Jason Behr - Dreamers {Max/Liz} #11 - They saw into each other's souls. - Page 18

*Coccy* · 08-18-2009, 09:04 AM

true. It was a nice connection and was telling : see you can change the future like you want but M&L are meant to be you can't change their love.

**Crystaline** · 08-18-2009, 03:42 PM

I've always wondered how Kivar's plan with Nasedo and Tess fit in with the altered timeline. Was it always something that was supposed to happen or did Liz and Future!Max cause that by messing with future events? Or is it just a storyline TPTB didn't think through?

rainydreams · 08-18-2009, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crystaline (View Post)

I've always wondered how Kivar's plan with Nasedo and Tess fit in with the altered timeline. Was it always something that was supposed to happen or did Liz and Future!Max cause that by messing with future events? Or is it just a storyline TPTB didn't think through?

I think in the original timeline when M&L "cemented" their relationship it became obvious to Tess that she wan't going to be able to execute Khivar's plan. So, she gave up and left town. In the altered timeline, she stuck around because she thought she had a chance with Max (which, she subsequently did).

Either that, or it's very possible the TPTB didn't really think about it. In fact, I'd bet that I have given it much more thought then they ever did.

**Crystaline** · 08-18-2009, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainydreams (View Post)

I think in the original timeline when M&L "cemented" their relationship it became obvious to Tess that she wan't going to be able to execute Khivar's plan. So, she gave up and left town. In the altered timeline, she stuck around because she thought she had a chance with Max (which, she subsequently did).

Makes sense. Max and Liz didn't cement their relationship that night so the plan was still in tact. I find it hilariously insane that the fate of mankind was perched on Max and Liz's relationship. If that isn't epic, I don't know what is.

Quote:

Either that, or it's very possible the TPTB didn't really think about it. In fact, I'd bet that I have given it much more thought then they ever did.

I'm positive you did.

Sin* · 08-19-2009, 11:19 PM

That's another thing that is incredibly bothersome about the storyline. Are they now all doomed because Tess died and there is no "Four Square"? Now they can't even go back in time because they have no Granolith. So are they all just going to die in fourteen years? Is Kivar done with them? What the hell is going on.

*Coccy* · 08-20-2009, 05:58 AM

i don't think that the world ended because Tess wasn't there with them
i think that the world ended because Max&Co "alienated" everything related to their alien side (sorry

) and they didn't really develop the full potentiality of their powers (something that present Max will do since he made the decision, in the end of the series, to help people using his powers) to the point that they could really fight their enemies. They were unprepared. It's also possible that FMax&Co didn't get all the informations that present Max&Co got from certain events happened in the present like: wipe out, the harvest, Max in the city..... Maybe they didn't even know about Langley since Max met him only in the third season and only as a result of the events from busted and the fact itself that he needed to save his son, a son that in the first timeline didn't exist.
Also don't forget that the skins were supposed to take over the earth (if i'm not wrong) but in in the present timeline Max&co destroyed their new "bodies" (the harvest) and we know that without them the skins were destined to die, something that most likely happened later.
Even if some of them survived (but i doubt it because it was stated that they couldn't.) Max&Co now know how to kill them (and it's very easy

)

What Max&Co needed (and i think that in the current timeline they are like that) was a balance. Being free to live the way the wanted, to be who they wanted and love who they wanted but at the same time they needed to get more knowledge about their enemies and their potentialities.

it's possible that many of the things happened in this timeline didn't happen in the first one.
For example Liz developping powers. Even if it was meant to happen it's also true that she started to deveop them when she was stressed. Liz's powers, Liz's changes, were linked to her feelings. Since FLiz didn't live what Liz had lived (losing Max, losing her best friend.. and all the other drama) it's possible that even if she developed her powers it happened years later when it was too late for her to fully develop them, accept them, understand them. While present Liz, especially with Max's help, will be able to do it. We can say that if the group needed the number "four" then Liz can be the fourth alien.
what if Kyle will develop some powers too? and Valenti? and what about all the children that Max healed? All the people that he could still heal. If all the people that he healed will develop powers then Max basically created a big group of "heroes"

I also think that Tess' plan makes the difference too. In the first timeline she failed while in the present one she delivered Max's son to Kivar. The baby got rejected because he was totally human. What if that was what Kivar really wanted/hoped? Maybe he just wanted to prove that Max was too human to be a king (and it could make sense that the antarians would accept Kivar over max because they don't want to be ruled by someone who is another race), maybe he just wanted the proof that he wasn't a threat for him. Then even if the baby were alien or hybrid Kivar could have still used him in order to indirectly be the king.

definitely this timeline is all new.
the only constant thing that remained the same is Max&Liz love (that is even stronger now).

rainydreams · 08-20-2009, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sin* (View Post)

That's another thing that is incredibly bothersome about the storyline. Are they now all doomed because Tess died and there is no "Four Square"? Now they can't even go back in time because they have no Granolith. So are they all just going to die in fourteen years? Is Kivar done with them? What the hell is going on.

Everything is different in the altered timeline due to the changes that were made. Not even FMax could predict exactly what would happen after they changed things, because the future was heading down a completely different course. It's the "Butterfly Effect," you know? If even one small thing changes it has much larger ramifications for the future. And, everything that happened after EOTW did not happen in the original timeline, including the events of Harvest, as Coccy pointed out:

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Coccy*

Also don't forget that the skins were supposed to take over the earth (if i'm not wrong) but in in the present timeline Max&co destroyed their new "bodies" (the harvest) and we know that without them the skins were destined to die, something that most likely happened later.

Destroying the skins essentially "saved the world" IMO.

So, FMax was overly dramatic in his course-correction for the future. He could have just told Liz not to cement with Max at that moment, and, perhaps, to make sure that Tess didn't leave town. He didn't have to make Liz push Max completely away. So dumb.

**Crystaline** · 08-20-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainydreams (View Post)

Destroying the skins essentially "saved the world" IMO.

So, FMax was overly dramatic in his course-correction for the future. He could have just told Liz not to cement with Max at that moment, and, perhaps, to make sure that Tess didn't leave town. He didn't have to make Liz push Max completely away. So dumb.

Exactly. And it's like I always say. Future Max might've been hot, but he was a supreme moron.

**Crystaline** · 08-20-2009, 04:16 PM

Whoops! Double-post.

*Coccy* · 08-21-2009, 03:01 AM

honestly i think that M&L and their sexual life was none of Tess' business

along with all the other things. Tess needed to get real. She was the one with a problem and i don't understand why the others were supposed to sacrifice them selves for ONE (one who turned to be a traitor too). It was her the one who needed to change and accept the truth, not the others.
It was like.. so Tess is a whiny baby girl who wants the toy? lets give it to her. To bad that the toy actually was a person not an object.

everything Max&Co needed to do was to treat her better. If Max knew about FMax he could have tried to talk with her and make her understand. And if even then she didn't understand and wasn't collaborative then it wasn't their fault.
That storyline simply was one of the most stupid storyline ever created with the pathetic attempt to create a triangle where a triangle was never there.
It didn't even create the triangle because even after TEOTW it's not that the writers really developed M&T as a couple. They hardly created scenes with them as friends and only in the two episodes where Max was angry with Liz
even in MITC when they were alone together and he was still angry with Liz nothing had happened between them.

i think that the writers just wanted to put M&L apart for a year in order to create some angst for them. Tess only was a pretext but even the writers knew that M&T didn't make sense and they only put them 'together' when they already established that she was a traitor. But they never developed them as a real pair and it's not that they didn't get the time in all the other episodes from the second season.

rainydreams · 08-21-2009, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

honestly i think that M&L and their sexual life was none of Tess' business

along with all the other things. Tess needed to get real. She was the one with a problem and i don't understand why the others were supposed to sacrifice them selves for ONE (one who turned to be a traitor too). It was her the one who needed to change and accept the truth, not the others.
It was like.. so Tess is a whiny baby girl who wants the toy? lets give it to her. To bad that the toy actually was a person not an object.

So, right you are. Take the toy away from Tess. Don't give it to her!!! hehe

Quote:

everything Max&Co needed to do was to treat her better. If Max knew about FMax he could have tried to talk with her and make her understand. And if even then she didn't understand and wasn't collaborative then it wasn't their fault.

Yeah, all Max really had to do was be nice/civil to her. He didn't owe her anything more than that. I mean, Tess had it rough-- being raised by a psycho alien killer. Can't say I'm surprised she turned out the way she did. But, she still didn't deserve anything more than common courtesy from the group.

She really should have gotten together with Kyle. He would have helped her open up to her "human side" and then everyone would have been happy.

**Crystaline** · 08-21-2009, 04:23 PM

With the way Tess came to Roswell, scheming and messing with everyone's head, she didn't deserve their respect or hospitality. She have them reason to distrust her. Max and Liz especially. They treated her better than I would have.

rainydreams · 08-21-2009, 04:35 PM

You're probably right. I am being too nice.

**Crystaline** · 08-21-2009, 04:39 PM

If I was writing Roswell, I'd have made Michael and Liz blast her to kingdom come like they wanted to.

rainydreams · 08-21-2009, 04:43 PM

Liz blasting her in 4aaab is one of my favorite scenes

But, darn Max for pulling her away before she could get a few more in....