LilyLover

I have to agree with most of what you said. I really enjoyed this episode. Soooo cute and adorable. Probably the best so far this series, and then Katie's, and then cook's. I thought Lara was fantastic. She was cute, and i liked her. She should've been in it from the beginning. It's not really fair that she's probably gotten more screentime than Panda though.

The only downside for this ep was that JJ didn't really seem connected with the rest of the skins characters, except cook and Thomas (I ship Thomas and JJ's friendship btw. They are great together) and it felt less than organic when JJ introduced lara to naomi and emily. There's not that sense of camaraderie this series, which i'm really really missing!!

Sadly, i must agree with everything you said about Naomily. Even a big gesture, no matter how romantic, or extravagant it is, is going to make me buy into their relationship again. The angst has gone too far, and the writers went too far with Naomi in the way that she carried out the cheating, and her lack of action since the cheating, although some of it has been believable (excluding the fact that the cheating happened almost a year ago and only a little bit of progress has been made) I feel like the whole of s4 was a bit of a waste for them. There's not a naomily scene from this series so far that i can rewatch and squee at, since the sweet scenes in 402 were undeniably tainted, rendering them redundant, so...i'm pretty much over them at this point.

I think Freddie should've been shown looking a little more down than he was, considering what happened with effy, but how much time is supposed to've passed in between freddie's ep and JJ's ep? I think that is of relevance here.

Overall, this episode gets a thumbs up!! Ollie and Lara's acting was good as well. The sex scene was probably the best sex scene of this gen, and it was long. It had the comedic element, especially from cook. "I've been drinkin' piss!!!"

That was just too funny. I was lolling for a stright ten minutes. I think jack's acting gets better and better everytime i see him, if that's even possible. He's just so organic all of the time.The boy is by far the most talented actor on the show. Even if he were to have a crap storyline, i'd probably like it just because of how well Jack portrays his characters.

kitsune

Very well said. It amazes me sometimes how he can pull off comedy and drama, all while making it appear to look effortless. For me, he is just enjoyable to watch.

I liked the episode. It had some really sweet and funny moments. I loved the gratuitous nakedness of Jack O'Connell and I loved JJ's loves scenes with Lara (they were so cute). I actually liked Lara, not sure why she gets the hate.

Inesal

I have found some of the overreactions to Naomily's rough patch to be a bit much. I think maybe the best word would be fickle. How else to explain people acting so outraged by two sequences? I am particularly tired of the "since Emily is still mad at Naomi after busting her cheating I have decided I will never buy them again as a couple" argument. Really? Seriously? People don't get over cheating overnight. Lets keep it real. I guess by that thought process than every single teen romance on tv overcoming problems is hard to buy too. Emily did not take the step of completely cutting off Naomi and I think that may be the problem. That is the time honored device. Staying together when there is turmoil in a romance. Who would think that would ever happen. Okay - it happens all the time.

Here's a heads up. Most romances go through tough times. Many even survive through infidelity. Why you would completely give up due to a whopping two sequences? Screw the hours of sexiness and love due to two sequences. Talk about losing faith easily. The show is treating the act of infidelity and the behaviors that follow it with maturity. Do we really want them to have dumbed it down and made it easy - and therefore less impactful in the end. There has been nothing between them that hasn't been unrealistic as far as what they are currently going through. Plenty of couples have gone through much worse and come out okay - even without a romantic gesture (though I hope we get one). Some of this is rough but it should be. Lets see how it ends up being played.

I will say this. Before this season I wondered if they were the kind of couple that would stay together for a long time. I pondered Emily losing herself in Naomi and I pondered Naomi being committed due to fear of being trapped. Now that conflict has entered the equation, we will really get to see. If they had not gone this route, the season could have ended with it never being certain they would truly be together a long time. Thank goodness they are touching on the two big issues this couple always had.

Of course. But life does not work that way. It is always easy to observe and know what the righteous thing to do is. It's always easier when it is not ourself making that decision - one that could mean never being with Naomi again (and if she left that is a distinct possibility - in real life people know that once you break it off there is not always that chance for reconciliation that most teen fare tries to make one believe).

Don't mean to sound annoyed. However when a show is attacked for being truthful in how Naomi and Emily would respond and some fans jump ship with the romance after two sequences (Naomi cheated - it isn't an easy thing to get past the person you love having sex with someone else) it is astonishing to me.

LilyLover

I don't appreciate you talking to me in a condescending manner; i'm very aware that couples go through rough times, and that many even survive infidelity.

I also don't appreciate being told that i'm overreacting, or that i'm fickle. As i told another member on this forum, everyone experiences and sees things differently. You may have liked naomily for different reasons than others did, and had different standards for them than others do. Not everyone will see things the same way as you, so people are going to have different reactions and tolerance thresholds. That doesn't necessarily mean that they're overreacting or fickle.

Also, some people may be able to get past infidelity, and for others it's something that they just cannot comprehend getting past. Saying that those who cannot get past it are overreacting is rediculous. It's just a different reaction, that's all, so it may seem like overreacting to you. Some people can't help how they feel about certain things.

It's taken more than two sequences to completely obliterate the feelings that i had for naomily. The whole of series 4 has done that.

I've watched other shows where cheating has occured, involving favorite couples of mine, and i've still shipped them just as hard when they've gotten through their rough patch, and whilst they were going through it. I have said countless times that the cheating in itself is not my main gripe, it's the way it was handled. I was appauled by the way Naomi went about the cheating and the way she reacted afterwards. The writers couldn't have made her look any more shady if they'd tried. I also don't like that so much time has passed without her realising that just loving emily through her anger and waiting for forgiveness isn't going to be enough. I don't mind emily still being upset, or angry. That's most likely what would happen in real life. I'm just saying: I used to respect Naomi, and i now have no respect whatsoever for her. I dislike her character, therefore making it near impossible for me to ship naomily. This is my main problem. I don't want emily with her. I don't like that emily is always the one to get shat on at the hands of Naomi. It's just not my idea of what a relationship should entail, even if their misfortunes will inevitably promote growth in their relationship and individual growth.

The writers have gone too far for me to be able to ship them again, so this is why i say that the gesture in the finale will have little or no effect on me. However, that's not to say that you should feel the same way. These are just my reasons for why I'm not feeling Naomily anymore. To reiterate: everyone is different and entitled to ship whomever they want for whatever reasons. They are also entitled to not ship couples if the couples are not serving them what they came for. What would be the point in going to a restaurant and ordering a specific dish, only to find that a different dish (which you dislike) arrives, and still eating it anyway?

Erm, I don't think that what is being portrayed hasn't been handled with maturity and realism. It certainly has and the writers are to be applauded for that! I really disagree with the seemingly popular notion that emily needs to hurry up and forgive naomi so that they can be happy again, since that really isn't realistic either, because even when emily does forgive naomi, things may still be a little rocky with trust issues and whatnot. It takes time to heal, but i don't think that the time that has passed with them living in their current situation is realistic, with such little progress having been made - although it's not impossible for this to happen. I just think it's a bit unlikely. Notice i didn't say that no progress has been made?

I had my reasons for shipping naomily. When those reasons no longer ring true for me, what would be the point in me shipping them when they displease me to the degree that they do? It's not logical. But if you and others can still ship them, then that's fantastic.

Having said that, we're rediculously off topic Erm.....JJ. There. On topic

chemistry86

Thank you LilyLover. I have felt this condescension for a while too. First of all skins is not supposed to be compared to RL. I am watching for escapism so if something is no longer entertaining I will reject it. It doesn't make us fickle because the decision to stop supporting something you appreciated happens over a period of time. People don't just turned themselves on and off at the drop of a hat. It has nothing to do with being 'fickle,' and everything to do with how WE perceive the writing of the couple to be.

It's hard to deny N/E is poorly written right now because they don't have enough time to focus on them. They opened up a big storyline that they had to wrap up in eight episodes. Due to this it almost seems as if they will have to rush a resolution in the finale as a consequence.

BridgeChick

Yeah, I would have no problem w/ Naomi & Emily being in this stage of their relationship (& lingering there) if there were going to be more than eight episodes. Because this series is so condensed, I think I would've preferred a breakup, and then watched them rebuild (actually I thought after Katie's ep, they were going to breakup). However, I do think the route the writers chose is realistic & true. It's a bit frustrating but I do appreciate them, to use a cliche, kepping it real.

As for Naomi and some big gesture...If Emily isn't ready to truly forgive then nothing Naomi does will matter. It's like JJ/Lara (yes I know they haven't been through as much) If Lara had decided JJ wasn't the person she thought he was, or couldn't see him in her life, then despite how cute it was, the ukulele serenade still would've earned JJ a rejection.

Back to something happier, I can't get enough of JJ and his mom in the car or a naked Jack/Cook.

Inesal

IMO, it is pretty sharply written so I guess I don't have a hard time at all denying that. Just because it is not as easily accessible - as with most teen breakups on tv, doesn't mean it is poorly written.

There is no "it can't be compared to real life" rule When dealing with romance and the aftereffects of cheating, it is more than fair to compare to real life -really any aspect can be compared to real life with me understanding that much on Skins is hyperstylized and other things aren't. We all find different things entertaining and we all find different things to be escapism.

Why do you think it will be rushed? In two sequences, it has been determined by some viewers there is no way things can be okay again. In the last episode it's likely they will get more than two sequences.

Yeah but every teen show seems to do the breakup and then be reunited move after cheating occurs. I like they aren't taking that way out yet again. That they are representing the not so low percentage of persons that do attempt to stay in a romance with someone who cheated on them and how difficult that is to get over. I do get what you are saying about condensed but considering how hard those two sequences were taken by many fans, maybe it being condensed it good.

I just find it sad that a plotline is being attacked for not going the perfunctory route but instead aiming higher - and much, much smarter.

LilyLover

I don't even think that some people are thinking that deep into it. I think that the main reason for Naomily's storyline being attacked, is because people are watching the show and simply not enjoying naomily, so as chemistry86 said, they are rejecting it.

ETA: Call me Steph, Chemistry86

idkmybffjill

I find it sad when people can't accept the concept of subjectivity.

LilyLover

Exactly. It makes me want to and (which is effectively the same thing, but i felt that both emoticons needed to be utilized)

ETA: But at the same time Inesal, if the show is giving you what you want then it shouldn't really matter what everyone else thinks. You're enjoying it and that's the main thing

Inesal

I just questioned points that were made. When someone for example says that the handling of the subject matter on a program cannot be compared to real life I have to question that.
No comment.

Bridgechick, great point. There are two areas that have always needed to be dealt with. While Naomi's was known since last season, the one that had become clearer is Emily's want for the idyll and how, when the person lets her down, she loses all belief in them - Katie, her Mom, and Naomi. That is why I love how JJ confronted her.

i never learn

this episode was so bad. wow. and really, a chick with a baby? nice touch with them ending in bed together... not! loved thomas though. thomas and jj are cute friends. same with cook and jj. your bag's on fire. i loved that jj told emily the truth too. her taking her crap out on jj was unnecessary. and yea, i didn't appreciate them mimicking sid's and cassie's sex-a-thon either! they should of gave panda an ep, quite frankly. =/

lisztomania

this wasn't one of my favorite episodes but there were moments in it that i completely loves, esp aesthetically.

Beached

If only more of S4 was like this. The tone of this one was perfect and would've suited much of the rest so well. The first four eps flowed end to end and it's a shame JJ's was parked between two that cut that off. So bittersweet. Ollie and Georgia Henshaw brilliant, as was Lucy Kirkwood once again. The family stuff even went one better than last time, incredibly. At last more than a fleeting glimpse of Tomo too. Wasn't too much to ask was it, show?

Maybe my initial feelings about it sound a tad underwhelmed. Page 3 of this thread if anyone's really arsed. My overall opinion hasn't changed much in that it was one of the best along with Thomas and Emily, just my affection for it grew to ridiculous levels over time much like JJ's S3.

minkyfan

God, that ukulele scene will go down in infamy.