Books - Breaking Dawn by Stephenie Meyer: Don't Look If you haven't read. - Page 3

_Addict_ · 08-06-2008, 08:24 AM

Val, I have no doubt that Emmett and I would flatten many houses. Edward and I might flatten the entire USA

It was more from the point of view Rose seems so cold and detached for the most part, and incapable of that kind of passion. I too thought that Rosalie might run away with the baby or covet her as her own and I worried about Bella and Edward and really the entire Cullen family and how they'd deal with it if Rose went outer limits! I remember reading that the nights were split holding Renesmee between Jacob, Rose and Esme.

I wondered about Renee too but I guess SM gave us our dose of Renee up front for the wedding. I always felt like she was sort of wrapped up in herself such that a long separation from Bella wasn't out of the ordinary. I just assumed Bella would get to her eventually

And I was happy that Charlie didn't end up alone. I suspected him and Sue Clearwater as soon as I read she was cooking for him and Billy. In fact I wondered about it when Charlie was spending so much time at the Clearwater's after Harry died. I thought 'there's something brewing there'

bettybaby · 08-06-2008, 09:34 AM

sher and val,

i'm loving how your avis are "eyeing" each other

god, where to begin!!!!!! i really thought jacob would be killed off, that whole sacrifice a main character for the good of the story concept! or that he would have imprinted with leah

but SM surprised us

and bella's whole pregnancy and delivery, yikes. that's why i was all rosemary's baby. sher help me out with that one

as well as believing rose would go "hand that rocks the cradle" as well. i think rose held onto the baby the most b/c it was her dream to be a mother, and therefore, she could live vicariously through bella and her baby. also she is just so selfish, to me anyway. and that leads into her relationship with emmett. i think they were able to achieve the type of passion he described b/c it was likely very much centered on the fact that it was a form of "worship" for rose! remember when she describes her relationship with emmett to bella in eclipse (??) that "he gives me exactly what i need," or something to that effect. i think she always needed that kind of worship, and it didn't wane after becoming a vampire, in fact it may have become a stronger need b/c she had lost so much. so it makes me think in a way of "normal" intimacy between couples......you know, if i give him what he wants, then i get what i want

rose and emmett are such a contrast to edward and bella. as we've discussed their love for each other is so selfless

and i absolutely loved that practically the first thing bella wants to do after becoming a vampire was jump edward

but then again, who could blame her???

and god the whole honeymoon, so sweet and hot at the same time!!!!

i know i'll be going back and rereading those parts

and yea, i totally saw the how sue and charlie thing coming

btw sher, warning: jule is "team jacob," and i told her i looked forward to her "rationalizations" on that topic. i also warned her that i would be prepared

she's not quite finished with the book though.

KCsGirl · 08-06-2008, 09:52 AM

i thought the honeymoon was sweet.. bella freaking out before she went outside on the beach was just so cute! the anticipation and anxiety... but then she saw edward and all her worries washed away..

i'm actually team switzerland.. i would have been happy either way.. but this ending definitely made me giddy.

i actually really like rose.. even though she's a cold frigid Bia***..

it's a great contrast to the other characters.. and especially to emmett.

hehe.. emmett and bella as siblings just makes me smile.

_Addict_ · 08-06-2008, 10:05 AM

I really did wonder if Leah was going to imprint on Jacob but I knew it couldn't happen or he'd have felt the pull. I guess I more wondered on his half if he'd fall for her but didn't think he would because he's said in the past all he sees is Bella. Leah's character was *almost* an intrusion in this book for me. The way it was written you begin to understand her pain better than Jacob's and I'd of rather seen the pain more from Jacobs point of view. Their pain is common but the sources are so different. She lost her love due to imprinting and understood to a degree due to pack mentality but Jacob loved a woman he could never had and chose to stick around to help her in spite of the pain it caused him. So they are alike in being hurt by someone how loved them in their own way but not in the way they dealt with it or their maturity or what not. I'm not being fair to Leah I suppose. I love that she felt freer in Jacob's pack but I guess I just didn't really want to know more about her?

I never believed that Rose wanted to live vicariously through Bella. I believe she wanted that baby for herself even in spite of her brother's tie to her. I think Rose believed that Bella would die giving birth and she'd be one step closer to being a mother. To me that is the real monster in Rosalie and I think she'd do just about anything to get a child. I understood why Bella went to her for help but I hated Rosalie's possiveness given her mistreatment of Bella in the past and her disregard for Bella's life over the life of the baby. In the end she didn't end up doing what I thought she would but it changed the way I saw her. She just seems so angry all the time. All the bickering with Jacob. She talked to Jacob more in BD than she did to Emmett. She is so selfish Betty the polar opposite to Edward's selflessness.

Emmett never came across to me as the worshiping type. He seems sort of macho really. Not that he doesn't love Rosalie but I never felt the strong connection between them the way you feel it between Bella and Edward or Japser and Alice. I suppose though that answers my own thoughts. Maybe Rosalie's connection to Emmett is more physical love than loving his soul? I can definitely see your point about "if I give him what he wants then I get what I want" from Rose's thoughts. You raise a good point!

I swear to you Betty I squealed aloud when she wanted to jump Edward after her transformation!!! I was dreading the lack of physical relationship practically from the point on Isle Esme when he said he'd never make love to her again until she was transformed. I loved that she got him into bed again though. It made them so much more human and tangible. I mean Edward's got endless self control but what man can resist a woman he worships in negligee who wants to sleep with him? No man I know

I truly think that SM's inclusion of their expanding physical love was what made the book for me. We know so much about Bella and Edward that the book could have fallen short in character development but because of the physical relationship expansion it didn't.

And when she let him into her head at the end. I almost cried. How corny is that? But I couldn't help myself. It's something he always wanted and she was able to give it to him. And his physical reaction to it. I'd uses some four letter expletives here if I could

but damn it was HOT!

I read past through the whole honeymoon the first night. I could't put it down

It was so delicious!!! I will be rereading it again too

Jule told me she liked Jacob but I didn't realize she preferred him to Edward

How can that be?

I did land up liking Jacob a lot more by the end of this book. At the end of Eclipse I was angry with him for his manipulation of Bella and his, well to me anyway, his bratty behaviour. He's much more mature in this book. Besides, he's imprinted. Jule can't go against pack rules

(She's going to kick me for that one isn't she?

)

Val you're Switerland? I'm so impressed. I'm definitely a bratty spoiled Edward and Bella girl but also satisfied

The honeymooon part was awesome! I kept thinking of Edward naked out in the water waiting for her and it was so distracting for me

Of course I say that with the admittance that he's the perfect man in my head so

I don't hate Rose. I feel for her. I just think she's so much more shallow than the rest of the Cullens. It is a great contrast to the other characters. I suppose it would be boring if all the Cullens were perfect and nice

Good point Val!

Emmett and Bella crack me up! I love their exchanges! The whole arm wrestling thing was priceless. I could almost see Edward's smug face and pictured Emmett as this pouting little toddler when he lost

KCsGirl · 08-06-2008, 11:19 AM

even though i really like rose, i did think that her actions towards bella were callous. i mean completely disregarding bella for the sake of the baby.. but i guess she knew that if bella didn't survive.. maybe edward wouldn't want anything to do with the "thing" that killed his love.

team switzerland, but i've always swayed closer towards e/b. because i knew they belonged together. but at the same time.. i could always rationalize j/b. to myself anyway.

naked edward..

it's a wonder that bella didn't

when she saw him for the first time in all his glory!

_Addict_ · 08-06-2008, 11:41 AM

Can you imagine what a sight that would be to behold? I mean I can because I have imagined it

but seriously. The way Bella describes the rest of him, the absolute perfection just in his face and then his chest...add in some muscular legs and arms and then remove his clothes so you can take it all in in a single gaze...

It would be a good thing he didn't have to sleep and I would surely be as bruised as Bella or more because I can't imagine that desire ever being quenched!!!!!

I couldn't rationalize Jacob and Bella. I loved that he took care of her when Edward left but it was always one sided love to me. When Bella admitted her feelings for him in Eclipse I was mad at her. How could you love Edward so much that you'd give up your life for him and then still have room to love Jacob? That just goes to show you how absorbed I am by Edward. I couldn't imagine having room or making room for anyone but him in my heart. I am putting my feelings off on to Bella

I assumed that Edward would love or learn to love the baby because it was part of Bella, even if he'd lost Bella. Given the hindsight that she has Bella's eyes Edward was a goner before she was born

Renesmee's gift also binds her to Edward on a different level, almost proof that she is of part of him. I imagine he is too kind to have ever hated the baby even if she had killed Bella. It's not that he isn't capable of hurting her, more that he's too rational and controlled to ever allow himself to do it. I think he'd have treated the baby as Bella would have wanted him to in the event of Bella's death to honour Bella.

bettybaby · 08-06-2008, 12:12 PM

val, sher!

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I never believed that Rose wanted to live vicariously through Bella. I believe she wanted that baby for herself even in spite of her brother's tie to her. I think Rose believed that Bella would die giving birth and she'd be one step closer to being a mother.

but when i said vicariously, i didn't mean it so literally

the baby allowed her to be a mother, even though she wasn't her own, and you're right, rose likely assumed bella would die giving birth, and then she would have the baby all to herself. whether through manipulation or b/c she beleived edward would reject her b/c he wanted nothing to do "with the thing that killed his love," (good point Val) the result would have been the same for rose.

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To me that is the real monster in Rosalie and I think she'd do just about anything to get a child. I understood why Bella went to her for help

completely understood why bella would go to her. she knew that no one would look at the situation the way rose did, or provide the support she would need in order to keep the baby.

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She is so selfish Betty the polar opposite to Edward's selflessness.

rose does make a very good counter point to the rest of the cullen clan. and as you pointed out, in particular to edward

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Emmett never came across to me as the worshiping type. He seems sort of macho really......

.

I think that you're right, but also i was looking at it from the perspective that "love making" is a form of worship in and of itself. and from that perspective i believe emmett has that capacity within him. and let's face it, that's the only place rose was going to get what she needed (unconditional worship/adoration/devotion) in that regard. unless of course she joined the voluturi (sp?) and became one of their "fishermen"

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I swear to you Betty I squealed aloud when she wanted to jump Edward after her transformation!!! I was dreading the lack of physical relationship practically from the point on Isle Esme when he said he'd never make love to her again until she was transformed. I loved that she got him into bed again though. It made them so much more human and tangible. I mean Edward's got endless self control but what man can resist a woman he worships in negligee who wants to sleep with him?

destroyed pillows and crushed headboards FTW!!!!!

and i was even more anxious for the development of their sex life given the fact that edward was devastated that he had "hurt" bella while making love to her!!!!!!! practice makes perfect though

and the fact that she had to be careful with him initially after her transformation was very cute

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And when she let him into her head at the end. I almost cried. How corny is that? But I couldn't help myself. It's something he always wanted and she was able to give it to him. And his physical reaction to it. I'd uses some four letter expletives here if I could

but damn it was HOT!

OMG so true, i had to read that passage a few times b/c i wasn't getting it at first! it was 3:00am after all but, gaaaaaaahhhhhhhh

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I read past through the whole honeymoon the first night. I couldn't put it down

It was so delicious!!! I will be rereading it again too

s enthusiastically, and val........god, edward in the ocean, gleaming in the moonlight

and bella's unease and insecurity hit just the right tone for her character. i also loved that edward was a virgin as well. despite his charm, and beauty, he was just as vulnerable as bella

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Jule told me she liked Jacob but I didn't realize she preferred him to Edward

How can that be?

I did land up liking Jacob a lot more by the end of this book. At the end of Eclipse I was angry with him for his manipulation of Bella and his, well to me anyway, his bratty behavior. He's much more mature in this book. Besides, he's imprinted. Jule can't go against pack rules

(She's going to kick me for that one isn't she?

)

jacob completely redeemed himself by the end for me. and i wouldn't be surprised if there is a new series about the story of jacob and renesmee!

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Val you're Switzerland? I'm so impressed. I'm definitely a bratty spoiled Edward and Bella girl but also satisfied

i could never be Switzerland!!!! edward and bella is the only way i wanted to see this end!

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The honeymoon part was awesome! I kept thinking of Edward naked out in the water waiting for her and it was so distracting for me

Of course I say that with the admittance that he's the perfect man in my head so

ditto, see above

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Emmett and Bella crack me up! I love their exchanges! The whole arm wrestling thing was priceless. I could almost see Edward's smug face and pictured Emmett as this pouting little toddler when he lost

i agree, and wished there were more of these kinds of exchanges with the rest of the family!

so sad its over

but discussing makes up for it!

p.s. god, went over the 25 smiley limit again, although quoting you girls only added to that

thus i edited out yours!!!! LOL

eta: oh god sher, you posted while i was babbling!!!! and i see we're going all fangirl now, so i'll have to come back to do that, i should have left my house 1/2 hour ago!!!!!! (damn no more smileys!!!!!) and sher...........zac......elle shoot........can't you see it???? "styled" like that i could very well picture him as edward......thudding again!

bye girls----hugging

KCsGirl · 08-06-2008, 01:29 PM

i can't post any thoughts right now.. except.. your guys' reply posts are epic!

_Addict_ · 08-06-2008, 02:09 PM

We're very chatty Val! I blame Edward

Betty I have so much to say about your thoughts but it will have to wait for a bit

bettybaby · 08-06-2008, 06:31 PM

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Originally Posted by KCsGirl (View Post)

i can't post any thoughts right now.. except.. your guys' reply posts are epic!

chatty FTW!!!!!!

and sher, i just noticed your RL sucky summer comment

:pets:, but

for more chatting

and where's jule

KCsGirl · 08-06-2008, 10:08 PM

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Originally Posted by bett

destroyed pillows and crushed headboards FTW!!!!!

i don't think i pictured their sex life so rough!

the second time they made love after her dream, it was sweet, mostly because it kind of solidified in bella's mind that edward did want her as much as she wanted him. haha.. and who else thought it was hilarious that bella doesn't noticed two bitten pillows or a smashed up headboard?! apparently, edward is better than we imagined..

with all of bella's insecurities, no matter how many times edward tells her otherwise.. her freaking out in the bathroom was just priceless!! it was perfect!

i think i might have been disappointed a little if bella and jake ended up together in the end, but i wouldn't have been devastated.. it just makes sense that she ends up with edward.. that's the whole point of twilight.. a human teenage girl falls in love with a vampire.. it's not.. she falls in love with a vampire.. but ends up with a "shape shifter".

but i still love me some jake.. especially in BD because he was more matured..

*Catherine* · 08-07-2008, 08:03 AM

Interesting posts guys..

I'm just going to re-post my thoughts that I posted on the Twilight board..cause I'm lazy..

I didnt really enjoy the honeymoon. I mean, I thought the pillow thing was kinda hot..and funny, but honestly? begging and crying to your husband for intercourse of all things? Please.

I loved Jacobs POV. I may be biased because I loved Jacob in the first place, but whatever. Loved when he really took possession of his power. His interactions of Rosalie were hilarious. And Seth? Awesomeness! Definitely a favourite character now

I knew she would have Jacob imprint, and wasnt happy to see that it was bella's daughter. I was livid actually, by that whole Bella pregnant storyline...but it was better than what I was expecting, but I was expecting..well, I had low expectations.

Not enough of the Cullens..I wanted to see more of Jasper and Alice, as well as the others. I wish she would just write a whole book on JUST the Cullens actually. That would be sweet.

Heres my main problem with BD I think. I have a huge problem with the fact that there were basically zero negative consequences for making the decisions that she did. There were ultimately no negative consequences for choosing to become a Vampire (she got to keep her werewolf friends..and even Charlie), or for choosing Edward over Jacob (Jacob just imprints..).

Everything was packaged very nicely and wrapped with a neat pretty, little bow. No worries about Bella never experiencing adult life, cause hey, she got pregnant and gave birth, what more of a woman experience can you ask for? No worries about being a vamp and potentially killing someone, because unlike all other new vamps, she can somehow resist every temptation..and can still have relationships with her family and friends. And no worries about Jacob..because he imprints. And on her daughter, so its like he gets a piece of Bella anyways And bonus! What a way to really have the ultimate truce between the wolves and vamps.

I feel like there should have been MORE struggle than what appeared in the book. It should have been impossible to reincorporate her family back into her life. There should have been MORE to the Volturi exchange.

I thought that was going to be exciting and heartbreaking. Seeing the heartbreaking goodbyes between E/B/Nessie dont mean anything if Jacob and Nessie dont actually leave the scene. I think Jacob should have had to escape with Nessie..I'm not saying E/B had to die, but they should've had to escape and E/B have to reunite with them or something. I do think there should have been some deaths..crucial deaths. Sacrificing deaths. That would tie into the cover art, because as much as chess is about strategy, its also about sacrifice.

Overall, Very anti-climatic. And too Happily Ever After. And because Bella ultimately had minimal sacrifice to get it, how can it really be appreciated?

bettybaby · 08-07-2008, 08:55 AM

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Originally Posted by *Catherine* (View Post)

Interesting posts guys..

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I loved Jacobs POV. I may be biased because I loved Jacob in the first place, but whatever. Loved when he really took possession of his power. His interactions of Rosalie were hilarious. And Seth? Awesomeness! Definitely a favourite character now

jacob's POV in this book was great! he matured so much over the course of the series, for which i was glad, otherwise i found him somewhat annoying.

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Not enough of the Cullens..I wanted to see more of Jasper and Alice, as well as the others. I wish she would just write a whole book on JUST the Cullens actually. That would be sweet.

no not enough at all, especially since it had been hinted at via the media that there would be more cullen histroy/story line.

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Heres my main problem with BD I think. I have a huge problem with the fact that there were basically zero negative consequences for making the decisions that she did. There were ultimately no negative consequences for choosing to become a Vampire (she got to keep her werewolf friends..and even Charlie), or for choosing Edward over Jacob (Jacob just imprints..).

Everything was packaged very nicely and wrapped with a neat pretty, little bow. No worries about Bella never experiencing adult life, cause hey, she got pregnant and gave birth, what more of a woman experience can you ask for? No worries about being a vamp and potentially killing someone, because unlike all other new vamps, she can somehow resist every temptation..and can still have relationships with her family and friends. And no worries about Jacob..because he imprints. And on her daughter, so its like he gets a piece of Bella anyways And bonus! What a way to really have the ultimate truce between the wolves and vamps.

I feel like there should have been MORE struggle than what appeared in the book. It should have been impossible to reincorporate her family back into her life. There should have been MORE to the Volturi exchange.

i can see your point with regard to these issues. the ending was a very nice neat package, and bella didn't suffer any undue consequences. edward suffered more, IMO, but then again, that's what edward does, and part of why i love him. for me though, i was relieved by the "happy" resolution, b/c they had already gone through so much, and seemed to me that their happiness was well deserved (insert sappy fangirl mode

.) I strongly agree that bella's transformation should have been a bit more problematic than it was. her worrying over being sloppy at meal time shouldn't have been the only difficulty that she had to overcome. but like i said, for me, edward and bella had already struggled a great deal and thus all i wanted was for them to be happy.

jacob's imprinting on renessmee was out of left field for me, and a very convienient, and not necessarily the resolution i would have liked. and if there had been a sacrificial character, jacob would have been it i thought. but then again, i won't be surprised if SM writes a new book/series that tells the story of jacob and renesmee.
.

the lack of volturi reprisal was somewhat surprising to me as well. but i viewed them as true bullies, and as such, when push comes to shove, bullies back away.

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That would tie into the cover art, because as much as chess is about strategy, its also about sacrifice.

Overall, Very anti-climatic. And too Happily Ever After. And because Bella ultimately had minimal sacrifice to get it, how can it really be appreciated?

you make a good point regarding the book's cover art. in chess as in life sacrifices have to be made, and they are often a result of conflicts that we have no control over. i wonder if some of SMs more simplistic plot approaches stem from "knowing your audience." these novels are considered "teen or young adult" novels and maybe that influenced the story's immature (?) development.

although i understand why these books have such a wide-spread appeal--trust me i'm way out of the demographic--i can also appreciate that as a younger person the world is often viewed in black and white. meaning there is no GRAY. real life, especially as we get older presents us with many shades of gray, and rarely offers such clear-cut answers. yet often when we are faced with choices, there are ones that immediately appear more sound then others. bella for example clearly had a choice to make regarding her baby, and didn't seek the easy way out, which many of us are often guilty of doing. bella's decision is certainly one that is a hot button topic for many woman today, and SM illustrated that the quick fix isn't always the answer. SM makes bella's decision look easy, however, and generates another conflict for the reader; more gray as it were.

as sad as i am to see the series completed (except for midnight sun

), now is the right time to end it. too often stories drag on, and loose their purpose. what's often worse, is that an author may seek to make their stories more and more outrageous in an attempt to keep readers.

at certain points in BD i felt that way, particularly regarding the way bella would be forced to "deliver" her child. pretty dang dramatic

....but again, it is just a story, and a rather imaginative one at that

and overall i was happy with it, the fact that edward and bella found their life better after her transformation was the resolution i was hoping for, so for that i am not disappointed.

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i don't think i pictured their sex life so rough!

Val, c'mon!!!!!!

And sher I still want my Edward gush fest

~Jewel~ · 08-07-2008, 01:22 PM

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Originally Posted by bettybaby (View Post)

and where's jule

I'm here.

Man, you guys are writing soooooo much, I really can't keep up.

What are we talking about?

I'm still cracking up over one thing: Renesmee

That name makes me giggle every time.

KCsGirl · 08-07-2008, 01:47 PM

i loved when Bella yelled at Jake. "you nicknamed my daughter after the loch ness monster?!"