's the sort of love that makes sitting in silence for 6 hours a 'magical evening'. Whereas romantic love is based very much on chemical processes and involuntary emotions, committed love is based on the conscious decision to want to be with that person. I think that this is the kind of love that Sheldon initially felt for Amy, and still very much does. For most people it's the other way around--they come for the romantic love, and stay for the committed love. But with Sheldon, and all of his walls blocked up against feelings and emotions, it makes sense that he would experience committed love first, because it's very controlled and safe. The committed love has stayed, as it always does, but now I think that he feels safe enough to let some of his walls down (as we have seen him do all season), he is starting to be more open to that involuntary, romantic love, and the feelings and behaviors associated with it--and I think the realization of this is what we have to look forward to with them, because it's going to hit Sheldon like a ton of bricks.

ETA:

Lio--I pretty much reiterated everything you said about the marriage issue, now that I read you latest post haha. (Wooo for twin power!!! Hahaha)

Zipporah Grace--Welcome!!!! I love your post so so so so much...please stick around and keep saying things and never ever leave!!!

Last edited by megfsc; 05-02-2012 at 09:40 PM
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:24 PM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zipporah grace (View Post)
I also believe that while also possessing a koala face, Sheldon has an Amy face. Come on, you can totally see it.

Agreed. And while the koala face is just slightly creepy, I much prefer his Amy face since he looks perfectly relaxed and happy then.



BTW...


Quote:
I think Sheldon is a pakipot. It's pakipot, right? What is a tsundere? Is a tsundere that male version of a pakipot??! How do you pronounce both words?
Pakipot is Tagalog, while tsundere [ツンデレ] is Japanese slang, so both words are pronounced as they are written. [Tsu sounds a lot like su.]

Pakipot is like hard-to-get, the description of someone you need to chase, to butter up, to win over their affections, to break down to open up to you. Keep in mind that they probably liked you from the very beginning, but will outwardly resist you every step of the way. The term mostly applies to girls, and is rarely used on guys [but times are changing, so I hear the word used to describe guys lately]. It was traditionally expected behavior of girls, when they're being courted. It has a more demure/sweet image, than tsundere, which is pretty harsh.

Tsundere is a unisex term, though more popularly used for girls. In fanfics, whenever Sheldon holds Amy's hand/gets jealous and quotes some part of the RA instead of simply saying he wanted to/doesn't want to lose her, that's pretty tsundere. Heck, Sheldon trying to keep on his displeased face during Amy's campaign in this upcoming episode looks tsundere. His outburst in TIP is definitely tsundere, he's angry because of the disruption in his work and Lego fun time y'know, it's totally not like he was so worried about Amy and distressed that she was hurt. It's used to describe both the difference between the outer attitude and inner feelings, as well as the evolution of one's demeanor towards a certain special person [from cold and prickly, to warm and cuddly].

I'd write a high school AU fanfic if only to capitalize on Sheldon's tsundere aspect.

EDIT:

Whoa, Meg's analysis just proved that Sheldon's romantic love for Amy is beyond deep.

This is the kind of awesome analysis that has been making those who lurk here complain in other places about how Shamy shippers are obnoxious and always making inane conclusions just because they're canon, etc. Because I guess, people resort to insults when there's nothing else they can say?


To quote Sokka: Flamey-o Meg, flamey-o.
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:33 PM
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Welcome, zipporah_grace! Great posts! I definitely agree with your points in both of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moyrani (View Post)
The angry speech in the cafeteria and Shelly's worry when he could not reach Amy are my favorite things from TIP. Yep, even more so that the negotiation and cuddling.
Those are my favorite parts too! Especially Sheldon being worried. The way he says "who thinks Amy was eaten by a bobcat!?" in particular just kills me. He's so terrified! It makes my heart hurt. In a good way.

Oh no, wait! I forgot! My REAL favorite part, quick as it may be, is the way they look at each other when Amy comments about him making degenerative brain maladies funny. Their smiles! It seriously makes me weak in the knees every time.

I don't know! THE WHOLE EPISODE IS MY FAVORITE PART. I just...guh. I really love TIP.

Anyway, less than twenty-four hours to the new episode! Who's pumped? I know I am!

EDIT: Wow, Meg! That analysis is absolutely perfect.
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:46 PM
  #204
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BTW, both Chloe and Zipporah haven't been added to the list? Would you like to be? And anyone else?
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:51 PM
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Well, there you go. Dear Meg has provided conclusive scientific evidence that Shelly is in love with Amy. Not only that, he is commited. I am just going to quote a wise man called Joey Russo: WHOA!




What better way to begin this Thursday than this!?!?

Kath - Haters are going to hate but I do not care!


Chloe - that little moment in the cafeteria between the two of them, which is in the OP btw, is a perfect example of Sheldon's Amy face.
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:52 PM
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I'd definitely like to be added! Thanks.
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:55 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moyrani (View Post)
Well, there you go. Dear Meg has provided conclusive scientific evidence that Shelly is in love with Amy. Not only that, he is commited. I am just going to quote a wise man called Joey Russo: WHOA!




What better way to begin this Thursday than this!?!?

Kath - Haters are going to hate but I do not care!


Chloe - that little moment in the cafeteria between the two of them, which is in the OP btw, is a perfect example of Sheldon's Amy face.

Look who's happy, our own tsundere in the Shamy thread! You couldn't really stay prickly and unhappy, now can you?


Quote:
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I'd definitely like to be added! Thanks.
Moyra, make it so!
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:05 PM
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Added you, Chloe!

Who said anything about happiness? I just said "Whoa" and promptly fainted.
I think I rather like being Tsundere.
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:08 PM
  #209
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I would be honoured to join the list! Make it so, I beg of you!
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:09 PM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genki-escapist (View Post)
Whoa, Meg's analysis just proved that Sheldon's romantic love for Amy is beyond deep.

This is the kind of awesome analysis that has been making those who lurk here complain in other places about how Shamy shippers are obnoxious and always making inane conclusions just because they're canon, etc. Because I guess, people resort to insults when there's nothing else they can say?
Kath - Wait, who is calling Meg obnoxious? OBNOXIOUS?! Anyone feel like pointing me in the right direction and allowing me to go off? Provided this is off-fan forum?

Meg - That's the power of the Quad Squad baby. I started reading your post and was like.... "Wait? Didn't I just say this? Wait, is this my post?" Congratulations, though, I think yours is longer. I love all the second half, as usual. Your psychology rolls are THE BEST. It's funny, last week when Chloe first posted, and practically her first words were, "you post such long and insightful posts it's a little intimidating," and then literally the next post was one of yours, being this MEGA BLOCK of patented pure Meggy goodness, I was going to post, "Good job, Twin Unit #4. We don't want to be intimidating or anything. Nice."

But I was too sick at the time to even manage to post that, so I did not. And, luckily, Chloe has managed to stick to her guns and stay around, so we're all good.

:pats the Chloe Gem. What color is a Chloe Gem? I must now go muse on that question:

:shakes fist: But I will out talk you next time, Twin Unit #4! !TWIN WARS! I swear it!

Yes, every so often we're still competitive. Anyway.

We all agree that there is definitely an "Amy Face," and we all love it. Actually, wasn't that an idea for a thread title once?

Also - Welcome, Zippy G! Hope you don't mind that I call you Zippy G.
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