koops

I loved W&G but that finale was so disappointingly cheesy. If we get a flashforward with Shamy and Lenny's kids getting married I'm going to shoot myself.

lancer1993

Wasn't a fan of the W&G final. Friends was okay but I hated that R&R didn't get back together until the final. ER was good and from memory it was just another day. Seinfeld was a classic ending with the gang locked up for a year. At the time I was convinced the show would take a year off then come back as they were released

I'd settle for a classic ending where they all move on, maybe L&P have just married and move out of the building, or to the next floor. Howie/Bernie have a kid. Raj in a relationship and Shamy decided to have a baby.

Get in line!

Lionne

What....did I start here?! And how did I do that?

Ah, I see Nic fixed it - but too late, Nic! I saw that earlier today. But I was on the iPad and I couldn't bring myself to try to type up something on the iPad. But yes, so we can blame the NicLio for this...the NicLio...a strange and fearsome creature which combines the sheer awesome powers of Nicole and Lio...although...I don't know what those super powers are in the first place, so...maybe it's not so fearsome....or maybe those powers are a MYSTERY and so...yes, we will....strike terror into your heart with the knowledge you don't know what our powers ARE! So they can strike at any time, in any way! Such as with threads about babies....

So. Babies.

Lord, I cannot believe I'm going to comment on this, but here goes.

Usually I would agree with this. If Bernadette had put her foot down firmly about children, then I would agree. However, it's obvious that Howard would like them, and so as a couple they came to a compromise. So I would like to see that play out. I'd like to see both of them focus on their work and each other, and just enjoy being married for 2 more seasons, and then they can return to the children topic. If they go through with Bernadette getting pregnant, but Howard quits his job to raise them, that would be right to what they agreed. Or if they adopt. However, whatever happens there, it'll be interesting and I hope they find a solution which is right for them as a couple.

However, I see kids as a maker-breaker issue in any marriage, and it should be discussed prior to marriage. Howard and Bernadette did, and Howard was not kidding when he was considering not going through with the marriage for that reason. Bernadette gave him her compromise, and he accepted it. However, considering that it'll mean Howard has to stay home to raise and kids when they do have them, I can see him not being ready to give up his job. So I imagine it'll be awhile before they revisit this issue.

Not to mention that most places do not want to deal with having a baby on set, nor having to deal with a baby as a character to "write for" or constantly deal with or having to make sure doesn't become the disappearing baby, so I don't think that they will be in any hurry to revisit the issue on the show. However, that's not really the point. The point is that I disagree with you that Bernadette decided point blank she will not ever have kids - that's not what she decided for herself. She decided she could have a child and that Howard would be the one to quit his job and raise them, she would not.

WeBuiltThePyramids

I do agree the compromise might be brought up at some point, but I still don't see Howard really, actually going through with quitting his job and being a stay at home dad. He is belittled enough (and it bothers him) about only having a master's degree, and about being the trophy husband, and I don't see him further going down 'that path' by giving up his job and being the stay at home dad, especially since they aren't living with his mother and, like Brit said, he's not really independent enough himself to be responsible for another person. Plus on top of that, I kinda got the vibe from him that he partly wants kids because he feels you're supposed to - just like Bernadette is supposed to do his laundry and buy his food and take him to his medical appointments. So when you get married, you're supposed to have kids. I haven't watched that ep in a while, but I remember not really getting the sense that having kids was something that he needed for himself.

And like I've said before, it seems (not judging or pointing fingers, just stating what I see) that the general mindset on this is "Howard wants them, so I want H/B to have kids, if Howard didn't want them, then it'd be okay," whereas I don't think Bernadette needs to be the one to 'give in'. Sure, Howard wants them, but Bernadette doesn't want them, and that's just as valid an opinion as Howard's. Like has been said, you can't really meet halfway when it comes to children, they're an absolute state, both of them would have to be parents, no matter who keeps up their job, and Bernadette just doesn't like kids. If it comes to one of them going along with what the other wants, I want it to be Howard going with Bernadette, rather than the other way around.

SargeantFuzzyBoots

And Howard did say, to argue his point, "I mean, people have kids." Not that that should necessarily discount his desire for them, but again, it makes me want to see where he stands later on in the series.

Unless Bernie warms to kids, it's probably better that they don't have them simply because it probably wouldn't be the best environment for their children if one parent was of the firm opinion that kids were a burden who ruined her body. The compromise they currently have doesn't seem to create a very healthy scenario for anyone at this point.

WeBuiltThePyramids

Yeah, I'm not ruling out the possibility that having kids is something he really wants (I really want them and I've had my share of 'stop being a stereotypical woman' crap from people) and he may want them for good reasons (I don't consider 'people have kids' a good reason), but that wasn't the vibe I got from him. I'll definitely be interested to see what he says if it comes up again.

And yeah, I agree. You really don't want to find out that one of your parents really didn't want to have you - one of my friends has a father who didn't really want her, and their family life is rough at best.

Paycheckgurl

True. However I've always interrupted Howard wanting kids to be a byproduct of the importance he puts on family and wanting to be the dad his wasn't. He's better at caring for others than we give him credit for-he really didn't have to stay with his mom he felt obligated to (and he's grown out of the be expected to be cared for thing a lot-by the time he and Bernie would be ready it'd probably be mostly gone). I can't see them going through with Howard quitting his job unless it was at the very end of the series though, because it messes with the workcom aspect of the show (even though that was the agreement and honestly what I'd like to see happen because it's what they decided on). However, I could an episode or two where Bernie warms up to the idea. We know she CAN be parental because we've seen her deal with Sheldon, it's just she doesn't want to be-which is an oppinion that over time, the writers may or may not decide to have evolve. Maybe she'll meet with one of her siblings and realize that being so hard on them she messed up. Or as I said before, Bernadette plays Auntie for a future child of L/P and towards the finalie realizes it won't be all bad. The compromise could be adoption because that way Bernadette doesn't have to worry about materninty leave or her body, and maybe she'd agree to a slightly older kid because she feels she can connect better with them (and then the writers have dissipated the need to write for an infant). The reason I'm so against H/B not having kids is because I keep thinking about Howard. I'd personally rather the scale tip towards him for once (also I want all three main couples plus Raj to have kids together so...).

Musickat18

I would say that Howard seriously considering calling off hsi marriage to Bernadette is a good indicator that he actually does want kids. While I do agree that Bernadette's opinion is just as valid, and that people shouldn't have kids if they don't want them, she was the one to come up with the compromise because she knew how much it meant to Howard. The problem I had (and still have) is that her compromise didn't really seem to work for Howard. He wasn't that thrilled with it. At the time it aired, and even now, I was upset at the supposed resolution. I don't like that there's such a huge issue that's basically unresolved. As has been said, that's the kind of thing that makes or breaks a marriage. In order to come to a good resolution, they're (the writers) going to have to have one or the other change their mind. I honestly don't care which one. Could be they have to watch someone's kid, or meet a former friend who's now bedraggled, and Howard says "nevermind" or, Penny and Leonard have a kid and Bernadette starts cooing despite herself and she says "lets have a baby" but they simply cannot keep the two of them with their same opinions and have us believe the marriage is successful. (IMO)

WeBuiltThePyramids

I hope that one of those two happens - I really don't see them being the first to have kids just because of how different they are in that respect, but if Leonard/Penny, Shamy, or Raj/someone (this is in the order of likelihood in my opinion) had a kid, that would be a good way to revisit it - either Howard changes his mind, or Bernie changes hers. They could just never bring it up again, which I can't say I'm positive won't happen - and I don't want them to never address it again, but as L/P and Shamy are the writers' babies, I could see them feeling as if they've already addressed it and never have it come up again.

In my The Parental Ambition, I had Bernie gradually warming to the idea during Penny's pregnancy and having her at the end say she might be open to it, but the same circumstances that are preventing Leonard and Penny from getting married in the sequel (for you guys that aren't reading it, Amy had depression for a while, Gilda (from the unaired pilot)'s daughter went missing, Wyatt had a heart attack, Penny got pregnant again, and some other stuff) are preventing Howard and Bernadette from having kids because there's always something else going on. I don't really know how I'm going to end their part of that fic. This thread might actually be of help for that.

fetch

None of them should have kids IMO... mainly Sheldon.

FoxPhile

Something about this thread just struck me as funny....

While not the ONLY show to which this applies, Big Bang must be one of the few where a discussion around the characters eventually having babies would actually include spirited and thoughtful debate on the HOW question.





You may now resume your spirited and thoughtful debate.

WeBuiltThePyramids

I did that on purpose. How can you not bring that up in the rare occasion that you can? Although I guess any show it could apply if you consider adoption or surrogacy as the 'how'.

lancer1993

I think at some point Shamy will have sex but they will use a test tube to have a baby and I wouldn't be surprised if they are the first couple to have a kid.

FoxPhile

I know Sheldon talked to Penny about the idea of having a child with Amy, but has he actually even talked to Amy about it?

Musickat18

I think he said that the idea was his and Amy's (to have a test tube baby). Have they talked about it since? Who knows.