[Ironhorse25]

Things That Make You Go Hmmmm....

Would the New York Mets even exist in the alternate universe?

As one of baseball's first expansion teams in this universe, the Mets were founded in 1962 to replace New York's departed NL teams, the Brooklyn Dodgers and the New York Giants. The team's colors combine the Dodgers' blue and the Giants' orange.

In the alternate universe, the Brooklyn Dodgers never left New York, and with San Francisco possibly underwater from "The Big One", that would kinda put the kibosh on the Giants moving there.

In this universe, after the baseball team moved to San Francisco after the 1957 season, the New York Football Giants shortened their name to simply the New York Giants.

In the alternate universe, if the New York Giants had stayed, the football team would still be known today as the New York Football Giants.

Or maybe the Giants moved to another city 'over there'.

Then, perhaps the New York Mets could have been founded to just replace the New York Giants. Wearing only the Giants' orange.

And the football team could have still shortened their name to simply the New York Giants.

[FoxPhile]

Interesting observations. So who won the '69 World Series?

[Ironhorse25]

Originally Posted by FoxPhile (View Post) Interesting observations. So who won the '69 World Series?

For the sake of synchronization, let's just say the "Miracle Mets" did also 'over there'.

However, the New York Mets were founded to just replace the New York Giants baseball team in the alternate universe, who went on to become the San Francisco Giants as well.

Because even if the 'Big One' had occurred, in all probable likelihood it would have happened in 1906, giving plenty of time for San Francisco to have been rebuilt along the 'new' coastline.

But of course, this is all theoretical.

-

Sydney, Australia in the alternate universe. Cool!

[FoxPhile]

Nice to see the opera house is in the Alternate Universe as well.

[Ironhorse25]

In the alternate universe, there would be no Russia-Ukraine War.

Since the Soviet Union was never dissolved 'over there', Ukraine would have never gained independence to begin with.

[FoxPhile]

Interesting point. Although even if the Soviet Union was not fully dissolved over there, it's still possible that Ukraine could have gained independence. In fact, they could be having their own War of Independence against the Soviet Union.

[Ironhorse25]

Originally Posted by FoxPhile (View Post) Interesting point. Although even if the Soviet Union was not fully dissolved over there, it's still possible that Ukraine could have gained independence. In fact, they could be having their own War of Independence against the Soviet Union.

That is what I was thinking. A Soviet-Ukraine War thirty years earlier or today.

In this universe, the Soviet Union formally ceased to exist on December 26, 1991 when the presidents of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia (the founding members of the USSR) met in Belovezh Pushcha to formally dissolve the Union in accordance with the Soviet Constitution. With this, Ukraine's independence was formalized and legally recognized by the international community.

Since this did not happen in the alternate universe, Ukraine instead could have chosen to secede from the Soviet Union, prompting a 'Civil War'.

No nuclear war was fought, because if the alternate universe has a similar history to ours, Ukraine still would have held about one third of the Soviet nuclear arsenal, the third largest in the world at the time, as well as significant means of its design and production. 130 UR-100N intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM) with six warheads each, 46 RT-23 Molodets ICBMs with ten warheads apiece, as well as 33 heavy bombers, totaling approximately 1,700 warheads would have remained on Ukrainian territory.

In this universe, Ukraine agreed to destroy the weapons, and to join the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons in 1994.

What if Ukraine had never gotten rid of those nuclear weapons 'over here' or 'over there'?

[FoxPhile]

It would put an interesting twist on our current situation if Ukraine still had its nukes. But I'm not sure it would have prevented the war. Putin would still be convinced that his Russian forces are superior and would crush little Ukraine very quickly. He would still be bent on restoring the old Soviet Union to its former size. I don't think a few nukes more or less would make much difference to him.

[Ropetuned]

I have a feeling it would not

[Ironhorse25]

Originally Posted by FoxPhile (View Post) It would put an interesting twist on our current situation if Ukraine still had its nukes. But I'm not sure it would have prevented the war. Putin would still be convinced that his Russian forces are superior and would crush little Ukraine very quickly. He would still be bent on restoring the old Soviet Union to its former size. I don't think a few nukes more or less would make much difference to him.

I think it would have. The fear being that Ukraine would use theirs first. Ukraine would be a different country if they were still nuclear armed.

[FoxPhile]

You assume that Putin is afraid of anything. I think he's so convinced of his own superiority that he would not be afraid even if Ukraine had nukes.

[Ironhorse25]

Originally Posted by FoxPhile (View Post) You assume that Putin is afraid of anything. I think he's so convinced of his own superiority that he would not be afraid even if Ukraine had nukes.

But his military generals might have been. In all high probability, Russia would not have invaded Ukraine if the Ukrainians had retained their nuclear weapons.

In the alternate universe, if Ukraine is fighting a 'War of Independence' from the still intact Soviet Union simultaneously, Ukraine would still have their nukes. Is Volodymyr Zelenskyy leading the revolt?

Would Vladimir Putin be Soviet leader 'over there'?

[FoxPhile]

Anything is possible in the alternate universe, although I think to a great extent, Putin took advantage of the chaos that ensued when the Soviet Union broke up. A lot would depend on exactly where the history split off. Before the Soviet Union was officially dissolved, they went through a period of moderation under leaders like Gorbachev. If Gorbachev and people like him stayed in power, it's possible that the Soviet Union "over there" might be more of a socialist democracy than a communist state.

[Ironhorse25]

Originally Posted by FoxPhile (View Post) it's possible that the Soviet Union "over there" might be more of a socialist democracy than a communist state.

I agree, just by the ad they showed in S4-EP17 "Everything In Its Right Place". Looks like a travel ad.

[FoxPhile]

Even in the real world, the Soviet Union was opening up to tourism in the latter days. So it's not surprising that the alternate universe Soviet Union might encourage it.