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Old 07-18-2018, 02:52 PM
  #76
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Cabinet positions and Ambassador posts are both officially considered to be politically neutral. Presidents can and do call on members of other parties to fill those posts. In general, the majority of such posts are filled by party affiliates, but most Presidents have at least a few representatives of the opposing party in these positions. Since such appointments have to be approved by the Senate, when the Senate is controlled by the other party, Presidents will often choose someone from the other party in order to avoid having their nomination rejected. They can also leverage such appointments to gain points for being bipartisan.
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Old 07-20-2018, 12:51 PM
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I wonder if they have Coca Cola over in the AU?
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Old 07-20-2018, 04:37 PM
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If they do, there's probably something different about it. Like maybe it still has cocaine as an ingredient.
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Old 07-20-2018, 05:25 PM
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Definitely it'd explain the behavior of some of the people over there
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Old 07-20-2018, 07:54 PM
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Quirks - Oddities of the Alternate Universe

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxPhile (View Post)
If they do, there's probably something different about it. Like maybe it still has cocaine as an ingredient.
I absolutely agree. It would fit the AU so well!

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Old 07-20-2018, 08:24 PM
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Quirks - Oddities of the Alternate Universe

However, I believe narcotics are also illegal in the alternate universe. Remember the Pelham Flop House from "Everything In Its Right Place"?

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Old 07-22-2018, 03:43 PM
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Narcotics in general may be illegal, but it's possible the laws are slightly different for specific drugs.
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Old 07-22-2018, 04:52 PM
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Quirks - Oddities of the Alternate Universe

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Narcotics in general may be illegal, but it's possible the laws are slightly different for specific drugs.
That is very true. We don't know which drugs are legal and which one are not 'over there'. We can only surmise from the clues the "Fringe" writers gave us. The assumption being that cocaine is also illegal 'over there'. We do know that some drugs are definately illegal 'over there' for there to be flop houses like Pelham for drug addicts to have to hide out in to use them.

Cocaine could be legal 'over there'. The writers never directly specified which drugs were legal and which ones weren't.

Coca-Cola with cocaine could be dispensed over the counter like Tylenol 3 and 4 with codeine are 'over here'.

Or sold like alcoholic beverages are 'over here'.

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Old 07-24-2018, 12:18 PM
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I just wonder how strict the FDA would be about certain substance especially if they had an opiate epidemic
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Old 07-24-2018, 07:20 PM
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Quirks - Oddities of the Alternate Universe

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I just wonder how strict the FDA would be about certain substance especially if they had an opiate epidemic
Well, if the way Fringe Division handled crime 'over there' is any indication, I'd say pretty strict.

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Old 07-27-2018, 07:29 AM
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Quirks - Oddities of the Alternate Universe

"Mission: Impossible - Fallout" starring Tom Cruise is being released in theaters today 'over here'.

Perhaps "Mission: Impossible" is a television series remake starring Tom Cruise 'over there'?

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Old 08-12-2018, 05:40 PM
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A Succession of Events

If you really pay close attention to the clues "Fringe" and its online companions gave us, you could put together quite an insightful theoretical chronological overview of events that took place in the alternate universe going as far back as 1752.

You'll have to fill in the rest of the blanks yourself!

1752 - The Liberty Bell is commissioned.
Clue: The Liberty Bell (with crack) is on back of Nixon silver dollar.
Fringe Episode 221: "Over There: Part 1" - Fringe221OverTherePart1-079 - Fringe Files

1775 - The American Revolution begins.
Fringe Episode 222: "Over There: Part 2" - Fringe222 019 - Fringe Files

1776 - The Declaration of Independence is signed.
Fringe Episode 222: "Over There: Part 2" - Fringe222 019 - Fringe Files

1800 - Capitol Building is completed and subsequently expanded, particularly with the addition of the massive gold dome in the 1860s, and expanded chambers for the bicameral legislature, the House of Representatives in the south wing and the Senate in the north wing.
Fringe Episode 301: "Olivia" - Fringe301-571 - Fringe Files

War of 1812
Clue: William Bell's New York Post Newspaper article refers to war. (Great Britain would have to exist in the alternate universe for there to have been a Revolutionary War and War of 1812).
FringeS2Newspaper03.jpg (image)

President James Madison March 4, 1809 – March 4, 1817
Clue: William Bell's New York Post Newspaper article refers to Madison.
FringeS2Newspaper03.jpg (image)

1820 - Andrew Jackson is never elected president. (No word on who was).

The Fillmore $100 Bill
Fringe Episode 409: "Enemy Of My Enemy" - Fringe409EnemyOfMyEnemy0004829 - Fringe Files
1850s - Millard Fillmore may have been assassinated - in Abraham Lincoln's place. (Perhaps Benjamin Franklin did not persue a career in politics and is only known for discovering electricity by tying a key to a kite and standing in a thunderstorm).

1857 - Central Park in New York City established in 1857 on 778 acres of land acquired by the city. The Central Park Aviary is one of the most visited botanical gardens in the world.
Fringe Episode 308: "Entrada" - Fringe308Entrada462 - Fringe Files

1883 - Brooklyn Dodgers founded in 1883 as the Brooklyn Atlantics.

1887 - Sherlock Holmes never created by British author Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. ("The Consultant").

October 28, 1886 - The Statue of Liberty dedicated in a monument commemorating the centennial of the signing of the United States Declaration of Independence. Given to the United States by the people of France to represent the friendship between the two countries established during the American Revolution. (The statue retains its original bronze copper exterior to this day).
Fringe Episode 222: "Over There: Part 2" - Fringe222 019 - Fringe Files

1892 - Sears opens.
http://www.cinemaspy.com/img/user/nimoy-finale_300.jpg (Outtake - "Over There, Part 2")

December 18, 1892 - "The Nutcracker" - premiered at the Mariinsky Theatre in Saint Petersburg, Russia (Soviet Union).
Fringe Episode 318: "Bloodline" - Fringe318Bloodline0009203 - Fringe Files

June 16, 1903 - Ford Motor Company founded by Henry Ford and headquartered in Dearborn, Michigan, a suburb of Detroit. (No word about GM or Chrysler).
Clue: Walternate drives a Ford Taurus in the Fringe Deleted Scene: Over There, Part 2 commercial.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K_vzgN9zlU
A Ford Explorer with license plates from the Empire State.
Fringe Episode 318: "Bloodline" - Fringe318Bloodline0002366 - Fringe Files
Fringe Episode 222: "Over There: Part 2" - Fringe222 001 - Fringe Files

1908 - The Grand Hotel, by Antoni Gaudi, opens in New York City. ("Over There, Part 1")
Fringe Episode 222: "Over There: Part 2" - Fringe222 003 - Fringe Files

April 9, 1913 - Ebbets Field opens in Brooklyn, New York.
Current home of the Brooklyn Dodgers.
Clue: RADIO SPORTSCAST: It's a beautiful night here at Ebbets Field, bottom of the fifth. The Dodgers are leading the Expos two to nothing. And Charles is yet to give up a hit. ("6:02PM EST")

KGC was founded by Colonel Harland Sanders, an entrepreneur who began selling fried chicken from his roadside restaurant in Corbin, Kentucky during the Great Depression. Sanders identified the potential of the restaurant franchising concept, and the first "Kentucky Grilled Chicken" franchise opened in Utah in 1952.
Fringe Episode 222: "Over There: Part 2" - Fringe222 205 - Fringe Files

May 1, 1931 - The Empire State Building in New York City opens with a 200-foot mooring mast to dock zeppelin airships that is still used today.
Fringe Episode 215: "Peter" - Fringe215 055 - Fringe Files
Fringe Episode 313: "Immortality" - Fringe313Immortality005 - Fringe Files
Fringe Episode 222: "Over There: Part 2" - Fringe222 001 - Fringe Files

March 1, 1932 - The Lindbergh kidnapping never happens. ("Over There, Part 2")

May 6, 1937 - The Hindenburg disaster never happens.
Clue: Passenger zeppelins are still in use 'over there'.

1940 - McDonald's founded as a restaurant operated by Richard and Maurice McDonald in San Bernardino, California. They rechristened their business as a hamburger stand. The first time a McDonald's franchise used the French Fries logo was in 1953 at a location in Phoenix, Arizona. In 1955, Ray Kroc, a businessman, joined the company as a franchise agent and proceeded to purchase the chain from the McDonald brothers. McDonald's had its original headquarters in Oak Brook, Illinois, but moved its global headquarters to Chicago in early 2018.
Fringe Episode 221: "Over There: Part 1" - Fringe221OverTherePart1-048 - Fringe Files

October 3, 1941 - "The Maltese Falcon" is released. Cary Grant is known for saying "the stuff dreams made of" instead of Humphrey Bogart. ("Amber 31422")

November 26, 1942 - "Casablanca" is released starring Ronald Reagan and ends happily with the two running away together. ("Entrada")

1940s - A 'World War II' is faught.

1943 - Walter's father Robert Bishoff (a German scientist who defected to the United States in 1943 and anglicised his name to Bishop) while undercover in Berlin creates, along with Nazi scientist Alfred Hoffman, a chemical agent that, once heated as a gas, could be used to target any specific trait using DNA from the target subject. The Nazis successfully test an anti-aging serum on Hoffman. Bishoff knew of the alternate universe and created the toxin 'over there'. Hoffman was a Nazi scientist from the alternate universe. Bishoff returned to this universe and Hoffman followed him 'over here' with the ingredients for the toxin and the anti-aging serum.
Clue: Bishoff created the toxin in 1943, long before DNA was even discovered, and Nazi scientists 'over here' were not scientifically advanced enough to create an anti-aging serum.
Hoffman targeted Jews and non-Jews alike. This gives credence to the idea that perhaps Adolf Hitler's Nazi Germany did not specifically single out all Jews in the alternate universe.
(Speculative) "The Bishop Revival"

1948 - Truman is elected president.
Clue: William Bell's New York Post Newspaper article refers to Truman.
FringeS2Newspaper03.jpg (image)

January 3, 1959 - Alaska not admitted to the Union.

August 21, 1959 - Hawaii not admitted to the Union.

1983 Nixon Silver Dollar. Counterpart to the JFK Half Dollar?
Fringe Episode 221: "Over There: Part 1" - Fringe221OverTherePart1-080 - Fringe Files

1960 - Richard Nixon defeats John Kennedy is presidential election.

August 28, 1963 - Martin Luther King Jr and Eldridge Cleaver, standing in front of the Lincoln Memorial, a national monument built to honor the 14th President of the United States, Abraham Lincoln, delivered their historic "We Have a Dream" speech in which they called for an end to racism at the March on Washington in Washington, D.C.
Clue: The Martin Luther King Jr/Eldridge Cleaver Memorial Park in New York City.
Fringe Episode 301: "Olivia" - Fringe301-427 - Fringe Files

Novermber 22, 1963 - Nixon is assassinated in Dallas, South Texas. (Coin could be commemoration of 20th anniversary of assassination).

Nixon's running mate Henry Cabot Lodge, Jr. assumes the presidentcy. (Could also explain the Nixon Parkway is New York City).

1964 - John Kennedy runs again and defeats Henry Cabot Lodge, Jr. in presidential election.

No Vietnam War
Clue: Executive producers Jeff Pinkner and J.H. Wyman 2010 interview: The Aruba War is the alt-verse’s version of the Vietnam War. “On the other side, Aruba was a seat of power at one point,” Pinkner says, adding that, as in Vietnam’s case, few would’ve guessed that a seemingly insignificant country on the geopolitical landscape would turn out to be one of the “most powerful, emotional conflicts in our society.” Adds Wyman, “Things that seem insignificant, viewed through a different perspective, could be incredibly important.”
https://nypost.com/2010/10/31/fringe-goes-over-there/

September 8, 1966 - "Star Trek" premieres.
William Bell's New York Post Newspaper
Clue: A "Star Trek" movie was No.1 at the box office in May 2009.
FringeS2Newspaper04.jpg (image)

July 20, 1967 - Apollo 11 lands on the moon. (Since Challenger 10 flew two years earlier, so could have the the first manned lunar landing, still fulfilling Kennedy's goal of sending an American safely to the Moon before the end of the decade, with him living to see it as president.

January 1968? - Violet Sedan Chair is founded. (Still active).
https://wellentheorie.files.wordpres...uns-vinyl1.jpg
(Since there was no Peter as a child to catch the firefly, the other child (Victoria Dimiro) did catch it and not go wandering off. Her father never had to go looking for her in his car, therefore never hitting and killing Roscoe's son Bobby Joyce in 1985.)
Clue: Walternate listens to new Violet Sedan Chair CD while driving a Ford Taurus and talking to Peter in the Fringe Deleted Scene: Over There, Part 2 commercial.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K_vzgN9zlU

April 4, 1968 - Martin Luther King, Jr. is not assassinated in Memphis, Tennessee.

June 5, 1968 - Since JFK is still president, RFK has no reason to run and is never assassinated in Los Angeles. Still Attorney General or perhaps Secretary of State by now.

1968 - JFK is re-elected president.

LBJ never becomes president.

January 12, 1969 - The debut studio album by Led Zeppelin has a different cover.

1969 - Montreal Expos founded. Since 1977, they have played at "The Big Owe", Olympic Stadium in Montreal, Quebec, Canada. Indication that Canada also exists in the alternate universe.
Clue: RADIO SPORTSCAST: It's a beautiful night here at Ebbets Field, bottom of the fifth. The Dodgers are leading the Expos two to nothing. And Charles is yet to give up a hit. ("6:02PM EST")

April 1970 - "Red Lantern/Red Arrow" #76: comic issue is published.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YPCf8JFgUdI/S_gtDxjXL0I/AAAAAAAANCA/Ied_1nB2khs/s1600/06dRed%2520Lantern[1].JPG

May 4, 1970 - With no war to protest, no Kent State shootings.

July 1, 1971 - U.S. Mail Service becomes an independent agency.
Fringe Episode 303: "The Plateau" - Fringe303-0030 - Fringe Files

February 21, 1972 - Kennedy becomes the first U.S. president to visit China.

March 29, 1972 - The Transamerica Pyramid opens in New York City.
Fringe Episode 222: "Over There: Part 2" - Fringe222 269 - Fringe Files

The Martin Luther King, Jr. (Juinor) $20 Bill
https://images2.laweekly.com/imager/...igning_042.jpg

According to the clues "Fringe" gave us, if MLK had ever been elected the first black president of the United States, it would have been in November 1972. Probably a two-term president as JFK was.

No Watergate.

No Ford administration.

April 4, 1973 - The World Trade Center is dedicated and officially opens in New York City with a ribbon cutting ceremony. The World Trade Center is a large complex of seven buildings including the Marriott World Trade Center in Lower Manhatan in New York City. The landmark Twin Towers celebrated their 45th anniversary in 2018.
http://s4.storage.akamai.coub.com/ge...6244_00013.jpg

August 14, 1975 - The "Rocky Horror Picture Show" premieres.
Clue: When alternate Olivia and Frank are awakened by a videophone, the ringtone plays the song "Science Fiction/Double Feature" from The Rocky Horror Picture Show. ("Over There: Part 2")

February 8, 1976 - "Taxi Driver", directed by Francis Ford Coppola, premieres in theaters. ("Bloodline")

1976 - U2 not formed in Dublin, Ireland. Bono (lead vocals and rhythm guitar), not known. ("The Box")

1976 - MLK re-elected president.

No Carter administration.

May 25, 1977 - "Star Wars" premieres in theaters. (Perhaps the entire film series that followed as well).
Clue: Henry Higgins uses the phrase "Jedi mind trick". ("Olivia")

1978–present - Cabbage Patch Dolls
Fringe Episode 221: "Over There: Part 1" - Fringe221OverTherePart1-725 - Fringe Files

1980 - Ronald Reagan is elected president.
Clue: 1985 NEWSCAST: it's been six months since Peter Bishop disappeared, But authorities still have no ideas. The sympathy of the world goes out to Dr. Walter Bishop And his devoted wife, as the entire nation remains aghast at the kidnapping of their only son. Dr. Bishop, the architect of the famed Star Wars defense system that protects our nation, and his wife made an emot-- ("Subject 13").

December 8, 1980 - John Lennon is never assassinated in New York City.
William Bell's New York Post Newspaper
Clue: John Lennon announces Beatles reunion tour in 2009. George Harrison would have to still be alive for this one as well.

FringeS2Newspaper02.jpg (image)

January 28, 1984 - NASA successfully launches the first teacher into space, Christa McAuliffe, on the tenth mission of the Space Shuttle Challenger.
(Exploded 73 seconds into flight killing all on board, two years later, on January 28, 1986 'over here').

June 7, 1984 - "Ghostbusters" premieres in theaters.
Clue: The Real Ghostbusters Ghost Zapper Ecto-500 exists in the alternate universe.
Fringe Episode 315: "Subject 13" - Fringe315Subject13-02813 - Fringe Files

However, the animated series ran from 1986 to 1991 in this universe and was not on the air in 1985, as it was in the alternate universe.

There also were two ongoing "Real Ghostbusters" comics, one published monthly by Now Comics in USA and the other published weekly (originally biweekly) by Marvel Comics in the United Kingdom, and a popular toy line manufactured by Kenner.

No indication if the comic books exist or if the 1989 sequel, "Ghostbusters II", two animated television series, "The Real Ghostbusters" and Extreme Ghostbusters, several video games, and the 2016 reboot film, "Ghostbusters: Answer the Call" were ever made in the AU.


June 28, 1984 - Challenger 11 is launched. ("Peter").
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...LWDP3rc6JrQbat

1984 - Reagan is re-elected president.

1985 - Cell phones are already in use. ("Peter")

July 3, 1985 - "Back to the Future" starring Eric Stoltz is released.
Fringe Episode 215: "Peter" - Fringe215 329 - Fringe Files
(No word on whether "Back to the Future II" or "Back to the Future III" were ever made.

December 13, 1985 - "Clue" premieres in theaters 'over here'.
Already in theaters 'over there' by the summer of 1985.
Fringe Episode 215: "Peter" - Fringe215 309 - Fringe Files

1985 - Peter Bishop 'kidnapped'.
Fringe Episode 305: "Amber 31422" - Fringe305-152 - Fringe Files
Fringe Episode 305: "Amber 31422" - Fringe305-154 - Fringe Files

1985 - President Reagan Promises Additional Tax Relief
Fringe Episode 305: "Amber 31422" - Fringe305-153 - Fringe Files

1985 - The Blight begins.
(Rainbows become extinct).

October 1985 - "The Crisis on Infinite Earths": the issue where Superman died, is published.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YPCf8JFgUdI/S_gs5hcAVhI/AAAAAAAANBw/s5d0TSOunYs/s1600/06eSuperman%2520Crisis[1].JPG

1986 - Walter and William Bell pull a car with a CD player over from 'the other side'.
Fringe Episode 214: "Jacksonville" - Fringe214-283 - Fringe Files
(Back at the lab Walter Bishop shows Olivia and Peter an article in a newspaper that was from 1986, with a picture of a car seeming fused around one of the statues at Harvard. Walter further explains that it was an experiment that William Bell and he conducted, in order to move objects from one universe to another. They sent a car from this universe over to the alternate universe, and so one from there, came back here. When Peter asked Walter if he was sure that it was a car from the alternate universe and not just a college prank, Walter replied that in-car CD players did not exist as an option in our universe in 1986 and this car had one. Well, not to doubt that this car was from the alternate universe, however Walter's memory must be a little bit fuzzy (or the "Fringe" writing staff made a slight booboo) because in our universe in 1984, Pioneer and Sony introduced the first in-dash CD players. Sony introduced the first in-car CD changer, which was capable of storing and playing 10 discs, in our universe in 1986. In our universe in 1984 – Sony and Pioneer sell the first in-dash CD players.
In 1984, Pioneer changed the game by debuting the world’s first car CD player, the CDX-1.

https://www.complex.com/music/2015/0...rise-of-the-cd

1986 - "Superman: The Man of Steel Returns", a four-issue comic book miniseries starring Superman, is published.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YPCf8JFgUdI/S_gtODZ6nWI/AAAAAAAANCI/E1bCz4Ugdxg/s1600/06c%2520Man%2520of%2520Steel[1].JPG

May 1987 - "Justice League #1:" is published. (Guy Gardner replaced with Jonah Hex.)
https://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-cont...l1a.jpg?x70969

1988 - George H.W. Bush is elected president.
William Bell's New York Post Newspaper
Clue: George, Jr. eventually becomes president.
William Bell's New York Post Newspaper article states Laura Bush as the former occupant before Michelle Obama.

FringeS2Newspaper03.jpg (image)

January 1989 - Single "You Got It" from Roy Orbison is released.
Clue : Cover version from Rooney is playing in a bar. ("Entrada"). No indication whether or not Roy Orbison is still alive in the alternate universe.

1989 - Bush signs the Earth Protection Act.

October 17, 1989 - The Harvard Yard Incident. Harvard Yard campus at Harvard University in Boston is encased in quarantine amber with people inside.

December 2, 1990 - The East River Vortex in New York City kills 165. (No details ever given as to who died).
Fringe Episode 308: "Entrada" - Fringe308Entrada366 - Fringe Files

1991 - Bush signs the Peter Bishop Act.

December 26, 1991 - The Soviet Union is not dissolved.
Fringe Episode 417: "Everything In Its Right Place" - Fringe417EverythingInItsRightPlace0001134 - Fringe Files

January 1992 -"The Death of Batman": one of the biggest events in DC history.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YPCf8JFgUd...man%5B1%5D.JPG

1992 - Bill Clinton elected president.
Clue: Chelsea Clinton running for president in 2036. She would have most likely been running to follow in her dad's footsteps. ("Liberty")
Fringe Episode 512: "Liberty" - Fringe512Liberty0004328 - Fringe Files
Fringe Episode 512: "Liberty" - Fringe512Liberty0004327 - Fringe Files

September 10, 1993 - "The X-Files" premieres.
Clue: The shape-shifter from the alternate universe that kills Lloyd Parr and duplicates his body 'appears' to recognize the series playing on TV. ("A New Day In The Old Town")

1995 - Walternate writes and publishes "ZFT-The Natural Decay Of Our World".

1996 - Clinton re-elected president.

August 31, 1997 - Princess Diana does not die in a car crash.
Clue: 2011 "Fringe" promo for the show's move to Friday nights.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7GjEmfUtDss
Princess Diana is still alive in the alternate universe and is now the Queen of England.
iPad device: Britain's Queen Diana is arriving tomorrow in the United States for a four day official visit. Her majesty is expected to land in New York, stop over North Texas, before heading to California.
As always, for security purposes, there are reporting restrictions about her itinerary. The 50 year old monarch will attend a variety of functions, meet several politicians and visit schools, hospitals and community centers in an attempt to raise awareness for the charities she is invovled with, as well as …

Prince Charles and Lady Di never divorced and are now King Charles and Queen Diana of Great Britain in the alternate universe. No indication of what happened to Queen Elizabeth II 'over there'.

Sometime between 1998 and 2000 - The FBI is replaced by Fringe Division. ("The Abducted")

1999 - 10, 000 are encased in quarantine amber at Madison Square Garden in New York City. (No indication of what event was taking place at the time).

November 30, 1999 - Shexxon Corporation formed. (Merger of Shell and Exxon)
Fringe Episode 301: "Olivia" - Fringe301-312 - Fringe Files

2000 - "Chinese Democracy" from Guns N' Roses released. (Released eight years earlier due to Slash never having left the band in the first place).
Clue: William Bell's New York Post Newspaper

FringeS2Newspaper04.jpg (image)

September 22, 2000 - "The West Wing" premieres.
Premiered on September 22, 1999 'over here'. Would have had to premiere a year later to have had their eleventh season opener in 2010.
Fringe Episode 221: "Over There: Part 1" - Fringe221OverTherePart1-646 - Fringe Files

2000 - George W. Bush is elected president. (Doubtful a recount election would have been needed 'over there').

February 1, 2001 - Columbia 28 lands safely. (If Challenger never blew up, most likely neither did Columbia. The Columbia mission could have taken place two years earlier, as Challenger did. Could have been the last American space shuttle mission leading up to the Glatterflug daily passenger flights to the moon). Speculative
Fringe Episode 301: "Olivia" - Fringe301-188 - Fringe Files

2001 - Sheep become extinct due to the infestation of skelter beetles. (No details ever given on how this affected the world economy). ("Immortality")

The 9/11 Attacks
September 11, 2001
("Jacksonville")

One would assume that President George W. Bush was assassinated in the 9/11 attack on the White House.

However, William Bell's New York Post Newspaper article states Laura Bush as the former occupant before Michelle Obama.
FringeS2Newspaper03.jpg (image)

I believe American Airlines Flight 11, United Airlines Flight 175, and Shanksville, Pennsylvania were also sparred along with the World Trade Center.

I believe that only American Airlines Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon and United Airlines Flight 93 crashed into the White House on September 11, 2001.

Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon at the first-floor level fully penetrating into the building's five rings unleashing a fireball that rose 200 feet above the building and igniting a flash fire that spread quickly throughout the building.

With no WTC attacks and most likely departing on time, Flight 93 did not realize what was happening until it was too late.

The 9/11 attack on the Pentagon was much worse 'over there' than here.

I believe this because of something Walternate said to Peter in ("Over There Part 2"):
Clue: SECRETARY BISHOP: That's fair enough. But there have been break-throughs on the the other side in science and engineering that -- that we haven't achieved yet. And these are things that you understand. The schematic I left with your mother...?

I believe Walternate was referring to the 9/11 attacks on the Pentagon and the White House.

I did some research on where many were at the time of the 9/11 attacks in New York City 'over here'. First Lady Laura Bush was at the Capitol at the time of the attacks preparing to brief the Senate Education Committee on the findings of the early childhood development conference that she’d held in July 2001 and the Bushs' sororal twin daughters, Barbara Pierce Welch Bush and Jenna Bush-Hager, who were students at Yale and the University of South Texas at Austin, were both away at school. President George W. Bush was in Sarasota, Florida at Emma E. Booker Elementary School conducting a reading seminar to 2nd graders to promote his education bill. Vice-President Richard Cheany, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, and National Security Advisor Colin Powell were all at the White House. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfield was at the Pentagon.

This same scenario could have played out in the alternate universe, only with Vice-President Richard Cheany, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, and National Security Advisor Colin Powell dying in the 9/11 attack on the White House.

Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfield died in the attack on the Pentagon and Walternate replaced him as Secretary of Defense when the agency moved to Liberty Island in New York City after the Pentagon was completely destroyed in the 9/11 attacks.

"Fringe" never disclosed how many died in the alternate 9/11 attacks, what happened to Osama bin Laden, or what the end result of the Afghanistan War was 'over there'.

November 25, 2002 - The Department of Homeland Security is established.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...rs/FringeBSide

The Aruba War appears to be a recent one (early 2000s to present?) by the looks of a young looking Aruba War Vet. ("The Plateau"). 2010
Could have been fought in place of the The Iraq War as well.
Fringe Episode 303: "The Plateau" - Fringe303-0011 - Fringe Files

November 13, 2004 - Garcia Continues His Streak - Manhatan Courier
Fringe Episode 417: "Everything In Its Right Place" - Fringe417EverythingInItsRightPlace0002866 - Fringe Files

2004 - Bush, Jr. is re-elected president.

August 29, 2005 - Katrina never hits New Orleans.
Clue: New Orleans Makes Bid for 2016 Summer Games in 2009. Fastest growing city in the South to "strut its stuff" says Mayor Lagasse.
City wouldn't be able to"strut its stuff" to bid for the 2016 Summer Games in 2009 if ravaged by a hurricane just four years earlier. Also Ray Nagin is not mayor at the time, instead it is New Orleans food entrepenior Emil Lagasse.

FringeS2Newspaper02.jpg (image)

2008 - Barack Obama is elected president. The second person with black heritage to do so.
JFK is UN Ambassador.
Fringe Episode 222: "Over There: Part 2" - Fringe222 024 - Fringe Files

April 7, 2009 - Peter shows the feral boy an action figure of the G.I. Joe character Roadblock, and comments that he always remembers the character as having a scar on the other side of his face. This may be an early indication of differences that Peter remembers from his childhood in the parallel universe. ("Inner Child")

May 12, 2009 - Wall Street is closed down for at least 21 days. (Could have been repercussions stemming from the 2008 Financial Crisis under George W. Bush administration).
http://www.syfy.com/sites/blastr/fil...x210-22004.jpg

May 12, 2009 - Boston Celtics sweep a NBA playoff series with Len Bias as MVP. (Bias does not die from cocaine overdose in 1986).
FringeS2Newspaper06.jpg (image)

2009 - Obamas move into rebuilt new White House with glass roof.
http://fringepedia.net/w/images/d/d9/Glassroof.jpg

September 22, 2009 - "Lost" premieres.
Premiered over here on September 22, 2004.
Would have had to premiere five years later for a deleted scene from Season 1,“Exodus, Part 2”, to air in 2010. In it we see a quick shot of Australian Claire Littleton and the Oceanic 815 pilot (Greg Grunberg) chatting in the airport before the flight takes off, indicating that Australia also exists in the alternate universe. “Exodus, Part 2” aired 'over here' on May 25, 2005 while "The Man from the Other Side" aired on April 22, 2010.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YPCf8JFgUd...18_0003265.JPG
http://iv1.lisimg.com/image/1930015/400full-poster.jpg

Top Movies of 2010 'over there':
"Superman vs. Batman 2"
"Indiana Jones and the Hex of the Hydra"
"Star Wars: Legion of the Droid"
"Splash 7: Love Sinks"
"Smokey and the Bandit: The Final Lap"
"Mask vs. Joker"
https://io9.gizmodo.com/5509742/now-...eater-near-you

February 4, 2010 - A toy double-decker car.
Fringe Episode 214: "Jacksonville" - Fringe214-258 - Fringe Files

September 23, 2010 - The White House announced that President Obama has chosen former President John F. Kennedy to lead the government's new agency aimed at slowing ecological breakdown. President Kennedy plans to step down from his role as U.N. Ambassador... (S3-EP1 "Olivia")

October 7, 2010 - Smallpox outbreak in North Texas. CDC is investigating.
Fringe Episode 303: "The Plateau" - Fringe303-0291 - Fringe Files

November 18, 2010 - Oldtime radio serials like "The Shadow" are still aired in the alternate universe.
Clue: RADIO NARRATOR: ...devotes his life to righting wrongs, protecting the innocent, and punishing the guilty. Cranston is known to the underworld as The Shadow. Never seen, only heard, his true identity is known only to his constant friend and aide, Margo Lane. Today's story... ("The Abducted")

November 18, 2010 - "Burlap Bear Goes to the Woods", a childrens' book written and illustrated by Thomas Tomas Christensen, is popular.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mGbP5JqZS7...Ng/s400/4b.jpg

2010 - Red Vines hit the market.
(1952 'over here'). ("The Abducted")

2010 - Springsteen Station in Newark, New Jersey - Date of dedication unknown. (Penn Station)
Fringe Episode 308: "Entrada" - Fringe308Entrada588 - Fringe Files
(Could have been dedicated following the assassination of Bruce Springsteen - in place of John Lennon).

March 25, 2011 - "Opus the Peahen" comic strip- is a Penguin and ended in 2008 'over here'.
Fringe Episode 318: "Bloodline" - Fringe318Bloodline0003753 - Fringe Files

March 25, 2011 - "The West Wing" renewed for a twelfth season.
Fringe Episode 318: "Bloodline" - Fringe318Bloodline0010006 - Fringe Files

May 6, 2011 - The altered timeline begins.
(Batman is replaced with Mantis).
Clue: "Everything In Its Right Place" excerpt:

Our Lincoln Lee: "Maybe Batman's moved to the Bronx."

Alternate Olivia: "What's a Batman?"

Our Lincoln Lee: "The Caped Crusader, the Dark Knight. Billionaire playboy puts on a cape to clean up the streets of Gotham."

Alternate Lincoln Lee: "Oh, you mean Mantis."

Our Lincoln Lee: "Seriously? Your superhero is an insect?"

Alternate Olivia: Oh, what, 'cause nothing says badasslike a flying rat.


September 30, 2011 - Gas is only 99 cents a gallon in the altered timeline.
Fringe Episode 402: "One Night In October" - Fringe402OneNightInOctober0002667 - Fringe Files

January 13, 2012 - A glimpse into the alternate New York City public transportation system:
Hoboken Terminal South Entrance
Fringe Episode 303: "The Plateau" - Fringe303-0272 - Fringe Files

Battery Park Bus Terminal
Fringe Episode 408: "Back To Where You've Never Been" - Fringe408BackToWhereYouveNeverBeen0001846 - Fringe Files

Manhatan City Coach
Fringe Episode 408: "Back To Where You've Never Been" - Fringe408BackToWhereYouveNeverBeen0002086 - Fringe Files

Washington Heights Express
Fringe Episode 408: "Back To Where You've Never Been" - Fringe408BackToWhereYouveNeverBeen0002357 - Fringe Files

A red double-decker car.
Fringe Episode 408: "Back To Where You've Never Been" - Fringe408BackToWhereYouveNeverBeen0001837 - Fringe Files

April 13, 2012 - A section of Manhatan
Fringe Episode 418: "The Consultant" - Fringe418TheConsultant0000923 - Fringe Files

2012 - The Blight ends.
(Rainbows can be seen once again).

2012 - The Department of Containment begins to deamber affected areas.

Clue: SECRETARY BISHOP (video file): This is a turning point in our history. In the last week alone, eleven previously uninhabitable zones have been reopened. Our cities are healing. Our world is being restored. But the process will take time. So, as we celebrate this recovery, let us never forget those we've lost. Thank you, everyone.
Fringe Episode 417: "Everything In Its Right Place" - Fringe417EverythingInItsRightPlace0001995 - Fringe Files

2012 - Madison Square Garden and the Harvard Yard campus at Harvard University in Boston and deambered and the 10, 000+ encased in quarantine amber released.
Fringe Episode 420: "Worlds Apart" - Fringe420WorldsApart0002453 - Fringe Files

2016 - Hillary Clinton defeats Donald Trump in the presidential election.
Clue: Chelsea Clinton running for president in 2036. ("Liberty") She would have more likely been running to follow in her mom's footsteps than her dad's.
Fringe Episode 512: "Liberty" - Fringe512Liberty0004328 - Fringe Files
Fringe Episode 512: "Liberty" - Fringe512Liberty0004327 - Fringe Files

Sometime between 2012 and 2036 - The Pentagon reopens. ("Liberty")
Fringe Episode 512: "Liberty" - Fringe512Liberty0004328 - Fringe Files

*It is to be assumed that Martin Luther King Jr lived a long productive life and died a peaceful death years later, as symbolized by the Martin Luther King /Eldridge Cleaver Memorial Park in New York City. The same would apply to Eldridge Cleaver. ("Olivia")
Fringe Episode 301: "Olivia" - Fringe301-427 - Fringe Files

*Most likely Jerry Garcia of the Grateful Dead is still alive 'over there'.
Fringe Episode 120: "There's More Than One Of Everything" - fringe120-1064 - Fringe Files

*The long-running show on Over There’s Broadway isn’t about singing “Cats.” Over There taxis feature ads for the hit musical “Dogs” (now in its 18th year as of 2010).
https://thenypost.files.wordpress.co...0&h=200&crop=1

*Agent Lincoln-Lee was originally introduced in "Over There, Part 1", when the Fringe division of our universe goes to 'the other side' to get Peter back. The showdown between the two Fringe divisions leaves Lee with third degree burns covering 90% of his body. Thanks to the advanced nanotechnology known in the alternate universe, Lee doesn’t stay away from duty for long, and after a three months medical treatment he is completely recovered.

*In "Over There, Part 2" Walter recovers in the hospital from hemorrhagic shock... the type of shock associated with severe gunshot wounds to the abdomen (from a shoot out). Different type drugs and accelerated healing techniques 'over there' saved him.

*Notice the Brooklyn Bridge among the familiar sights 'over there'.
Fringe Episode 221: "Over There: Part 1" - Fringe221OverTherePart1-164 - Fringe Files

*The existence of Chinatown in New York City is an indication that China also exists in the alternate universe.
Fringe Episode 318: "Bloodline" - Fringe318Bloodline0009419 - Fringe Files

*Alternate Olivia suffered from Viral Propagated Eclampsia before giving birth.
Accelerated gestation technology can grow a first trimester human fetus to full-term in less than a day.
Fringe Episode 318: "Bloodline" - Fringe318Bloodline0001383 - Fringe Files

*The Secret Service also exists in the alternate universe.
Clue: "Bloodline" excerpt:

SECRETARY BISHOP: I want security assigned at all times. Until we find whoever did this, Agent Dunham and her baby are still at risk.

LINCOLN LEE: I've arranged for Secret Service. There's an agent outside her room right now.


Coney Island also exists in the alternate universe.
Clue: "The Plateau" excerpt:
AGENT FRANCIS: You remember that time when we were at Coney Island? We were riding the Hellhole together, right? You got sick, and you threw up on the guy next to you.

OLIVIA: Yeah... except you threw up all over the person next to you - so you can stop trying to rewrite history. What -- what made you think of that?

AGENT FRANCIS: Witness is from Coney.


As well as "Get Smart".
Clue: "Immortality" excerpt:

FRANK STANTON: Can you, uh... keep a secret?

LINCOLN LEE: You kidding me? I have my own, like... Cone of Silence when it comes to secrets. What is it?


*Logan International Airport and the Transportation Security Administration do not exist in the alternate universe.
Clue: "Making Angels" excerpt:

AGENT FARNSWORTH: (looks up from recent research) What is Logan International?

WALTER: It's an airport. Why?

AGENT FARNSWORTH: All three victims traveled through there.

WALTER: Is that right? (to Astrid. disappointed) How did you miss that?

ASTRID: (defensive) I didn't! They all had different airlines. They had different destinations. Mister Williams was what, two weeks ago? Carrie Watson was last month.

AGENT FARNSWORTH: Yes, their travel vouchers indicate that. What is TSA?

ASTRID: Uh, Transportation Security Administration. They screen every passenger for safety.


The fact that Logan International Airport does not exist in the alternate universe is a further indication that flights American Airlines Flight 11 and United Airlines Flight 175 were never invovled at all in the alternate September 11, 2001 attacks in which planes hit the White House and the Pentagon instead of the Twin Towers and the Pentagon (which was completely destroyed in the alternate attacks).
The Transportation Security Administration does not exist in the alternate universe possibly because Fringe Division handles transportation safety 'over there'.
Edward Lawrence Logan most likely did not gain fame 'over there'.

Bees the size of grapefruits exist in the alternate universe.
Clue: 'Over there, Part 2" excerpt:

NURSE: How big were the bees? This big? Bigger than a grapefruit?


*John Lyly, English Renaissance poet, never said: "The rules of fair play do not apply in love or war", otherwise known as "All's fair in love and war." ("6955 kHz")

*Lingg Eye Group
Fringe Episode 307: "The Abducted" - Fringe307-075 - Fringe Files

*Badgers are domesticated and considered pets in the alternate universe.
Clue: The Consultant" excerpt:
WALTER: Domesticated badgers, really? As pets?


*No Memory Foam for Pillows.
Clue: "The Consultant" excerpt:

COLONEL BROYLES: It's been a long day. Maybe after a good night's sleep.

WALTER: I think you're right. Although the pillow I was given last night left me with a terrible crick. Apparently this universe hasn't discovered memory foam.


*Astoria Holy Witness Church
Fringe Episode 307: "The Abducted" - Fringe307-480 - Fringe Files

*Pelham Flop House
Fringe Episode 417: "Everything In Its Right Place" - Fringe417EverythingInItsRightPlace0006153 - Fringe Files

*Too bad homelessness (income-impairness) also exists in the alternate universe.
Clue: Everything In Its Right Place" excerpt :

Gentle Souls Soup Kitchen
HELEN: Afternoon. What's your name?

CANAAN: Canaan. My name is Canaan.

HELEN: Nice to meet you. I'm Helen. I haven't seen you around here before. Do you have a place to stay?

CANAAN: I - I did. I just.... It's gone now.

HELEN: I'm sorry to hear that.

CANAAN: Can I carry this for you?

HELEN: Sure. Thanks. Well, we'll have to find you a place to sleep tonight. It's too cold to be on the street. Father Luis has got the availability of all the shelters. I'll check in with him. You go ahead and dig in.

CANAAN: Thank you.

HELEN: Be right back.


*G Street Shelter and Soup Kitchen
http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4782816537085455&pid=1.7&w=160&h=106&c=7&rs=1 (http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.47828...h=106&c=7&rs=1)

*Fly Antarea Airships.
https://www.syfy.com/sites/blastr/fi...x241-55647.jpg

*Steak TV-dinners exist 'over there'.
Fringe Episode 402: "One Night In October" - Fringe402OneNightInOctober0003796 - Fringe Files

*Philippines exist in the alternate universe.
Fringe Episode 301: "Olivia" - Fringe301-376 - Fringe Files

*Fringe Division headquarters
Fringe Episode 409: "Enemy Of My Enemy" - Fringe409EnemyOfMyEnemy0003789 - Fringe Files

*A double decker car in 1985. ("Peter")
https://www.flickr.com/photos/clamtrafficjam/4667551209

*"Battleship Galactica" must have been a bigger hit 'over there' for there to have still been a Parker Brothers gameboard version of it in 1985. (And "Ghostbusters").
Fringe Episode 315: "Subject 13" - Fringe315Subject13-02813 - Fringe Files

*And Rubik's Cube.
Fringe Episode 315: "Subject 13" - Fringe315Subject13-02851 - Fringe Files

*And GI Joe and toy space shuttles as well as toy airplanes.
Fringe Episode 315: "Subject 13" - Fringe315Subject13-02974 - Fringe Files

*The arcade games Secret Quest, Missile Command, and Battlezone are visible next to the TV. (1985 would have been too early to have had the Atari 7800 in a toy store in this universe, likewise they had a boxed Secret Quest which didn't come out until 1989 'over here').
http://atariage.com/forums/uploads/m...9888765786.jpg

*What is a bedroom doorbell?
Fringe Episode 315: "Subject 13" - Fringe315Subject13-02919 - Fringe Files

*What is hitball?
Clue: "The Consultant" excerpt:
CHRIS BROYLES: Okay. So today at recess a bunch of the guys were playing hitball. And when they started picking the teams, I got picked first.

COLONEL BROYLES: That's great.


*There are nine planets in the solar system as seen in the poster hanging on the closet door. Aside from the familiar Clue, Operation, and Battleship games, there is Quarantine Zone: The Board Game. On the box you can see this phrase. CAN YOU ESCAPE BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE?
Fringe Episode 307: "The Abducted" - Fringe307-062 - Fringe Files
Fringe Episode 307: "The Abducted" - Fringe307-047 - Fringe Files

*Peanut M&Ms were new in 1985.
Clue: "Subject 13" excerpt:

MISS ASHLEY: Oh, I'm sorry. I was looking for Peter. He told me he's never had peanut m&ms before.


*Video cassette recorders existed in 1985 in the alternate universe. (Boy, I sure would have loved to have had one of those!)
Fringe Episode 315: "Subject 13" - Fringe315Subject13-03495 - Fringe Files

*So did closed circuit television.
Fringe Episode 315: "Subject 13" - Fringe315Subject13-03501 - Fringe Files

*San Francisco Bay showing up on the alternate map of the United States in Walternate's office is a clue that no natural or man-made disaster caused California to be geographically smaller in the alternate universe. It was always that way. Also indicates that San Francisco does still exist in the alternate universe however, further south, perhaps close enough to Los Angeles to be their twin city, such as Minneapolis/St. Paul, Dallas/Ft. Worth, and Detroit/Windsor are. The Transamerica Pyramid just happened to be built in New York City instead of San Francisco. Also, even though Ronald Reagan starred in "Casablanca" in the alternate universe, the film most likely would have still been set in San Francisco, adding more evidence to the existence of the city.
(No indication if the 1906 earthquake happened 'over there').
United States Of Fringe: Map from "Over There" ~ Fringe Television - Fan Site for the FOX TV Series Fringe

*The state of South Texas could be a subtle clue that Waco never happened on April 19, 1993.

*The state of Midland (Kansas, Oklahoma) could be a subtle clue that the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah federal building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995 never happened.
Fringe Episode 303: "The Plateau" - Fringe303-0905 - Fringe Files

*The state of Southern British Columbia (Washington) could be a subtle clue that Kurt Cobain of Nirvana never committed suicide on April 8, 1994 and that a "Northern British Columbia" could exist in Canada.

And so on and so forth...Fringe Episode 221: "Over There: Part 1" - Fringe221OverTherePart1-079 - Fringe Files

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Old 08-22-2018, 08:57 PM
  #88
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Some pretty amazing stuff, thanks!

I would love to see their version of G N R if Slash never left
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Old 08-25-2018, 05:22 AM
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Wow. Really in-depth list there. I always assumed that 9/11 didn't happen at all because of the twin towers still being in the NY skyline.
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Old 08-26-2018, 11:58 PM
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Yeah it's some pretty amazing stuff

Looking deeper into the thread it's sad seeing how many used to post on the board compared to now, seems like FF has lost a lot of traffic over the years
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