Hyde would have to frog Eric and then Kelso and Fez for laughing.

Jackie and Eric really needed an episode where they realized they were dating each other's best friends and would probably end up as in-laws, basically.

i'm re-watching the good seasons of this wonderful show. loving all the J/H scenes!!

just watched the episode You Shook Me (5.22), where Hyde tells Jackie he doesn't want her hanging out with Kelso alone and reminds her of the "get off my boyfriend" moment. She asks him, "what to i have to do to get you to stop bringing that up?" and he looks at her suggestively.

my question to the group: what do y'all think it is?

sorry if this is too dirty! try to phrase your answers in code.

i think they have already had sex at this point. do you think it's sex period or some other sex act?

so... what was the thing hyde wanted jackie to do???

man, these episodes with them are so good!! why on earth did they break them up for good?! it's like watching romeo and juliet, knowing that it all explodes in that awful 8th season....

:wave: Hi, likeTV2! Welcome to the Zen thread.

Hyde's that could be anything, really, but it probably has to do with sex. Either role-playing or a certain act. It's actually a terrible moment, one that does nothing good for Hyde's character, and it conflicts with his development from "Prom Night" on.

Warning: Rant-ish meta-thing ahead. :lol:

Sadly, too much of his behavior toward Jackie in season 5 does the same (especially in the end; he's badly manipulated by the writers to create conflict), and I wish he'd been characterized more like his season 2-seson 3 self during season 5. Starting from "Prom Night," Hyde is protective of Jackie not out of any sense of possessiveness or personal gain but because he believes it's the right thing to do. And to protect her, he often puts himself in danger, makes himself vulnerable to her, or puts himself in uncomfortable situations.

In season 5, his self-sacrificing, noble, compassionate nature is very hard to find. A lot of this has to do with the writers playing up the Hyde/Jackie/Kelso angle and manufacturing conflict for that arc rather than letting conflicts rise organically from who the characters are. The writers strengthened the passive-aggressive aspect to his personality, which previously had manifested only in burns. Instead of being "a man and forgiv[ing]" Jackie, as essentially he told Kelso to do in "Baby Fever," he throws her, "Get off my boyfriend!" slip in her face constantly, holding his forgiveness hostage unless she (as implied) performs some kind of sex act for him.

Instead of confronting Jackie and Kelso in the moment when he finds them on Donna's couch, he acts on assumption and sleeps with someone else -- not to cheat but as a way of hurting Jackie and breaking up with her. The show itself even acknowledges that Hyde wouldn't be so impulsive by having Roy ask Hyde if he'd talked to Jackie about what he saw on Donna's couch, and Hyde says he's done with talking. That's how the show dismisses what Hyde would actually do. Hyde then says he'll be the bigger person and "bail" before Jackie does. And yet he isn't the bigger person. He doesn't go to her and say, "We're done." He has to lash out passive-aggressively and hurt her first before saying, We're done."

On the positive side, Hyde confesses the truth to Jackie almost immediately. But his apology is less of an apology and more of, "Come on, man. Be cool. It was a one-time mistake. Take me back so I don't have to suffer the hurt of losing you, so I don't have to have consequences for my actions."

He's way more concerned with his own feelings during that scene in the Camino than with hers. Understandably, he's afraid of losing her, but his love for her -- as written in these episodes -- is a selfish love, not an unconditional or self-sacrificing one. He should've owned up to his fear of abandonment and betrayal and worked on that. He should've focused on the pain he'd caused Jackie and why. Then, maybe, he would've been worthy of her forgiveness.

I do love J/H. I just think their romantic relationship in season 5 could've been written true to the character development that led to it happening. By wedging Kelso between them, the writers deprived us of seeing more organic development for Jackie and Hyde -- as a couple and individuals. We do get it in a quite a few season 5 episodes and a few season 6 episodes, but we could've gotten a lot more.

i love a good meta thread!!

i think i saw the exchange in that show as more of a jokey, throw-away line... like he wasn't really going to forget about the kelso thing if she performed said act anyway.

great points concerning their development as a couple and the lack of character-driven, organic storylines in the later seasons. i feel like this happens in a lot of shows, like the writers get lazy or something and the characters become charicatures of themselves and a really great show becomes a string of one liner type jokes or stunts...

love those early seasons though!!

I have a few thoughts on what Hyde could have been referring too, but anyway.....


I have to agree, I hate the cheating storyline. I understand if he was mad and upset, but I think realistically he would have gone and talked it out instead of running out and cheating.

:D

I agree that the writer's intention for that moment was probably to get a laugh. :nod: But anything a character says or does becomes part of her or his characterization, and that moment does not add anything good to Hyde. :no:

That's definitely true of T7S, especially season 6.

Yeah, seasons 1-5 (save a few eps) combined character development and humor very well.

Colleen, I hate the Hyde-sleeps-with-the-nurse storyline, too. The show could've created conflict between J/H so many different, better, and organic ways.

i'm watching the seasons out of order, but i'm in season 3 now, of which there's not much J/H,but stll some good groundwork.

question: in jackie bags hyde (punching chip when he calls her a bitch=the best!!), when jackie and hyde kiss at the end of their date, do you read hyde's pause when jackie asks if he felt anything as a yes? I feel like he totally did but didnt want to admit it because she said she didn't feel anything.

why do you think the writers seemed to totally retreat on J/H relationship for rest of season 3/4 and then treat it as an out of the blue plot point when they get together in the first episode of season 5?

I think Hyde absolutely felt something during his kiss with Jackie in "Jackie Bags Hyde". :nod: The writers were going for irony. Jackie pursues Hyde romantically for months, and Hyde's the one who ends up with unrequited romantic feelings. :rolleyes:

I honestly don't understand why Jackie and Hyde's connection/development together from "Prom Night" through "Jackie Bags Hyde" is never acknowledged in season 5. The writers could've mined so much humor and character development from them facing that -- and by having sharp eyes, recognizing the unintentional-yet-nevertheless-there subtext between J/H in season 4, and bridging the gap between "Jackie Bags Hyde" and "Going to California".

But T7S got new showrunners in S5 (the Filgos, who are responsible for J/H getting together romantically). I'd guess they were promoted during the production of season 4, and they requested Jackie and Kelso be broken up (or separated) by the end of it so they could develop J/H romantically.

why do you think the writers seemed to totally retreat on J/H relationship for rest of season 3/4 and then treat it as an out of the blue plot point when they get together in the first episode of season 5?

Probably because the showrunners of T7S at that time wanted to return to the "status quo," which was Jackie and Kelso in a relationship. But like I said in my previous post, I don't understand why J/H's S1-S3 relationship isn't acknowledged and built upon when they get together in season 5. It would make their relationship way more cohesive. I'd guess the writers / showrunners weren't thinking all that deeply about the show and just wanted to move forward instead creating more of a novelistic TV series.

Eric is also so much sweeter in the earlier seasons. I love J/H season 5, but the show in general seems to go downhill in the later seasons. didn't realize shows switched writers like that. makes for inconsistency!!

I am really thankful that they brought them together in season 5, even if they did ignore their previous relationship. I hope at least in private they acknowledged it.

Eric's sweetness varies throughout the seasons, I think. Depends on the episode and the scenario. But in season 6, he was not written that well. His attitude toward and treatment of Donna is quite a shift from his season-5 self.

The show definitely loses its sparkle after season 5 (by the end of it, really). :pout: Season 6 has some good episodes, as does season 7, but the characterization is so inconsistent.

I agree. My headcanon is that they talked about ALL THE THINGS in private.

My head cannon is that too Lisa, it's what makes sense.

:nod: We see it in "Magic Bus" and "Ramble On," among other episodes, so it's not hard to imagine them talking about lots of stuff in private.