MistyMountainHop

Yeah, in "Prom Night," Hyde is so uncomfortable dancing with Jackie: a) she's Jackie and b) she's his best friend's ex-girl. And Jackie was too miserable about being without Kelso that she couldn't enjoy being at the prom.

But "Prom Night" is the first time we get to see Hyde's kinder, gentler nature. That episode and "The Good Son" are the beginnings of his deeper (and true) characterization.

msstock87

I feel the same. I liked seeing that side of Hyde come out.

FuriosityShell

Hyde was so OOC in season one. Thank goodness they discovered his character because he was unlikable during the first half of the season.

MistyMountainHop

The show's creators admitted in interviews they didn't understand / know Hyde's character at the beginning. All they had for him was "conspiracy theorist". DM's audition helped get Hyde's basic personality down. Apparently, DM gave a line reading different than any of the other actors they'd seen for the role. In the T7S creators' words, he was "the funny angry guy" -- which, imo, is far too simplistic a characterization.

In S1, Hyde was mainly used as Eric's foil, to show how worthy of Donna Eric is compared to selfish Hyde. Fortunately, once that non-triangle triangle was over, Hyde was no longer a plot-device and his true character began to form.

FuriosityShell

I have the DVDs of the show and the bonus features have some cast interviews. And the actors/creators of the show aren't very insightful when it comes to talking about their characters. Maybe the editors of the DVDs don't use the best footage of the cast interviews or maybe it's because most of the cast interviews were taken from around the filming of S8, but I don't think the actors really analyzed their characters as much as the fans do.

MistyMountainHop

The DVD extras are severely lacking. We should've gotten deleted scenes and cast commentaries on episodes.

In an interview elsewhere, DM said how he and T7S's director, David Trainer, went over scripts and make sure Hyde's dialogue was true to Hyde -- and change anything that was too emotionally revealing. DM said that Hyde lashes out when he's angry (as we've seen many times) and that he wouldn't be direct in expressing his feelings -- which is one of Hyde's core characteristics. He likes to cover his true motives for things, as in "Eric's False Alarm" when he claims he "always wanted to commit a felony" by pulling the fire alarm, but he really did it on Eric's behalf.

FuriosityShell

Oh, now that I did not know. Hyde isn't my favorite character but he's certainly one of the most complex. I was grateful for season 5 because they were finally giving Hyde something to do. It seemed like in the second half of season 3 and in season 4 he just sat around burning everyone. Which was a real waste of his character, in my opinion, so I was happy when they started giving him plotlines again.

msstock87

I remember reading that too.

I remember watching the commentary in "Cat fight club" on my blu rays, David Trainer talking about how Jackie and Hyde were going to fall in love, and he seemed genuinely happy about that.

MistyMountainHop

And I think that's how he truly feels about the pairing. But he had to tow the company line in the later commentaries, the ones recorded during the S8 filming and try to hawk Jackie/Fez's relationship.

Furiosity, I agree that Hyde's character didn't get much character growth after "Jackie Bags Hyde" (308) and before S5, but we did get some good characterization from him during S4, "Hyde Gets the Girl (405 ), aside. We see his loyalty and love for Eric throughout the season, particularly in "Eric's Depression" (402), "Third Wheel" (411), "Eric's False Alarm (425). We also see his care for Donna in that season, particularly in "The Relapse" (406) and "Everybody Loves Casey" (426).

And we get a deeper insight into who he is during "Hyde's Birthday" (423). Red's words to him must've had a significant impact on who he is, even though it's never explicitly explored. It might've even allowed him to feel safe and secure enough to start a relationship with Jackie. So thank you, Red.

Speakng of Jackie, S4 also has a lot of subtle interaction between her and Hyde. It's nothing explicit -- and it likely wasn't intentional -- but it's there nonetheless and weaves in subtextually to Jackie and Hyde's relationship.

FuriosityShell

I thought I was the only one who felt weird about Hyde Gets the Girl (404). I don't dislike the episode, it's just off to me, but I don't know what it is. I like the Kelso subplot, but the Hyde plot just doesn't click to me.

Late S3 and S4 is weird when it comes to Jackie and Hyde. Besides a couple of barbs towards each other, it seems like they've finally reached civility. They really seem to be indifferent towards each other. But in Pinciotti vs. Forman (403), when Jackie burns Eric she gives Hyde a quick high-five. I'd like to think that while they didn't become close, they developed a friendship that wasn't really focused on. But their relationship did from Jackie Bags Hyde (308). They had no more romantic feelings for each other (at least not on the surface) but she still called him Steven and they weren't antagonistic towards each other like S1 and S2.

I also noticed that in early S3, Jackie's stalking of Hyde was very inconsistent. In episodes like Red Sees Red (302) and Roller Disco (305), she would have her usual pursuit of him. But in Too Old To Trick or Treat Too Young to Die (303) and Baby Fever (306), she seemed very indifferent towards him and showed no signs of attraction toward him, despite his passive protectiveness of her in the latter episode. And notice in Too Old To Trick or Treat, Too Young to Die, after Kelso burns Jackie by saying "I know someone bitchier than me", Hyde says "nice burn" which was kind of OOC for him at that point.

rishik5

You're totally not! I mentioned my thoughts on this episodee here before, it felt really weird and OOC.

MistyMountainHop

Hyde is entirely OOC in "Hyde Gets the Girl". It was about a girl "taming" and "civilizing" Hyde. But Hyde knows how to act on dates and toward women. We saw as much during "Jackie Bags Hyde". He gives Jackie his jacket when she's cold, gives her his soda, etc. He's polite and gentleman-like, and this is with Jackie, someone he still supposedly couldn't stand. The date was exploratory for him.

Anyway, I'm glad the writers decided not to pursue the storyline with Melissa. That would've been a disaster for his character.

As for "Baby Fever," Jackie wasn't gaga over Hyde during that ep, but she did trust him to help with the "divorce" between herself and Kelso. And Hyde was supportive of her and said, imo, one of his best characterizing lines to Kelso: "You could've been a man and forgiven her, but no. You had to do the math."

If only the writers had remembered Hyde saying this line. Maybe he would've behaved differently toward Jackie after the "Get off my boyfriend!" incident.

FuriosityShell

But Donna and the guys didn't necessarily know what Hyde was like when it came to romantics. Hyde had slept with a lot of women but he had never been in a relationship with any. I'd like to think that Jackie was the only person who really knew that Hyde was actually gentleman-ly in private, whereas the gang went off on their assumptions, which I think is why they labeled Jackie and Hyde's relationship as "creepy" and "unnatural" when in actuality their relationship made perfect sense. I think it made perfect sense for the gang to think that Hyde was uncivilized because he never showed his softer side to them.

My own personal head!canon for the show is that since Hyde only acts softer in front of Jackie, Kitty, and occasionally Donna because he doesn't want the gang to see his softer side, and Jackie knows this, so they play up their respective brutal and bitchy traits in front of everyone else. I use that to explain away some of the seeming OOC moments for Jackie and Hyde during seasons 6 and 7.

Regarding Baby Fever, I noticed this. I don't think it was OOC, but sort of inconsistent. In every other episode Jackie was all over him, but in that one she acts sort of indifferent. I think that episode would have perfectly fit in with all the post-Jackie Bags Hyde, as Jackie doesn't seem to be crazy about him anymore (at least not on the outside) but he's still subtly protecting her.

And I agree with you Lisa about Hyde's line "You could've been a man and forgiven her..." but I'd like to think that Hyde was simply saying to tease Kelso, only so I can stop saying "But that doesn't make sense!" every time I watch You Shook Me.

MistyMountainHop

Oh, I wasn't saying his friends thought he was that way. The writer of that episode portrayed him that way, which was in pretty sharp contrast to what we'd seen of him already -- especially during "Prom Night" and "Jackie Bags Hyde". During "Prom Night," he even gives Jackie a corsage. He pretty much does whatever he can to make the night as good as he can for her. So for him to be portrayed as romantically inept in "Hyde Gets the Girl" makes no character sense.

Me, too.

FuriosityShell

Ohhhh! My mistake, I understand what you meant now. In my defense, I haven't seen that episode in a while. Another reason S4 is a weak season for Hyde.