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Old 08-04-2018, 10:45 PM
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MacLaren's pub [ Off Topic ] #65: Because Mary and Alex can't seem to stop talking about the Buffyverse.

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are you feeling better Mary

Alex...preseason hall of fame game was kind of messy....
I'm better than I was two days ago. I just need my full appetite back.

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How do you feel today?
I'm better than I was two days ago. I just need my full appetite back.

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Yeah, David has been the most consistently successful TV actor of the last two decades with four hit shows back to back to back to back.


Hi, Mary! How are you feeling? Any better?

Well, like I told you, Mary, I think that Kate Lockley was who they initially wanted as Angel's love interest on the show. I don't think they had any illusions about Buffy and Angel living happily ever after. Cordy and Doyle was also a storyline they initially wanted to pursue, but again, events happened the way they happened. Glenn Quinn and Elizabeth Rohm left the show for various reasons, Wesley replaced Doyle, Fred and Gunn were introduced, Buffy died and the show moved to UPN, the writers decided to go in the direction of Angel/Cordelia, Buffy came back and got together with Spike, that stupid Conor storyline happened that made no sense, Charisma's pregnancy ended up changing Joss Whedon's plans for season 4, etc. Jasmine wasn't even supposed to exist. Cordy was supposed to be the villain of season 4 and Angel was going to battle her and bring her back to normal or something, but Charisma's pregnancy necessitated a total change in the storyline. So basically a lot of stuff happened that was beyond anyone's control. It's a shame because I really would've liked to have seen what those shows would've been like if things had gone differently. Oh, and the Conor/Cordelia thing would've been weird no matter what.

Oh, I forgot that you were a Spuffy shipper. Well, I've seen other Spuffy fans who hated on Angel. But again, I do think that they at least could've done something with Angel/Faith instead of having her go to Sunnydale and having Angel get involved with wolf-girl.
He is an amazing actor that's for sure.

Well you are forgetting his moment of true happiness if you think it would be acceptable for Kate and Cordy to be Angel's love interest. Did you forget why Angel left Buffy in Sunnydale? Kate would be a little better considering she doesn't work for Angel. I don't know why the writers kept on wanting to force a romance on Angel considering they had Giles be single for years. Angel is better off being friends with both Cordy and Kate. Cordy and Kate don't have that much of a stronghold against Angelus like Faith and Buffy would. Cordy would have to find a job elsewhere if to "fall in "love" with Angel". She would also have to pass her visions to somebody else.

Buffy didn't have a lovey dovey relationship with Spike in Season Six though. She kind of liked him while using him. She broke it off with him in As You Were. He then trying to get her jealous in Xander&Anya's wedding in Hell's Bells, which worked, but when he kept on begging and begging, but didn't have good results. He then attempted to rape her out of frustration, which made Buffy pissed saying "Ask me again why I will never love you." Spike then came home to his crypt feeling bad about the situation which led to him to being conflicted on either getting his chip removed or getting a soul. He then chose to get a soul. Going through the demon trails and all that, which impressed Buffy in the final season. She fell in love with Spike the next season while still caring about Angel.





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Old 08-04-2018, 10:52 PM
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Thanks for the new thread and I love the title

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I'm better than I was two days ago. I just need my full appetite back.
That's good then, hopefully you can get your appetite back tomorrow.
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Old 08-04-2018, 10:55 PM
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I had to edit it because it is true.
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Old 08-04-2018, 11:06 PM
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I had to edit it because it is true.
Very true
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Old 08-05-2018, 02:22 AM
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Told That Devil To Take You Back...





make me choose: Fangel or Cangel (requested by... : Born In the 90's






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Old 08-05-2018, 02:24 AM
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Took me an second to realise what that was
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Old 08-05-2018, 06:44 PM
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I'm not surprised Jimmy was so popular, considering how good of an job he did turning them into Super Bowl winners.

I hope he can too
Hi, Sam!

Oh, Jimmy is still popular now that he's a sportscaster, Sam.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Carson can come back in September.


Wow! Thanks for the new thread, Mary! And thanks for all the gifs! And I'm glad you're feeling better.

You know, you did just make a good point. The only person other than Buffy who was able to give Angel his "one moment of perfect happiness" along with losing his soul was Cordelia, so that's something. As for the Faith/Angel thing, while I do think it would've been great, it can never be more than speculation at this point because we'll never know what would've happened.

I do like all those gifs reaffirming that Angel/Buffy were the OTP. But again, if that were the case I really wish that the Spuffy people weren't so ready to throw Angel under the bus. Oh, and I'm not too pleased with Joss Whedon at the moment. He's used up a lot of points with me and he has few, if any, left. I liked Spike choosing to fight for his soul, and I really liked him and Angel teaming up in season 5. I guess all the shipping on both of these shows has me conflicted. I still think that Angel/Cordy was a natural progression from what happened in season 1 of Angel, when they were figuring out what worked and what didn't. I just wish they hadn't moved into that damn hotel and expanded the team into a second Scooby gang. I also think that The Girl In Question left the whole thing with Buffy/Angel and Buffy/Spike up in the air. And if you've read the Buffy comics, well... you know what happened there.
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Old 08-05-2018, 11:48 PM
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Wow! Thanks for the new thread, Mary! And thanks for all the gifs! And I'm glad you're feeling better.

You know, you did just make a good point. The only person other than Buffy who was able to give Angel his "one moment of perfect happiness" along with losing his soul was Cordelia, so that's something. As for the Faith/Angel thing, while I do think it would've been great, it can never be more than speculation at this point because we'll never know what would've happened.

I do like all those gifs reaffirming that Angel/Buffy were the OTP. But again, if that were the case I really wish that the Spuffy people weren't so ready to throw Angel under the bus. Oh, and I'm not too pleased with Joss Whedon at the moment. He's used up a lot of points with me and he has few, if any, left. I liked Spike choosing to fight for his soul, and I really liked him and Angel teaming up in season 5. I guess all the shipping on both of these shows has me conflicted. I still think that Angel/Cordy was a natural progression from what happened in season 1 of Angel, when they were figuring out what worked and what didn't. I just wish they hadn't moved into that damn hotel and expanded the team into a second Scooby gang. I also think that The Girl In Question left the whole thing with Buffy/Angel and Buffy/Spike up in the air. And if you've read the Buffy comics, well... you know what happened there.
I am, but I'm trying to not be constipated because the doctor told me to drink prune juice. On my first glass I did poop, but on the other glasses, I couldn't. I'm thinking about just taking a laxative pill.

But the difference is, is that Angel never yelled out Cordy's name while having sex with Buffy.

They were, and I don't know why the other Spuffy shippers would want to throw Angel under the bus either. It doesn't make sense. It is like the Cangel shippers dismissing Buffy just because "she didn't make him happy."

What has Joss Whedon done to make you mad at him?

I don't understand why destroy a good friendship and work relationship just to "make ratings or some crap." I guess Sheldon and Leonard should start going out because of that reason.

I don't read the comics because it is nothing compared to the shows.






I didn’t say I’d never slay another vampire. It’s... • Marshmallow the Vampire Slayer
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Old 08-06-2018, 05:38 PM
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Hi, Mary! I'm glad you're feeling better. The constipation can be a problem, though. I hope the pills work. Prune juice usually does work, but it depends on how recently you've eaten. Yogurt usually works for me.

Oh, and my store manager at Hellmart just got fired, so that's one less headache to worry about.

Well, Angel never yelled out Buffy's name. It was more like a whisper or an normal level voice. And I never really understood that scene, to be honest. The whole idea was to give Angel the illusion of one perfect moment of happiness, and for him that was his lovemaking with Cordy. Calling out "Buffy" like that seemed so tacked on and it was never really explained afterwards. I suspected that Angel called out Buffy's name because he suddenly realized what was happening to him since the last time he lost his soul and Angelus was released was when he had sex with Buffy.

I never really heard Cangel shippers hating on Buffy, to be honest. I think many Cangel shippers may have just been upset about the whole Spuffy thing, so perhaps they thought it better that Angel moved on as well. I don't remember a lot of people shipping Angel and Kate in season 1, and if there were they weren't that vocal. Also, I don't think that the writers were trying to destroy any friendships for ratings, I just think that during the course of Angel's first two seasons they went through a period of trial and error and just came to the whole Cangel thing out of necessity, as Cordy had essentially become the female lead of the show. If Elizabeth Rohm had stayed on the show, Kate probably would've become Angel's love interest.

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What has Joss Whedon done to make you mad at him?
Being a hypocrite, for one thing. He talks all feminist and stuff, but then you hear his ex-wife talking about his infidelities and indiscretions in the past. I also didn't like his handling of The Avengers or Justice League movies. I just think he's overrated. He's also somewhat elitist and condescending.
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Old 08-07-2018, 12:24 AM
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How are you, Mary?

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Hi, Sam!

Oh, Jimmy is still popular now that he's a sportscaster, Sam.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Carson can come back in September.
Hey Alex

That's true, I do forget that

I hope he can too
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Old 08-07-2018, 01:04 AM
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I am doing alright, Sam. You?

According to my biological mom, my sister broke her ankle. She had to have mom come pick her up to take her to the hospital. She still has to work, so my dad needs to take time out of his work just to take her to work. Apparently a broken ankle is more important than stolen property, stolen money, and emotional distress.

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Hi, Mary! I'm glad you're feeling better. The constipation can be a problem, though. I hope the pills work. Prune juice usually does work, but it depends on how recently you've eaten. Yogurt usually works for me.

Oh, and my store manager at Hellmart just got fired, so that's one less headache to worry about.

Well, Angel never yelled out Buffy's name. It was more like a whisper or an normal level voice. And I never really understood that scene, to be honest. The whole idea was to give Angel the illusion of one perfect moment of happiness, and for him that was his lovemaking with Cordy. Calling out "Buffy" like that seemed so tacked on and it was never really explained afterwards. I suspected that Angel called out Buffy's name because he suddenly realized what was happening to him since the last time he lost his soul and Angelus was released was when he had sex with Buffy.

I never really heard Cangel shippers hating on Buffy, to be honest. I think many Cangel shippers may have just been upset about the whole Spuffy thing, so perhaps they thought it better that Angel moved on as well. I don't remember a lot of people shipping Angel and Kate in season 1, and if there were they weren't that vocal. Also, I don't think that the writers were trying to destroy any friendships for ratings, I just think that during the course of Angel's first two seasons they went through a period of trial and error and just came to the whole Cangel thing out of necessity, as Cordy had essentially become the female lead of the show. If Elizabeth Rohm had stayed on the show, Kate probably would've become Angel's love interest.



Being a hypocrite, for one thing. He talks all feminist and stuff, but then you hear his ex-wife talking about his infidelities and indiscretions in the past. I also didn't like his handling of The Avengers or Justice League movies. I just think he's overrated. He's also somewhat elitist and condescending.
I actually got unconstipated today. SO that is great!!

Hopefully, you will get a better one, not a worse one.

It was obvious to me and my boyfriend that Angel said Buffy's name BEFORE he lost his soul.

Well the writers must've lost sight of the reason why Angel left Buffy in Sunnydale if they wanted to push Kangel and Cangel. I guess they want Angel to turn to Angelus to kill both Cordy and Kate. *insert sarcasm* That's really smart. *end sarcasm* *insert sarcasm* Let's see, let's have Giles be single for 3 and a half years, but not have Angel be single on his own show and have some girl be killed. *end sarcasm*

At least Spuffy have more luck in their relationship than Cangel. Angelus can kill Cordy in 3 seconds flat.

His behavior towards Charisma in Season 4 wasn't all that great. He didn't have much feminism when he decided to put Tara and Willow back together.






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Old 08-07-2018, 02:16 AM
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I'm doing good Mary

Wow, can't see I feel bad for your sister at all considering what she did to you and all.
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Old 08-07-2018, 06:16 PM
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Hi, Sam! NFL preseason begins this Thursday! Steelers and Eagles!

Hi, Mary! Your sister broke her ankle? Maybe it was karma. But it's not right that your parents are there for her and not for you.

I'm glad the pills worked for you. And we already have a temp store manager right now, so hopefully things work out.

Yes, I know that Angel said Buffy's name before he lost his soul. My point was that he experienced that one true moment of happiness with Cordy(or the illusion of Cordy), and right at that moment he suddenly realized what was going to happen because of it, that Angelus was going to emerge. That's why I figured he said Buffy's name, because the last time that happened to him was when he was with her.

Well, Cordy was going to receive a major power upgrade in season 4 after her experience in that higher plane of existence. That's what was going to make her turn evil and go all Dark Phoenix on everyone, and she and Angel were going to fight and he'd eventually turn her back to her good side. Joss loves that Dark Phoenix storyline. That's also why they had Cordy training with Angel in the basement. But again, Charisma's pregnancy made it physically impossible for her to do any of the stuff that Joss had planned, so the story was altered and Jasmine was created.

As for why they pursued a different romantic storyline for Angel, whether it was with Kate or Cordy, well... it was his show, now. He had to be on his own and apart from Buffy, so they couldn't just do the long-distance thing with Buffy forever. And it's not like season 1 didn't have crossovers where Angel and Buffy didn't reunite briefly. I justified it by saying that if Buffy fans didn't mind Buffy with Spike, then they shouldn't mind Angel with someone else, either. However I do agree that they could've also done something with him and Faith, but perhaps they thought the chemistry wasn't right.

Oh, Joss Whedon is a hypocrite, that's for sure.

Thanks for all those gifs!
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Old 08-07-2018, 08:13 PM
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Hi, Sam! NFL preseason begins this Thursday! Steelers and Eagles!
Hey Alex Yes it does, what day does the Steelers and Eagles play?
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Old 08-08-2018, 12:59 AM
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I'm doing good Mary

Wow, can't see I feel bad for your sister at all considering what she did to you and all.
What did you do today?

I don't understand my parents at all. What was even the point of taking me in if they aren't going to be there for me half of the time? Why does dad have to take her to her frickin job? He has a job. Why are they catering to her? Why couldn't she have her low life friends take her to work? Why can't she request a leave of absense? This doesn't make sense.


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Hi, Mary! Your sister broke her ankle? Maybe it was karma. But it's not right that your parents are there for her and not for you.

I'm glad the pills worked for you. And we already have a temp store manager right now, so hopefully things work out.

Yes, I know that Angel said Buffy's name before he lost his soul. My point was that he experienced that one true moment of happiness with Cordy(or the illusion of Cordy), and right at that moment he suddenly realized what was going to happen because of it, that Angelus was going to emerge. That's why I figured he said Buffy's name, because the last time that happened to him was when he was with her.

Well, Cordy was going to receive a major power upgrade in season 4 after her experience in that higher plane of existence. That's what was going to make her turn evil and go all Dark Phoenix on everyone, and she and Angel were going to fight and he'd eventually turn her back to her good side. Joss loves that Dark Phoenix storyline. That's also why they had Cordy training with Angel in the basement. But again, Charisma's pregnancy made it physically impossible for her to do any of the stuff that Joss had planned, so the story was altered and Jasmine was created.

As for why they pursued a different romantic storyline for Angel, whether it was with Kate or Cordy, well... it was his show, now. He had to be on his own and apart from Buffy, so they couldn't just do the long-distance thing with Buffy forever. And it's not like season 1 didn't have crossovers where Angel and Buffy didn't reunite briefly. I justified it by saying that if Buffy fans didn't mind Buffy with Spike, then they shouldn't mind Angel with someone else, either. However I do agree that they could've also done something with him and Faith, but perhaps they thought the chemistry wasn't right.

Oh, Joss Whedon is a hypocrite, that's for sure.

Thanks for all those gifs!
As I've said to Samuel, why is it that my parents are catering to her, and why is dad wasting his time taking her to her job?

I don't believe it was a mind jerk that caused him to say Buffy's name. There would have to be more meaning. Cordy doesn't deserve that.



I don't understand why Cordelia all of a sudden decided to change her mind 2 episodes after. Angel training Cordy on his show mirrors the way he was training and meditating with Buffy. Cordy and Angel have good chemistry and a natural rhythm as friends but as a romantic pairing everything felt forced and awkward. It didn’t help that their relationship essentially happened because everyone around them kept insisting that they were “meant to be” (that whole ridiculous “kyrumption” thing). If you need other character to tell the audience that a pairing is meant to be then it probably isn’t. Lorne and Fred forgot that Angel spent the majority of the beginning of Season 3 mourning about Buffy's death, and once she was resurrected by Willow or a little bit after, Bangel schedule a meeting somewhere between Los Angeles and Sunnydale.

That doesn't change the fact why Buffy and Angel broke up in The Prom. It doesn't change why Angel reluctantly left Buffy in Graduation Day Part 2. The both looked sad when they had to part ways. After that Angel and Buffy still held out hope. Angel consoles Buffy when Joyce dies in Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 5 episode: Forever, when Angel the Series Season 2 episode: Disharmony aired.








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I just got done watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 1 episode: The Puppet Show, and I thought it was delightful!!

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