BlackWhiteRose

yulan

I guess that pic was supposed to go to Tiffani's thread It's nice.

I laugh at Val's S5 line I posted. I guess it was when she wanted to take notes from Kelly, but K did not let her do it. Was it for Finley's class?

heyitsrachel

Great pic!

No, the caps were from 5x16 - Sentenced to Life. Val and Kelly had a class together. Val ditched almost the entire semester and wanted to borrow Kelly's notes for an exam. Kelly says no because it wouldn't be fair for her since she attended every class.

I saw this as another stepping stone in them being even bigger enemies.

yulan

thanks! Kelly was so stuck up there, oh my. I wonder how she passed junior year's exams without borrowing anyone's notes from classes she missed when she was on cocaine. But it must have been different for her, of course. Val's going through crisis after her father's death is to be taken less seriously than anything Kelly experienced.

I do not particularly like Val, but quite often I just have to cheer for her against Kelly

heyitsrachel

I do get where Kelly is coming from. She's got her reasons. 1. She hates Val. 2. She doesn't feel right for sharing her notes when she had to attend all the classes and did all the notes.

For the record, Val did pass. Also, Kelly overslept on the day of the exam. Val called her to wake her up. And then after Kelly thanked her, Val said "Hey, you would've done the same for me, right?" Eh, I doubt that Kelly would've called you, Val.

Lesask

I don’t agree. You are in college, not high school. You don’t get a free pass for not attending classes. Besides, Valerie wasn’t Kelly’s friend, so I don’t see why also she had to lend her her notes. The fact that you mention Kelly’s addictions as if they meant nothing is not very empathetic. Both Kelly and Valerie had a troubled upbringing, but Valerie was just a mean, nasty person. Life problems aren’t an excuse to be like that to other people. My opinion anyways.

Agree.

yulan

Val was not simply mean, nasty person. She had more troubles than Kelly in that period, they were just not acknowledged and overemphasized as Kelly's. What were Val's problems in that period? Her father's death. What were Kelly's problems in that period? She was... too pretty. Kelly's got to be a branded victim of the show, and her troubles and problems were used as means to justify when she was mean and nasty. She was troubled, but also very privileged.

I forgot about that. Fantastic.

I always gave my notes to the other people. Never thought it was a big deal.

Lesask

Nop sorry, I don’t agree. I know that Valerie had her own share of problems but that’s no excuse to act the way she acted. It doesn’t matter whether Valerie was having more problems than Kelly at the time or not. They both had ordeals that they went through, the timing is not relevant. The fact that you say that Kelly’s problems were that she was too pretty means that you didn’t watch the show or you just forgot. An Absent father, a mother with addictions and bringing different guys every day, an eating disorder, survived a fire and was left with scars... Whereas you just keep bringing Valerie’s father. Everyone who watched the show saw the things that Valerie did and said. I know that you are her fan and that’s fine, but like I said, she was the one inherently mean and nasty, not Kelly. If Kelly was ever mean to her it’s because she deserved it. And priviledged and snobby? Yeah, she was but in earlier seasons just like Steve was too. That was their upbringing, what did you expect?

yulan

Timing is relevant, because we were discussing a specific period - mid-season 5, when the scene I posted took place.

I mentioned, and emphasized very clearly, problems they had in that specific period. Problems one had since childhood, like those you listed for Kelly, cannot be an eternal excuse for everything forever. And they were used that way for Kelly.

As a matter of fact, I am not, I just see her as less privileged than Kelly, so I tend to often cheer for her against Kelly.

See, I do not think she was inherently mean and nasty. It is hard to say what is inherent in any person, and what is a product of upbringing etc. I do not use such qualifications (like inherent) at all. i do not think any of the characters were supposed to be inherently mean and nasty.

Sometimes yes, sometimes not. Certainly not in the beginning.

I'd expect her to be less self-righteous based on privilege and less snobby by S5, because she was supposed to be reformed, but she was not really. Her snobbery only changed to include intellectual pretensions.

Lesask

Yet you mentioned Kelly’s cocaine problems when they didn’t happen in that season that you are referring.

You don’t know how psychology works do you? A person with problems experienced since childhood who don’t go to therapy or receive any other kind of help in order to overcome them, are simply dragged throughout adulthood.

I think it’s clear who was and was not priviledged on the show. If you lean more towards Valerie because she was less priviledged as you mention, that’s your prerrogative, but also a prejudice against “snobby and priviledged” as you keep mentioning it.

That’s subjective.

The beginning of what? Season 5? That’s called having intuition. Kelly wasn’t wrong about Valerie. And if you think that it was ok for her to lie to Cindy and Jim, smoke a joint at their house, hook up with Dylan and Steve at the same time are not reasons enough not to like her or trust her, well...

All the characters were still going through pshysical and emotional maturity. I don’t know what exactly you were expecting. Why was she supposed to be reformed? According to whom? You? But again, you keep mentioning the words snobby, priviledge. You clearly have an issue with that.

Anyways, you have your opinion, I have mine. However, I don’t think we’ll share a common ground when it comes to these two characters, which is fine, so I’ll just leave it at that.

Lesask

heyitsrachel

Awkward for Clare. But I'm sure she's use to them going at it.

BlackWhiteRose

Loved that scene.

Lesask

She was used to it.

HipHopKingMike

Cool