[stlavin95]

Originally Posted by wisherwasher (View Post) He has the advantage of being right when most of the time shipping is just a matter of opinion. I think the show jumped the shark at the end of S7 with the "cliffhanger", though.

He sure did

Big time, definitely was officially for me at that point

[JSB]

Originally Posted by wisherwasher (View Post) I saw a post recently somewhere, tumblr or reddit, that tore it down pretty well. There is no rational way you could believe anything had happened or was about to happen there. Jackie was fully dressed and casually tells someone she doesn't know to just come in. If if it would have been in character ite wouldn't have made sense. It was a terrible rehash of the of the S5 storyline only we the audience weren't clued into it like S5. The absurdity of it is what took the show over the edge for me. It was just too manufactured and stupid that even if S8 dealt with it*, it would have been the point of no return as far as the writers throwing anything out there for instant drama. *I haven't watched S8 since it aired, but I think even they made so nothing happened.

I got the impression that they were actually going to go through with it (played off as Jackie being lonely having sad/grief sex with Kelso) had Hyde not walked in. So they didn't actually have sex but were about to, hence Jackie's clothes and wanting to get Hyde away from the room/motel.

I SO wish we got a continuation scene after this cliffhanger rather than a time jump skipping the immediate aftermath. One of many things I hate the S8 writers for.

[wisherwasher]

Originally Posted by JSB (View Post) I got the impression that they were actually going to go through with it (played off as Jackie being lonely having sad/grief sex with Kelso) had Hyde not walked in. So they didn't actually have sex but were about to, hence Jackie's clothes and wanting to get Hyde away from the room/motel. I SO wish we got a continuation scene after this cliffhanger rather than a time jump skipping the immediate aftermath. One of many things I hate the S8 writers for.

If they were about to she wouldn't be fully dressed and reading a magazine, telling some random stranger to come in while Kelso is already butt naked and getting ice for some reason.

I think we are in the same boat as Hyde, walking in on something yet to be explained.

Either way, for me, it was the tipping point. Even if S8 hasn't been a horror show of bad characterization and crappy plot, there isn't anything that could put the show back into the 'must watch' category vs 'well, i might as well finish it'.

[stlavin95]

Originally Posted by JSB (View Post) I got the impression that they were actually going to go through with it (played off as Jackie being lonely having sad/grief sex with Kelso) had Hyde not walked in. So they didn't actually have sex but were about to, hence Jackie's clothes and wanting to get Hyde away from the room/motel. I SO wish we got a continuation scene after this cliffhanger rather than a time jump skipping the immediate aftermath. One of many things I hate the S8 writers for.

We seriously needed an continuation scene after that

[MistyMountainHop]

Originally Posted by JSB (View Post) I got the impression that they were actually going to go through with it (played off as Jackie being lonely having sad/grief sex with Kelso) had Hyde not walked in. So they didn't actually have sex but were about to, hence Jackie's clothes and wanting to get Hyde away from the room/motel.

This is ultimately my understanding of the scene, too. Jackie is dressed in a cleavage-bearing nightgown. When Hyde arrives, Jackie tugs on the collar as if trying to conceal her cleavage -- and what she had planned to do with Kelso. She's so obviously nervous about Hyde being there and tries to get him out of the room before Kelso comes back.

She thought she and Hyde were done. Kelso probably offered to console her sexually, and she said, "What the hell? Make sure no one can see us, though. This is a seedy neighborhood, and the last thing I need is some perv watching us. I had enough of that in Point Place with Fez."

Hyde's appearance at her motel room takes her by complete surprise. If they'd actually gotten the chance to talk (outside the room), and Hyde had either proposed or at least told her he loves her and is committed to her, Jackie would have absolutely changed her mind about sleeping with Kelso.

The question is, would she admit what she had thought of doing and why? If she did, the show's S7 version of Hyde probably wouldn't understand at all. My version of him, however, totally would have. He would've learned from his mistakes in season 5, and he would really hear Jackie when she says, "I thought I lost you forever, and I just wanted to forget the pain for at least a little while, and Michael offered to help, and the fact I was willing to do it with him should tell you how miserable and desperate I was. Because he is really bad in bed, and I don't love him. I love you. Only you."

Hyde: "Guess I got here just in time, huh?"

Jackie: "Michael and I probably would've been done had you arrived five minutes later. God, it would've been the second worst three minutes of my life."

Hyde: "It's all right, Jackie. I slept with that nurse when I thought I freakin' lost you. Only that was somethin' I assumed. I actually told you we were done, so ... even if you had slept with him, I think I could get over it. Just like you forgave me for what I did."

Jackie: "Oh, Steven ..."

They kiss then go to the motel room. Kelso's there, lying naked on the bed, waiting for Jackie to return. He figured she didn't trust him to do a good enough job checking the view from the parking lot and checked herself. But she and Hyde kick him out to reconcile privately ... and Kelso is stuck outside, naked.

[stlavin95]

I would have really loved for that to happen for obvious reasons

[wisherwasher]

Originally Posted by MistyMountainHop (View Post) This is ultimately my understanding of the scene, too. Jackie is dressed in a cleavage-bearing nightgown. When Hyde arrives, Jackie tugs on the collar as if trying to conceal her cleavage -- and what she had planned to do with Kelso. She's so obviously nervous about Hyde being there and tries to get him out of the room before Kelso comes back. She thought she and Hyde were done. Kelso probably offered to console her sexually, and she said, "What the hell? Make sure no one can see us, though. This is a seedy neighborhood, and the last thing I need is some perv watching us. I had enough of that in Point Place with Fez." Hyde's appearance at her motel room takes her by complete surprise. If they'd actually gotten the chance to talk (outside the room), and Hyde had either proposed or at least told her he loves her and is committed to her, Jackie would have absolutely changed her mind about sleeping with Kelso. The question is, would she admit what she had thought of doing and why? If she did, the show's S7 version of Hyde probably wouldn't understand at all. My version of him, however, totally would have. He would've learned from his mistakes in season 5, and he would really hear Jackie when she says, "I thought I lost you forever, and I just wanted to forget the pain for at least a little while, and Michael offered to help, and the fact I was willing to do it with him should tell you how miserable and desperate I was. Because he is really bad in bed, and I don't love him. I love you. Only you." Hyde: "Guess I got here just in time, huh?" Jackie: "Michael and I probably would've been done had you arrived five minutes later. God, it would've been the second worst three minutes of my life." Hyde: "It's all right, Jackie. I slept with that nurse when I thought I freakin' lost you. Only that was somethin' I assumed. I actually told you we were done, so ... even if you had slept with him, I think I could get over it. Just like you forgave me for what I did." Jackie: "Oh, Steven ..." They kiss then go to the motel room. Kelso's there, lying naked on the bed, waiting for Jackie to return. He figured she didn't trust him to do a good enough job checking the view from the parking lot and checked herself. But she and Hyde kick him out to reconcile privately ... and Kelso is stuck outside, naked.

I think they'd have probably stretched it out to an entire season. Or at the very least another 1 act arc with Jackie trying to get Hyde back.

I suppose the S8 writers completely ignored that scene or how they go from staring at each other to him flying off to Vegas because they had no intention of dealing with it.

[stlavin95]

Honestly both fit well with the S8 showrunners

[MistyMountainHop]

Originally Posted by stlavin95 (View Post) I would have really loved for that to happen for obvious reasons

It's so easy to write an in-character reconciliation between J/H -- depending on what one considers their canon characterizations.

wisherwasher, the out-going showrunners in S7 (the Filgos) had clearly tried to give whoever the show hired as S8 showrunners a ready-made arc for the first three or four episodes of S8: reconcile Jackie and Hyde. But since the S8 hated J/H's relationship and didn't understand it, they destroyed the relationship instead. The Filgos had faith that whoever was hired would understand and respect both J/H's relationship and its fanbase.

That was a big mistake in hindsight. J/H's part of the finale shouldn't have been rewritten. Let them get engaged, and then maybe the people hired as S8 showrunners might've thought twice about taking the job since they would've had to write J/H's relationship instead of breaking them up.

If proper showunners had been hired, they could've totally explored how an engaged J/H's relationship differs from long-time couple Red and Kitty's relationship -- and the similarities. There was so much material to mine there. Lots of connections between Red and Hyde, Kitty and Jackie, Kitty and Hyde, and even Red and Jackie. Bring back Jackie's mechanical interest and skills, and let her and Red bond over that.

[wisherwasher]

Originally Posted by MistyMountainHop (View Post) It's so easy to write an in-character reconciliation between J/H -- depending on what one considers their canon characterizations. wisherwasher, the out-going showrunners in S7 (the Filgos) had clearly tried to give whoever the show hired as S8 showrunners a ready-made arc for the first three or four episodes of S8: reconcile Jackie and Hyde. But since the S8 hated J/H's relationship and didn't understand it, they destroyed the relationship instead. The Filgos had faith that whoever was hired would understand and respect both J/H's relationship and its fanbase. That was a big mistake in hindsight. J/H's part of the finale shouldn't have been rewritten. Let them get engaged, and then maybe the people hired as S8 showrunners might've thought twice about taking the job since they would've had to write J/H's relationship instead of breaking them up. If proper showunners had been hired, they could've totally explored how an engaged J/H's relationship differs from long-time couple Red and Kitty's relationship -- and the similarities. There was so much material to mine there. Lots of connections between Red and Hyde, Kitty and Jackie, Kitty and Hyde, and even Red and Jackie. Bring back Jackie's mechanical interest and skills, and let her and Red bond over that.

That's what I'm saying. If the writers had no intention of getting J/H back together, there isn't any need for them to pick up on that scene where it left off. No need to get into what they talked about, if anything at all.

I definitely agree they should have left the J/H arc as they planned. I wonder if anyone will ever interview the Filgos and ask if they regret doing them dirty like that. At the end of the day, however crappy the S8 runners were, the epic fails at the end of S7 are on the Filgos.

[JSB]

I bet the S8 showrunners would have broken up Hyde/Jackie regardless of their S7 finale. Even if they ended up engaged, they would have come up with a BS reason to split them ASAP. It was clear to me they did not care about anything before them and just wanted to do whatever they wanted without any regard for characterization or development. Their hatred for the couple spoke volumes.

[wisherwasher]

Of course they would have. As MMT said, they hated the couple. But the Filgos could have at least made them work for it.

[JSB]

Yeah and at least we would have gotten a proposal <3

Always wondered how that would play out. Hyde never seemed like the "on one knee" kind of guy but he did make romantic gestures for Jackie. We need to see the original script lol

[wisherwasher]

I think, once another season was on the table, they could have just had them move into together. Sort of split the difference. Jackie didn't want a ring right away, she only wanted a maybe some day. So Hyde says, "I don't know if I'm read for that quite yet, but let's try getting an apartment and living together."


It would have opened up a lot of story space both for them and Red and Kitty.

[stlavin95]

Originally Posted by MistyMountainHop (View Post) It's so easy to write an in-character reconciliation between J/H -- depending on what one considers their canon characterizations. wisherwasher, the out-going showrunners in S7 (the Filgos) had clearly tried to give whoever the show hired as S8 showrunners a ready-made arc for the first three or four episodes of S8: reconcile Jackie and Hyde. But since the S8 hated J/H's relationship and didn't understand it, they destroyed the relationship instead. The Filgos had faith that whoever was hired would understand and respect both J/H's relationship and its fanbase. That was a big mistake in hindsight. J/H's part of the finale shouldn't have been rewritten. Let them get engaged, and then maybe the people hired as S8 showrunners might've thought twice about taking the job since they would've had to write J/H's relationship instead of breaking them up. If proper showunners had been hired, they could've totally explored how an engaged J/H's relationship differs from long-time couple Red and Kitty's relationship -- and the similarities. There was so much material to mine there. Lots of connections between Red and Hyde, Kitty and Jackie, Kitty and Hyde, and even Red and Jackie. Bring back Jackie's mechanical interest and skills, and let her and Red bond over that.

It is for you, not so much for the S8 showrunners