Tangerine1204

SERIOUSLY!!!!!!! Every time we got to see them make out, they would be interrupted by Donna or skanky biker chicks or cut to commercial!!!!!!

Wait - here's a thought. Maybe cuz the powers that be knew that a J/H makeout session was just too darn hot for tv...

MistyMountainHop

Maybe!

I also wish we'd gotten more than one J/H hug ("Babe, I"m Gonna Leave You"). But I love how he protects/pillows her head in the episode where she redecorates his room. It's so brief on camera, but another obsessive dedicated Zennie was able to screengrab it.

And I guess all the times she sat on his lap, he was kind of hugging her.



Oh! And in a post I made above -- the "Magic Bus" screengrabs. Yeah... ok. They hug their own way.

MistyMountainHop

Both times Hyde walked in on Jackie and Kelso (in situations that led to Hyde breaking up with Jackie twice), he was wearing a Rolling Stones shirt.

Coincidence?

If he couldn’t stop assuming the worst of Jackie, at least he could’ve learned to stop wearing Rolling Stones shirts.

Not that I have anything against the band. Not at all. Just Hyde wearing the shirt, considering what happened.

Tangerine1204

Oh, Lisa!!!!! Breaking my heart w/ the Kelso in a towel!!!!!

I can't hate the Stones, b/c it is through the lovely wonder of fanfiction (God, I'm OBSESSED!!!!!!!!) that I have like, my own J/H soundtrack.

Lisa. I can feel you judging me...!!!!

But I GUESS I get what you're saying. I mean, if it wasn't for the scene in "Wayne's World" that brought that song into my life and made me love it so, my poor zen heart would forever associate that song w/ the season opener of the season that shall not be named.

Even now, I sometimes hear those opening chords and I flashback to the ONE TIME WHERE KITTY SHOULD'VE NEVER ANSWERED THE FRICKIN DOOR!!!!!

Now I gotta go watch "Wayne's World.."

*Le Sigh*

MistyMountainHop

*doesn't judge you 'tall* I don't hate the Stones, either. Just pointing out the coincidence of the Stones shirts.

Which song are you talking about, Meli? And what's your J/H soundtrack?

And speaking of obsessed, I've made over 850 T7S comics and written (so far) over 1000 pages of T7S fanfic. So I definitely can't judge you there.

ana_cmoraes

I have never noticed that Stones shirt thing! OMG!!
But I still love those shirts... they are in my favorite Hyde's shirt!! I have a black one that is allmost the same as Hyde's! =)

And I think Meli is talking about Bohemian Rhapsody from Queen. One of my favorites Queen song!!! I hate the fact that the name of the episodes on the season that never was were the name of songs of one of my favorite bands ever!!!!

I SO HATE THAT!!!!

Tangerine1204

Well, in one of my FAVORITE stories ("November Rain" - it's where my name comes from, as long as my berfday, lol), Hyde puts on the Stones' "Wild Horses" the first time he & Jackie "go all the way." And then, in ANOTHER fic, ("Season 8 Redo"), in one of the "episodes," the disco in Kenosha closes, and Hyde and Jackie dance to their song "Miss You." That song also plays a part in the one of YOUR favorite fics, Lisa, "Filling the Gaps."

As for my own soundtrack, OBVIOUSLY, Led Zeppelin plays a HUGE role. In my mind, as I picture the movie montage of their relationship in the beginning, "I Can't Quit You" is a song that plays frequently. "Tiny Dancer" is there, as well as The Eagles "I Can't Tell You Why." Clapton's in there, b/c I read a fic once where they had a scene in which Hyde and Jackie were slow dancing to "Wonderful Tonight" in his room (I think) and that scene is just entrenched in my mind. Also, "Layla" has to be in there, as well as The Beatles - for some weird reason, I keep picturing Hyde and Jackie just driving in the El Camino, w/ the song "Revolution" playing on the radio, and Hyde being impressed that Jackie knows all the words w/ her saying something silly like she likes them b/c she thinks that McCartney is cute.

I possibly have too much time on my hands.

I also picture Hyde in Jackie's room, them just hanging out on her bed, and the Fleetwood Mac's song "Dreams" playing in the background.

Again, I have too much time on my hands...

I KNOW you have a J/H soundtrack. What's on yours?

msstock87

I never noticed that about the stones shirts either!

I just finished reading November Rain last night and I loved it, especially the ending.

MistyMountainHop

ana, do you feel like Hyde when you where your Stones shirt? I like the black one. The yellow is just... yellow.

That's what I was thinking, but Meli hadn't said Queen. Seemed she was still talking about the Stones, but I think she must have meant Queen -- right, Meli?

Meli, wow, you really do love your J/H fanfic! I think that's cool. If it weren't for Filling in the Gaps, there wouldn't be any T7S comics, so I understand.

I bought the Stones "Miss You" because of the same scene in Season 8 Redo.

msstock, the ending of November Rain is really nice. The last line is a killer.

Grazzhopper

Bravo, Lisa! I always love to get an insight into your writing music.

Tangerine1204

That's exactly the song I meant! Sorry - it was late, and the memories of that episode from the season that shall not be named...it sometimes still haunts me, you understand...

But, for me - the show was as much about the music as the characters. This is why it bums me out when I watch the show on Netflix and the original songs aired aren't played. I always feel as if something important is missing.

And yes - I'm a sick, sick sick lover of J/H fanfiction. I mean, there are times, when I sit at my computer, and I look around at all the things I should be doing - you know, chores & all that adult stuff that those silly grown-ups insist we do...and I think, "Eh. I think I'd rather read some more J/H instead."

It's so much more entertaining than making sure my red underroos don't go in w/ my white t-shirt...

msstock, I almost cried when I read that line. CRIED!!!!! That fic put me through the emotional wringer, and I relished every bit of it.

msstock87

Tangerine I am addicted to J/H fanfic too. I find myself reading it when I should be productive. ( I currently have a tab open for it right on my computer lol)

The last line of November Rain I almost cried as well. That fic kept me on the edge of my seat so to speak the entire time.

Tangerine1204

And, Lisa, I'm so sorry - but I forgot to give you a ghetto fabulous big up for introducing to some new music... Well, they're old (or should I say classic????) but they are new to me...

It's funny - the more I read *impatiently waiting for Lisa's new fic* or write my own J/H fanfiction, I find myself listening to these songs and they really do provide such a great backdrop for emotions that the characters are feeling. No lie, I was listening to The Beatles' "Day Tripper" and all I could think was, "Jackie would love this song!!!!"

msstock, I thank you for making me feel better about my fanfic addiction. It's nice to know that I'm not the only one in this club. Should I bring cookies to our next meeting?

MistyMountainHop

Aww, thank you, Lulu!

Classic, yes. *lol* Thanks, Meli. =D Music is so great for writing. I rarely write without it.

So I've been thinking about -- despite season 7's character regression of Jackie and Hyde's OOC-ness -- how committed Hyde really was to Jackie during season 5 and 6. Season 7 would have us believe Hyde with Jackie "just 'cause" and didn't know if he really wanted Jackie to be his future, but we got a lot of proof during season 5 (and season 6) that Hyde was in the relationship for the long haul.

I now present an essay with pictures...

STEVEN HYDE: COMMITTED TO JACKIE BURKHART, THOUGH IT SOMETIMES MAKES HIM THINK HE SHOULD BE COMMITTED TO THE NUTHOUSE

As we've been shown in seasons 1-4, Hyde didn't like people to know how much he cared about them, but he always showed that he cared. His actions always spoke louder than his words. For example, in season 4 (episode "Eric's False Alarm"), Hyde pulls the fire alarm in the Le Motel all night on Eric's behalf so Donna wouldn't sleep with Casey Kelso. When Eric tells Hyde he knows what Hyde did for him, Hyde deflects, saying he always wanted to commit a felony. Eric, however, also knows his friend too well and counters with, "All I hear is 'I love you, I love you, I love you.'" And he's not wrong.

In early season 5, he kept claiming Jackie wasn't his girlfriend. Jackie claimed the same thing. But when Eric and Donna pushed them to break whatever they had off, Hyde was adamant that he and Jackie "do whatever [they] want" and stay together. Then, after Eric and Donna call their relationship "creepy and unnatural," Hyde says to Jackie he wouldn't be in the relationship if it weren't a little bit creepy and unnatural.

Now, if Hyde wasn't already thinking of Jackie as his girlfriend somewhere, he wouldn't have used the word "relationship" at all. Jackie had asked him specifically he if thought they were a creepy and unnatural couple. He didn't balk at the would "couple," either. If he weren't already committed to her in some way, he would've said, "What we've got isn't a relationship, and we're not a couple, man. But we are creepy and unnatural."

He also told Eric around that time that he planned on being with Jackie "for a while". Jackie, of all girls. He had the pressure of dating one of his best friend's ex-girlfriends. He had the pressure of two of his other two best friends telling him to break it off. Hyde could'v chosen any other girl to be with -- without all the baggage, which means Jackie must've been really important to him to keep on dating her.



Then, as Jackie and Hyde's relationship progressed, Hyde outright calls Jackie his girlfriend -- to Jackie in private. But a man who wasn't interested in some kind of commitment wouldn't have ever used that term.



Shortly afterward, Hyde turns down a sure thing with a sexy college student. He proves his monogamy to Jackie. In spite of himself, his heart is beginning to belong to one girl, and it's a surprise to him. Not only that, he's nervous that his own flip responses to Jackie beforehand (when she wanted reassurance of his fidelity) might have driven her to fool around with someone else. He now wanted her to reassure him. Remaining monogamous and wanting his woman to be monogamous shows Hyde's investment in the relationship.

In "Thank You," Hyde clearly enjoys spending time with Jackie. On the Formans' staircase, away from everyone else, they sit together, talking and laughing. At the "child's" table during the Thanksgiving dinner, Hyde gives Jackie a quick kiss before they eat. This is not the behavior of someone who's indifferent to the girl he's with.



In "Black Dog," Kelso claims Jackie will run to him for comfort. Hyde doesn't like this and frogs him. Later, when Kelso expresses his dismay at Jackie and Hyde's relationship, Hyde shows his anger, which -- at this point in Hyde's characterization -- is rare.He shouts at Kelso that Jackie's his girlfriend and that Kelso needs to get over it.

More than this, though, Hyde is clearly upset he doesn't know how to comfort Jackie. He sits around in the kitchen, looking bummed. He talks to Kitty about it. He keeps trying to comfort Jackie with words, regardless of failing. Then he makes a small sacrifice and shaves his beard, putting Jackie's needs above his. Why? Because he "though it would cheer [her] up."

This episode, to me, shows the transition from Hyde simply caring about Jackie to him being in love with her. He could've just shrugged his shoulders after his initial insensitivity to her feelings. Instead, he felt guilty and tried to fix it. Not because of his ego. Because he hurt someone very important to him, someone who was already hurting.

The act of him shaving his beard was him saying, "I love you" to her, The first time his actions said this. As discussed earlier in this essay, Hyde wasn't one to say those words. But he clearly showed he felt the meaning behind them. And Hyde doesn't deny this when Jackie claims as much. He simply gives her the smile of a man who's in love.



In "The Crunge," Jackie talks about her future with Hyde. She's clearly committed to him now for the long haul. She imagines herself married to him (somewhere down the line). Admittedly, Hyde hasn't come to this place yet. He doesn't say that's not going to happen, but he doesn't say it will happen, either. He says, "If we even have a future..." which shows he's not thinking about the long-term... yet.

In "The Girl I Love," Jackie tries to make Hyde go to Mrs. Forman's couples' party. He refuses, so she takes Kelso instead. Hyde shows up at the party to mark his territory (i.e. Jackie). Jackie's clearly important to him, and he makes it clear later in the episode had she asked him to go instead of assuming he would and demanding, he may have done it. In fact, he agrees to go to an event with her (i.e. The Girl Scout Alumni Pancake Breakfast) he knows he'll hate -- but he cares about Jackie enough to go. Ultimately, he wanted to show that her wanting him to do things with (or for) her wasn't the problem. It was how she tried to get him to do those things with her. She needed to respect him, and -- in turn -- he respected her.



In "Babe, I'm Gonna Leave You," Hyde breaks up with Jackie for calling Kelso her boyfriend. Hyde is very upset, and despite his claim of being "over" her, it's clear he's hurting. A man who had no interest in a long-term commitment would've shrugged off the relationship as if it had been nothing. But Hyde sits on the couch, brooding. When Jackie explains how Hyde's the one one she wants to fight for, Hyde yells at her, voice cut through with both acid and pain: "Oh, boy! You like Kelso, but you like me a little bit more? What a bunch of crap! You know I think, Jackie? I think the only reason you were with me in the first place was to get back at Kelso."

This is a man who's heart is breaking, not a man who was in a meaningless fling. He's been betrayed and abandoned by both his parents. Now he fears the first girl he's fallen in love with is doing the same thing to him. And then Jackie tells him she loves him.

It's the first time she says this to him, and it shocks him. His first response is a defensive one, that he won't say it back. Why? Because he's already been wounded by Jackie's "Get off my boyfriend!" slip about Kelso, and he doesn't trust Jackie's motives until she says, "I don't care [if you say it back]."

For Hyde, Jackie's just given him something major without expecting anything back. She put her heart on the line -- for him, and he recognized that. She earned (a measure) of his trust back, and he reconciled with her. And the way he holds her afterward, the look on his face -- this is a man who'd been fighting an internal battle, one who'd almost lost the woman he loves.

Trust does not come easily to Hyde, but he loves Jackie enough to take the risk of being hurt. A person who has no interest in a long-term relationship doesn't do that sort of thing. He cuts his losses and runs off.





In "Whole Lotta Love," Hyde gives Jackie his favorite Zeppelin shirt for her birthday because she's "with [him] now". This is the equivalent of him giving her a promise ring, something he'd never do. He'd never have given a girl his favorite Zeppelin shirt if he intended to eventually breakup with her. That would mean he'd just thrown away his favorite shirt. Therefore, Hyde's giving Jackie his shirt is his way of saying to her, "I'm committed to you."



In "Bring It On Home," not only does Hyde care enough about Jackie to insist she stay with him now that her house is devoid of guardians, but he keeps his cot as a safe place to sleep. Whenever Kelso slept over in Jackie's bed, he pawed and whined at her for sex until she "just gave in" to make him shut up. For the "few weeks" that Jackie spent with Hyde, he just held her while they slept.

This was something Jackie had wanted from her boyfriend, as she'd told Donna years earlier. Hyde gave it to her. He also offers to get her a room at the hotel he works at, would probably pay for it himself and stay there with her. And he advocates on her behalf for Donna to do what she has to convince Jackie to stay at Donna's house. Again, these are not the actions of a man who's indifferent toward his girlfriend. These are the actions of a man very much in love.



In "You Shook Me," Hyde believes his trust is broken again. He mistakenly interprets Jackie's comfort as Kelso as something more. He slams things around the kitchen at the Holiday Hotel, tells Roy, "I’m done talkin’! I’m just glad I saw them. Now I can be the bigger person and bail before she does."

Jackie "bailing" on the relationship wouldn't have been a problem if he didn't see any future prospects for them. He'd walk away, no problem, because it was a short-term relationship anyway. But at this point, he was thinking in the long-term, even if he never spoke about it. His distress and words in this episode betray his true feelings.

In "Nobody's Fault but Mine," Hyde is practically crying when he confesses to Jackie he slept with the nurse. For him, the act wasn't cheating on her. It was breaking up with her, Unlike Kelso, he didn't do it out of lust but out of anger and a desperate need to separate himself from Jackie for good. Jackie, of course, feels betrayed.

If Hyde hadn't been committed to Jackie in his heart, this breakup would've been something to shrug off. But he listens morosely to sad country music -- country music being something he'd never listened to before. He's absolutely miserable and feeling helpless until Kelso threatens to get Jackie back. Hyde then takes a risk, goes to Jackie, and says very gently that he loves her.

Hyde has shown this to her with his actions before but never expressed it with words. For him to say this out loud to her is a huge risk for him. She rejects him anyway, and he gives up...





In "Immigrant Song," Jackie proves to Hyde that she still cares about him. She's afraid he'd been seriously hurt by falling off the water tower and rushes over to the hospital. When Hyde realizes he "still has a shot with [her]," he can't stop giving her "love eyeballs". He stares at her as a man in love would, even after she kicks his shin, even while Kelso blathers on about brotherhood and what-not. Hyde becomes determined to fight for her.

Kelso gets upset by this, and Hyde says, "Look Kelso, I never felt this way about a girl before, okay? And that pretty much beats our third grade pact. And I'm sorry, but I want to be with her."

Hyde basically admits here that he's in love with Jackie. His love-dazed staring at the hospital showed it. His words to Kelso practically state it. If he weren't committed to being with Jackie in the long-term, he wouldn't fight for her. He would've completely given up. He clearly sees a future with her even if he won't fully admit it out loud. His actions speak volumes.





Once Jackie and Hyde are back together in season 6, we learn in "Magic Bus" that Hyde has a pet name for her. Again, not the act of someone who's indifferent to the relationship he's in. He also admits that he missed Jackie calling him her pet name for her. He continues to look at her in that love-daze, as a man in love would.



In "Acid Queen," Jackie asks Kitty how she's supposed to know Hyde loves her if he won't obey her. Kitty gives her some advice, showing that men will show their love by giving up, for example, drinking a freshly-opened beer to fetch their women a Woman's Home Journal. Jackie follows this advice, and Hyde gives up his ice cream to get Jackie a Vogue Magazine.

The subtext here is that Hyde's showing he loves Jackie by making that small but significant sacrifice, and this episode also aligns Jackie and Hyde's relationship firmly with Red and Kitty's, a couple that's been married for over 20 years.







In "I'm a Boy," during the circle, Hyde and Jackie have a very revealing moment. Hyde says, "When you're truly, deeply happy, that's a sure sign you're doing everything wrong."

Jackie replies, "It's true. 'Cause when Steven's miserable, I know our relationship's in good shape."

Hyde says, "Then we've been tip-top since the day we met."

Jackie smiles at him, genuinely touched, and Hyde presses his cheek to her forehead with the deepest, happiest grin we may have ever seen from him on the show.

Hyde's words are clearly expressing the opposite of their surface meaning. He's basically admitting that he's "truly, deeply happy" with Jackie. His body language and the playful way he says his words show this fact -- as well as Jackie's reaction to him.



Finally, in "Do You Think It's Alright?" the question of Hyde's long-term commitment to Jackie is almost directly addressed and settled. Jackie keeps playfully pestering Hyde about their eventual wedding because Eric and Donna's is approaching. Hyde keeps telling her he and Jackie aren't getting married. He also makes her promise not to talk about weddings or marriage in or around the United States. This would make it seem he's not seriously committed to her for the long-term.

However, when he finds Jackie wearing a wedding dress, he doesn't yell at her as she both expects and gives him permission to. He stares at her in that in-love daze, approaches her, and blurts, "You're beautiful."

He continues to stare at her in love-awe until Jackie realizes the significance of his actions. She says, "Oh, my God. You like me in a wedding dress, which means that -- someday -- we're gonna get married."

Then she goes on and on about what she wants at their wedding, which prompts him to pick her up and leave her in the dressing room, but his annoyance does not negate the truth his body language and words expressed. This episode puts to rest the question as to whether or not Hyde's fully, long-term committed to Jackie -- for both Jackie and us.





As we've seen throughout season 5 and season 6, he is monogamous, emotionally invested in the relationship, and "deeply, truly happy" with Jackie. Several of season 7's episodes come into direct conflict with what was consistently established for these characters in the two years' prior, but they cannot undo the facts. To view those few season 7 episodes as representative of Jackie and Hyde's relationship both dismisses two entire seasons of canon but it does a disservice to both the characters and the fans who came to love them through all the moments the show gave us beforehand. Those season 7 episodes stand as non-canon anomalies in a relationship that is full of love, growth, sacrifice, and commitment.

Tangerine1204

Yeah... I'm that awed.

Let me first begin by saying that I freaking agree w/ everything you said!!!!!! It has always been my contention that Hyde was in it w/ Jackie for the long haul. Why the hell would he go against almost everyone by staying w/ her, when his best friends tell him to break it off w/ her? It could be said that he does it b/c he hates doing what other people tell him to do, and maybe even that played a part in it. But I think that - while I think that there's probably a part of Hyde that feels guilty (a very small part, mind you), I think that at that point, there's no way that he's willing to let her go. I truly believe that he showed so much by not giving in to his friends and staying with her. I even remember watching it and thinking how much he's willing to risk by being w/ her - which to me shows how much he feels for her.

As regards to Jackie, it has always pissed me to no end that there was almost barely any mention of how much Kelso played her and made her cry. This is why my dislike of Donna's character grew - I liked her a bit the first four seasons, but it was in this season that I just grew to dislike her intensely. B/c, as Jackie's best friend, I feel that she should be one of the first to be supportive, as Kelso was possibly the worst boyfriend in the history of boyfriends. While I understand that Donna & Kelso have known each other longer, Jackie has been there for Donna a lot more times than Kelso has. In friendships, it's not necessarily the length of the friendship, but the quality of said friendship that matters. I believe that Jackie has proved above and beyond how much she cares for Donna, and for Donna to be so incredibly self-righteous during those first episodes in the 5th season, just completely pisses me off.

I won't even get into how much Big Red pisses me off in "Bring It on Home".....

Ugh!!!!!

Wow...this was kinda long...