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Old 10-04-2018, 07:20 AM
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Episode 12.03: The Procreation Calculation - 10/4/18

“The Procreation Calculation”

PENNY AND LEONARD’S MARRIAGE IS PUT TO THE TEST, ON “THE BIG BANG THEORY,” THURSDAY, OCT. 4

Keith Carradine Returns as Penny’s Father, Wyatt



The Wolowitzes’ life gets complicated when Stuart starts bringing his new girlfriend home. Also, Penny and Leonard talk about starting a family while Koothrappali explores an arranged marriage.

REGULAR CAST:
Johnny Galecki (Leonard)
Jim Parsons (Sheldon)
Kaley Cuoco (Penny)
Simon Helberg (Wolowitz)
Kunal Nayyar (Koothrappali)
Mayim Bialik (Amy)
Melissa Rauch (Bernadette)

RECURRING CAST:
Kevin Sussman (Stuart)
Keith Carradine (Wyatt)
Lauren Lapkus (Denise)

GUEST CAST:
Rati Gupta (Anu)
Matt Knudsen (Waiter)

STORY BY: Chuck Lorre, Tara Hernandez, Adam Faberman
TELEPLAY BY: Steve Holland, Maria Ferrari, Anthony Del Broccolo
DIRECTED BY: Mark Cendrowski

Promo, Sneak Peeks, Promotional Photos + Press Release
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Old 10-04-2018, 09:16 AM
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So excited! Thanks, Martin.
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Old 10-04-2018, 01:35 PM
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TFTNT! Wow, this whole episode is chock full of our favorite nerds thinking about the future, moving forward.

Oh that I could do so as easily!
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Old 10-04-2018, 01:48 PM
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TFTNT! I totally forgot to check this morning to see if someone had opened.
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Old 10-04-2018, 05:12 PM
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Yeah deep down Raj doesn't want this.

I'm Jekyll & Hyde on the Lenny story.

Jekyll admires Leonard processing this maturely (later on anyways) on how he might not have kids, but there's lots of things he never thought would happen. Like being married to Penny. In other words, Penny is who she loves first, more than the ideal perfect life with smart & beautiful babies.

But Hyde is still a little bitter about the idea that Lenny might not have kids by the end of the series.

Though I loved Penny renting the batmobile for Leonard. Which also resonates with me more now, knowing she's voicing Harley Quinn in the DC cartoon.

Like seeing Leonard love Penny more than the ideal life with Penny. Even if I have mixed feelings about it.

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Old 10-04-2018, 05:39 PM
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I agree. Raj isn't feeling this. He is going along with it because he is, as Chandler Bing would say, hopeless and awkward and desperate for love.

I liked this episode a lot but for the first time in seven years I'm worrying a bit about Leonard and Penny. I wanted to love that he said he wants her more than any dream life he has created in his head. But disagreeing on kids has torn so many couples apart, even years after the initial discussion, even if they seem "good" on that front. Resentment happens, and it builds. I had said previously that I would be fine with them not having kids as long as they were both 100% on that...and that isn't what happened.

Star of the episode, Bernadette, as usual.
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Old 10-04-2018, 05:50 PM
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I agree. Raj isn't feeling this. He is going along with it because he is, as Chandler Bing would say, hopeless and awkward and desperate for love.

I liked this episode a lot but for the first time in seven years I'm worrying a bit about Leonard and Penny. I wanted to love that he said he wants her more than any dream life he has created in his head. But disagreeing on kids has torn so many couples apart, even years after the initial discussion, even if they seem "good" on that front. Resentment happens, and it builds. I had said previously that I would be fine with them not having kids as long as they were both 100% on that...and that isn't what happened.

Star of the episode, Bernadette, as usual.
Part of me hopes that by the end of the series Penny will come around to the idea of having kids (Kaley BTS has said she'd love for her & Leonard to have a child, it's the working kids she's not crazy about), but I'm hesitant on getting my hopes up only to be disappointed.
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Old 10-04-2018, 05:52 PM
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It was a good episode and I enjoyed all the plots.

But yeah, this has me worried about the longevity of Leonard and Penny's relationship. It was sweet how they ended things and the Batmobile bit was great, but after years of Leonard always wanting kids and a family I just can't see him being okay with this long-term, especially since Penny had said in the past that she did think about and want to have kids someday to him before.

And it doesn't seem like Penny's going to change her mind about this. Although, then again, I always thought Bernadette would never change her mind about kids, but she did once she had them.

I do think this episode was written to delay Leonard and Penny having kids for awhile since they've done two pregnancy storylines in quick succession and didn't know this would be the last season when they wrote it. However, now that it is the last season, they might end up changing it so that Penny either changes her mind or has a surprise pregnancy. With the way they've presented this storyline, I could see them getting a lot of backlash for having Penny change her mind since she does now represent women who are fulfilled without having kids.
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Old 10-04-2018, 05:57 PM
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It was a good episode and I enjoyed all the plots.

But yeah, this has me worried about the longevity of Leonard and Penny's relationship. It was sweet how they ended things and the Batmobile bit was great, but after years of Leonard always wanting kids and a family I just can't see him being okay with this long-term, especially since Penny had said in the past that she did think about and want to have kids someday to him before.

And it doesn't seem like Penny's going to change her mind about this. Although, then again, I always thought Bernadette would never change her mind about kids, but she did once she had them.

I do think this episode was written to delay Leonard and Penny having kids for awhile since they've done two pregnancy storylines in quick succession and didn't know this would be the last season when they wrote it. However, now that it is the last season, they might end up changing it so that Penny either changes her mind or has a surprise pregnancy. With the way they've presented this storyline, I could see them getting a lot of backlash for having Penny change her mind since she does now represent women who are fulfilled without having kids.
I agree going back on this decision now would get a lot of backlash, and now that they've taken it in this direction I kinda don't want them to reverse it, because I do agree with the idea that childfree is not less fulfilling and you don't need kids to be whole. But with the way they did this episode, I just really don't see Leonard actually being okay with it. It's bound to come up again in an argument, or when Shamy or Raj has kids. And while he cannot force her to have kids and shouldn't feel entitled to both her AND kids, she also cannot force him to be as okay with being childfree as her, and it is entirely possible this could break their marriage. And that isn't the kind of unease I like to have about my OTP.

They have a lot of differences they are okay with. But a family is a much more serious thing to disagree on than whether or not something is costume or cosplay.
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Old 10-04-2018, 06:04 PM
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Well, I sit here staring at 30 like a deer does headlights and this show is here to remind me that married or single, children or not, 'grown ups' don't have the answers. They make the best of whatever hand they were given and never stop dreaming of driving the Batmobile.

Hey, I have my reservations about Leonard and Penny having different opinions on kids. Of course I'm not confident Raj can be happy with someone as practical and unsentimental as Anu. But for my own sake, I need to believe that they are going to be okay when all is said and done.
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Old 10-04-2018, 06:10 PM
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Selfishly, I've wanted them to have kids since the pilot, and that feeling is especially heightened with this being the final season, so it does make me very sad that Penny doesn't want kids even though that's totally okay for her or any other woman. I personally wouldn't be upset if she did change her mind for this bias of course, but I also think women should be allowed to change their mind about kids as much as they want and any which way they want be it not wanting kids, but then deciding you do want them, or always wanting kids and they realizing you don't want them. But, as I said, I think that choice would garner a lot of criticism, which I get because representation is important, but it is unfortunate that a woman's personal opinion about kids is so highly scrutinized.

All of that to say, with them knowing it's the final season now, I think they might change it, but they'd probably go the surprise pregnancy route like they did with Bernadette and her not wanting kids.
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Old 10-04-2018, 06:13 PM
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I agree going back on this decision now would get a lot of backlash
Eh if it's portrayed as a biological clock ticking moment for her (whether through a surprise pregnancy or her having "a moment" where it clicks for her) I think she's entitled to change her mind back. I said in another thread this came off as a period where she's being reminded about all the negativity involving kids (Halley & Michael specifically) guiding her towards feeling this way. I can easily see her changing her mind just as much as staying the course.
Somehow I get the feeling that peoples (friends & family) expectations of what they think she should do are pushing her away on this more than anything else. (Think how Leonard's clinginess could push her away in early seasons- now imagine that with more than 1 person? Scary huh?)

She's changed her mind on whether she likes her job a couple times according to TPTB.

But like you guys I'm also nervous about Lenny. But it's also possible we're shortchanging Leonard being able to adapt to this.

I suppose I'd be less disappointed with this episode if Penny left the possibility open that she might change her mind.

I agree with her that not everyone needs to have a child to feel fulfilled with their life, but I'm not sure her current job/life as it is right now is really that fulfilling for her.
She goes back and forth between liking her job and hating it.
She never is seen thinking this job is what she truly wants to do with her life (unlike the other 6 who work in fields they're passionate about), and has never explored what else she might want to do.
She & Leonard rarely are seen doing any activities they both like together, or at the very least taking initiative in doing things the other person likes, even if they don't necessaily like the activity themselves.
Someone brought up how the group dynamics/proximity have played a role in them being together (their friends are each others friends) & how if those friends all separated it would put a strain on their relationship. I don't necessarily believe all of it, but it's is a fair point in all the friends being a catalyst in each others relationships. Can that always hold each others relationships together if a specific friend disappears from the equation?

Of course specific events can change dynamics. I thought Howardette's were possibly heading for an eventual separation in the septum deviation and their argument. And then real life wrote the plot with Howard's Mom dying which lead to them progressing their relationship to remodeling the house and living there. They also have jobs they are both passionate about.
All in all they have a fulfilling life even w/o children.

If she wants to claim that life doesn't need a child to feel fulfilling that's fine I agree. It just wouldn't be as disappointing IMO if her life right now reflected a life she finds fulfilling. Scratch that, it wouldn't be as disappointing if she was seen striving towards working for a life that is fulfilling on screen.

Last edited by meka3000; 10-04-2018 at 10:50 PM
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Old 10-05-2018, 05:47 AM
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Yeah I agree with that - Penny's logic to Leonard was "we are so great right now, why change that?" and I believe it in regards to their relationship, but your marriage isn't all that determined your happiness and she doesn't seem all that thrilled with anything in her life other than Leonard. And while sure I'm thrilled Leonard makes her that happy, I'm kinda sad that she really has nothing else. As you said, she can't even really decide if she likes her job or not.
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Old 10-05-2018, 06:15 AM
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Raj's story is getting silly. I don't know where they are going with this and I don't really care. But all in all this was such a great episode. Loved it!

With all the interviews pre season twelve, two past pregnancies and this being the last season, I feared they might go this route and make Leonard and Penny not have kids. I was prepared for that and it doesn't bother me (that much). Yes, it stings a bit, but ultimately whatever makes them happy makes me happy.

That said, I truly believe Leonard can be okay with this. I mean, did he ever actually want to have kids? He said all these crazy things like "our babies will be smart and beautiful", but I always associated that with his infatuation with Penny. As he said in the episode, he assumed he'd have kids. Most people think having kids when married is the right thing to do, but that's just what they get told. We've been watching these two for so many years and they are so happy. I don't think they need kids to maintain the status quo.
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Old 10-05-2018, 07:29 AM
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I hope you're right, Felix. At this point I'm just going with "Leonard never really wanted them either and hopefully he will realize that" because the alternative is a likely divorce and I don't want to think about that. When a couple truly has a difference when it comes to this, it's one of the number one dealbreakers in relationships, married or not. My doubt in that, though, comes from his revelation not being "you know, I thought about it and I'm not sure I actually want them either" but being "well I may never have kids but I have you," which makes it sound like he genuinely wants both kids and Penny but, at least for now, has chosen Penny. And a lot of people initially choose their partner over kids, but over time just come to resent that person and then the relationship ends. I've seen it happen too many times to completely throw away my uneasiness.
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