[Tomorrow's skies]

Originally Posted by Soz (View Post) My biggest problem with McCaffrey is how much she hates her female characters. Some of them would have been awesome in the hands of other writers, but OMG, I wanted to set a few of her books on fire because I was so angry with her treatment of her heroines.

What would she do?

I seriously gave up after reading one paragraph!

[TheAngel]

Thanks for the new thread.

[onionroach]

Soz, Burning Water is the only Diana Tregarde book that I haven't read. I like Children of the Night. I don't know if I'd like it now..but I really did when I read it years and years ago.

I just picked up Palimpsest by Catherynne Valente, River of Gods by Ian McDonald, and Endless Blue by Wen Spencer from the library. I can't wait to get started on them.

I am just starting Bitter Night by Diana Pharoah Francis. It's her urban fantasy series. It's not in first-person pov. I'm liking it.

[Soz]

Originally Posted by DiagonalZipper (View Post) What would she do? I seriously gave up after reading one paragraph!

Her first few books had rape in them that most people pass off as "forced seduction," the female characters were always considered not good enough for leadership positions, most of them were treated as nothing more than brood mares- sometimes giving birth to 20 children!, and probably her best heroine got raped and slapped around by her husband, did nothing more later in the series than serve coffee, and her husband and his dragon conspired to get her dragon pregnant so she couldn't take part in a dangerous mission because women are too weak to be in dangerous situations. All of this for the woman who saved Pern in the first book!

Originally Posted by onionroach (View Post) Soz, Burning Water is the only Diana Tregarde book that I haven't read. I like Children of the Night. I don't know if I'd like it now..but I really did when I read it years and years ago. I just picked up Palimpsest by Catherynne Valente, River of Gods by Ian McDonald, and Endless Blue by Wen Spencer from the library. I can't wait to get started on them. I am just starting Bitter Night by Diana Pharoah Francis. It's her urban fantasy series. It's not in first-person pov. I'm liking it.

I don't recommend Burning Water. It was one of her earlier books plus her first urban fantasy and she just didn't seem comfortable writing it. I'll be starting Children of the Night tonight.

I've heard great things about Valente but I've sworn off the library, except for the new Queen's Thief book and the new Shinn book, so I'm not trying any new to me authors right now unless I already own their books, although I'll probably add her books to my BookMooch wishlist, which is also serving as my to be read at some point list.

I'm not sure if I'll read Francis' urban fantasy or not. I thought her Path series was okay and I haven't read her Crosspointe books yet. I do like that her UF isn't first person though.

[TheAngel]

Soz, that sounds really horrible. I'm glad I never got into her books so I didn't have to go through the frustration of seeing protagonists treated like that.

[Tomorrow's skies]

I see what you mean. That's horrible. What kind of woman would write that on a regular basis? I can't even tolerate cheating in books!

[Soz]

I didn't really notice it the first time I read her books when I was around 12 or 13, but then I re-read them when I was I think 18 or 19 and whoa! I think some of the truly nasty stuff was due to the time she was writing (before even the bodice-ripper romances came along) and the thinking at the time was that female characters couldn't make choices for themselves and McCaffrey was one of the first SF authors to include romantic sub-plots but they had to be of the "forced seduction" variety. But the thing is, she's still writing that way while other authors her age are writing much better female characters. I'm thankful that she inspired so many authors I read now and started me on the road of reading women SFF authors, but I think I'll be giving her books a pass from now on. Somehow, I finished Catalyst and even the cats were annoying- and I love cats and cat characters in books. I won't even get into her thoughts on gay characters because my head might explode.

[Gabriela]

I'm currently a little more than halfway through "General Winston's Daughter" by Sharon Shinn - it's pretty good so far, although it really reminds me of Summers At Castle Auburn (which is still my favorite). I was wondering if anyone had read Shinn's "Fortune and Fate"? I only just heard of it and it sounds pretty good to me

[Soz]

I found General Winston's Daughter to be more heartbreaking than Summers at Castle Auburn, but I won't say any more. I've read all of Shinn's books except Gateway now, which I'm waiting to get from the library.

Fortune and Fate is good, but the main Twelve Houses series is better, IMO.

I've also read most of Shinn's shorter fiction and I just got Never After from the library Friday, which has a Shinn novella in it.

I'm past the halfway point with Children of the Night and I guess I just don't like Lackey's urban fantasy much. I'll probably try at least the first books in her related Bedlam's Bard and SERRAted Edge series though.

[Gabriela]

Aw, now you've got me all anxious to finish General Winston's Daughter

Thanks for your input - I love Summers At Castle Auburn but really haven't read anything else by Shinn. Next by her I'll be reading Quatrain

[*Scarlett*]

TFTNT!

Soz, I totally agree with you about Anne McCaffrey. I refuse to read another book by her because of her misogyny. She ruined Pern for me.

[Soz]

Originally Posted by Gabriela (View Post) Aw, now you've got me all anxious to finish General Winston's Daughter Thanks for your input - I love Summers At Castle Auburn but really haven't read anything else by Shinn. Next by her I'll be reading Quatrain

I hope you enjoy both Shinn books. I read most of her books in a single year. It's amazing that I had a rough start with her books and thought I wouldn't like her, but then I read Summers.

Originally Posted by *Scarlett* (View Post) Soz, I totally agree with you about Anne McCaffrey. I refuse to read another book by her because of her misogyny. She ruined Pern for me.

It's so nice to meet someone else who feels the same. I've been called crazy for my thoughts on McCaffrey. It just boggles my mind that such a strong woman (I read the bio written by her son and whoa, McCaffrey went through hell with her husband) could have so much hatred for her female characters.


I finished Children of the Night and I'll definitely be giving this series away when I'm done. I liked it better than Burning Water, until the Central Park scene, then I was sick to my stomach and couldn't wait to finish just so it could be over.

[Gabriela]

Originally Posted by Soz (View Post) I hope you enjoy both Shinn books. I read most of her books in a single year. It's amazing that I had a rough start with her books and thought I wouldn't like her, but then I read Summers.

Is Summers your favorite of hers or do you have another one? I will say that I am definitely more drawn to her YA books than the adult ones...I'm not sure exactly what it is though.

[TheAngel]

I just rented Idoru by William Gibson from the library. He's the guy who wrote Neuromancer and he does a lot of cyberpunk so I'm really looking forward to reading it. I also rented some YA fantasy Raven's Gate by Anthony Horowitz and Beka Cooper: Terrier by Tamora Pierce.

[Soz]

Originally Posted by TheAngel (View Post) I just rented Idoru by William Gibson from the library. He's the guy who wrote Neuromancer and he does a lot of cyberpunk so I'm really looking forward to reading it. I also rented some YA fantasy Raven's Gate by Anthony Horowitz and Beka Cooper: Terrier by Tamora Pierce.

The spouse is a huge William Gibson fan and finally got back to reading his books recently- and he can't stop talking about them so now I want to read more by him too. I'll probably be reading at least Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive this year.

I liked Pierce's Alanna series, but I haven't read any of her other series yet.

Originally Posted by Gabriela (View Post) Is Summers your favorite of hers or do you have another one? I will say that I am definitely more drawn to her YA books than the adult ones...I'm not sure exactly what it is though.

I have a bunch of favorites by Shinn (her whole Safe-Keeper series, most of the Twelve Houses series, and 3 of her Samaria books) but I have a soft spot for Summers because I was having a hard time liking Shinn's books after expecting to love them and almost gave up, but gave Summers a chance and loved it. I picked up Gateway at the library last week too, so I'll have lots of Shinn reading coming up.

I'm reading Hawkmistress! by Marion Zimmer Bradley now. I've been enjoying the older SF I've been reading this year.