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Old 04-10-2020, 02:36 AM
  #151
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Exactly. Tiff/Val was so authentically sexy. Donna/Tori... not. I really couldn't stand Donna from S5 onwards, and shoving her "sexiness" down our throats all the time was a big part of it.
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Old 04-10-2020, 02:46 AM
  #152
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It's sad because as a fan, you want to see these shows have a lasting impact and therefore continue for as long as the actors are happy to be there but you could really see the turning point with season 5 in Donna and part of me wonders if Tori was trying to seize the spotlight now that she didn't have Shannen as a screen partner...

Because Donna had basically always been defined by her friendships with Kelly and Brenda, and now that Kelly was with Brandon and Brenda was "in London" aka never coming back, Tori got to play Donna as a singular person who - without David - was trying to look for some sense of identity. Then she met Ray, and it all failed in a spectacularly awful fashion.
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Old 04-10-2020, 08:47 AM
  #153
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Because Donna had basically always been defined by her friendships with Kelly and Brenda, and now that Kelly was with Brandon and Brenda was "in London" aka never coming back, Tori got to play Donna as a singular person who - without David - was trying to look for some sense of identity. Then she met Ray, and it all failed in a spectacularly awful fashion.
Very true. I mean, they were all defined by their relationships with each other, but some of them were able to stand (out) as individual characters - and Donna was not one of them. Maybe because she started as a tertiary character, not even secondary.

I guess that also with Shannen's departure everyone advanced in hierarchy a bit. Jennie the most, of course, because now she was now a female lead and the second credited, but everyone else was also after Shannen, and now they progressed. Tori became second female lead, let's say. Of course there was Valerie, as a new cookie and Tiff as an obvious femme fatal (with much better boob job, btw), so she probably felt like she would have to demonstrate her power as a producer's daughter a bit too, and reemphasize awesomeness of Donna.
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Old 04-13-2020, 07:48 AM
  #154
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I know that it is a unpopular opinion here, but I enjoyed the first part of Season 5 more than the second part. I hate Kelly's guts, but her getting into Finley's cult is far too disturbing for me. It would have made better sense if Kelly relapsed in her eating disorder after the fire.

The less said about Ray Pruit the better. 😠 I'm sorry to sound like Felice, but I think that he was using Donna for her money.
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Old 04-16-2020, 01:02 PM
  #155
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The introduction of Val was sure interesting. I missed Brenda but it was nice to have Val there to shake stuff up.
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Old 04-16-2020, 03:04 PM
  #156
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Right. I remember really missing Brenda.
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Old 04-20-2020, 01:34 PM
  #157
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Val was a great introduction, even if I have to say so myself
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Old 04-21-2020, 06:35 PM
  #158
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No offense; but for me, Val's introduction was fake and it didn't represent the real her until the end of the episode. I do think that is excellent writing and it sort of makes the audience rethink their initial reaction about Val. But I think her actual introduction was when everyone found out about Val cheating on Steve with Dylan. I didn't like that about her in S5. I didn't like that she used people.
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Old 04-22-2020, 04:22 PM
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I think her actual introduction was when everyone found out about Val cheating on Steve with Dylan.
Yep, agreed

But the reason I liked that final Val scene in 5x01 was because it was fun to watch Tiffani finally play the bad girl. We'd seen her as Kelly Kapowski for so long, the cheerleader who the protagonist loved and lost (and finally married), it was such a shocking change to see Tiffani play this other side where she manipulates people.
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Old 04-22-2020, 08:34 PM
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It was fun to see her play the bad girl. It was a new role.
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Old 04-23-2020, 12:56 AM
  #161
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I think her real introduction, or one of rare times when we got to see a "real" Valerie, was when she yelled at Dylan that she was not Brenda.

Previous introductions, with her rolling a joint and calling the gang avocado heads, or when she cheated on Steve with Dylan, definitely caught the attention. They were revelations that now we had a real bad girl on the show - in the main cast. But then later when her vulnerabilities were discovered (although we knew from the start she had at least one major tragedy in her life, that her father committed a suicide - or so everyone thought) we of course learned things were a bit more complex than that.

Now was it a good writing - I am not sure. I think that writing of Valerie was a bit all over the place, not just as the seasons progressed, but in even S5 already. We got to see her as manipulative and calculative, but then oh, here's a bit of tragedy about her, but then we are back to Valerie being a bitch (especially when the other characters call her so, although at that point they are no better than her, but we should somehow think they are). It was pretty inconsistent.
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Old 05-31-2020, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by yulan (View Post)
I think her real introduction, or one of rare times when we got to see a "real" Valerie, was when she yelled at Dylan that she was not Brenda.
Great scene, well acted by Tiffani

There was also irony in that dialogue, given that Valerie was basically trying to project herself as the new Brenda in some sense by how she was trying to connect with Brandon in the joint bathroom and get Jim and Cindy on-side every time she did something wrong.
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Old 06-05-2020, 08:11 AM
  #163
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She managed to fool many with her sweet innocent look. When her real personality was exposed, she managed to get everyone except for Kelly to give her many second chances. In one scene in s5, I remember she telling Dylan how difficult it is living at the Walsh house.
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Old 06-05-2020, 11:30 AM
  #164
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Val is the one of the main reasons why this season was good - she spiced it up and I loved it. Yes she interfered with BK relationship but boy she is awesome.
Even though I'm a big fan of BK, I still did not like Kelly this season as well as the previous 2 seasons.
As for Donna in S5, well......hmmm.....no comment...and that includes every season regarding my response to her character
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Old 06-07-2020, 07:45 AM
  #165
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For some reason in s5, Donna and Kelly became more unlikable than usual. Kelly had always been unlikable at times, but she became worse this season.
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