Beverly Hills 90210 - Feisty girls (Brenda Walsh / Shannen Doherty) #47: "Strong, determined, and loving."- Holly Marie Combs about Shannen - Page 3

yulan · 05-30-2013, 04:48 AM

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I've noticed Shannen says things like "We have a mutual friend in common" or "We stay in contact through a friend." This means she does NOT keep in touch with that person. She has said that in the past about several cast members.

Yeah, it's a polite and diplomatic way to say that they are not in touch, but that it's not like a she doesn't give a damn.

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But I understand her position anyhow, where you haven't talked to someone in years and something big happens so you need to send a message but don't yet know if it would be cool to call them directly. Not to mention, he might not be able to move his face.

That's true. It would be quite an awkward situation. It would be nice to break an ice at some point though...

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I think Shannen and Jason have a love hate relationship. She doesn't call him when he almost dies and he makes fun of her on a talk show for being married multiple times.

I think that she cares about him more than he about her. I mean, she said much nicer things about him and more often than he of her. And I didn't hear her making fun of him or calling on him for... um, anything, while I can't say it goes both ways.

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I've never of the original version of that song.

You have to hear the original version of How Soon Is Now, because it's THE SMITHS and it rocks!

The Smiths - How Soon is Now (original video) - YouTube

heyitsrachel · 05-31-2013, 09:42 PM

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Originally Posted by yulan (View Post)

You have to hear the original version of How Soon Is Now, because it's THE SMITHS and it rocks!

"Meat is Murder."

Sorry, I laughed. I like the song and the video.

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TDW: 90210 essentially started the primetime teen drama genre. What kind of challenges were you up against?

Rosin: Fox was all about edgy/raunchy guy-humor like “Married With Children” while 90210 was a show that not only celebrated girl-empowerment but had this wonderful character named Brenda Walsh [Shannen Doherty] who represented the notion that a teenager could be sexually active and not be a ****, but actually a role model. Unfortunately, my first set of network executives did not see the world as I did . Someday I will write a long article about the censorship that occurred after Brenda lost her virginity at the Spring Dance [ed. note: Episode 1.21, Spring Dance] to her boyfriend (who had been AIDS tested) because she was happy and not full of remorse.

Ruby_Slippers · 06-01-2013, 10:29 AM

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Hm, interesting, and a very diplomatic way to answer. The more gullible side of me can't help thinking that, after all these years, she must also know his publicist. But I understand her position anyhow, where you haven't talked to someone in years and something big happens so you need to send a message but don't yet know if it would be cool to call them directly. Not to mention, he might not be able to move his face.

That's true. The friend in common might be the publicist!

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I think that she cares about him more than he about her. I mean, she said much nicer things about him and more often than he of her. And I didn't hear her making fun of him or calling on him for... um, anything, while I can't say it goes both ways.

I don't think that's true at all. Jason also says nice things just look at the OP for the 'Minnesota Twins' thread for evidence of his kind words. I think it's complicated. For starters, Shannen really isn't the average woman. I suspect Jason (and Luke) have never met anyone like Shannen in their lives. She has a large personality and they don't know how to react to it all the time. I've gathered this from things they have both said. They don't know how to "read" her. Also, for everyone on the show except Shannen this was the biggest thing they had ever done. They were extremely grateful to be on this huge Aaron Spelling show. I don't want to say Shannen took it lightly but because she was a child actress I don't think she saw it the same way. She had already worked with a TV icon, Michael Landon, on one of the biggest shows ever and she had done some descent film work. For a 17 or 18 year old she was pretty seasoned. Also, by all accounts Shannen is not easy to work with. She is difficult and was very unhappy during the height of 90210.

Furthermore, Shannen and Jason slept together. They obviously had chemistry based on their characters but when you throw that into the mix who knows what really happened. According to Tori's book, Shannen was ousted from 90210 during a coup d'état, led by Jason. I think Shannen must have really felt betrayed by that and who knows if she ever really forgave him. I believe there was a lot of push for the show to be an ensemble cast and I believe some cast members didn't like that Shannen always got so much attention (good and bad press).

That said- I think it was immature of Jason to throw daggers 15 years later but I get the feeling he likes to rip on Shannen to take her down a peg. Not sure why, but I don't think it's because he actually dislikes her, it's some sort of reaction.

loveslullaby · 06-01-2013, 02:51 PM

Agree with everything, Ruby!

yulan · 06-03-2013, 12:35 AM

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I don't think that's true at all. Jason also says nice things just look at the OP for the 'Minnesota Twins' thread for evidence of his kind words.

Of course I read them. They are all from 20 years ago (15? 10? A long time ago anyway.) Things have changed. He used to say nice things, but I don't think he does that now. Why to equalize the things from long time ago with the current situation, as some sort of rule that did not change?

He didn't say anything nice about her in the last 5 years or more, although I might have missed it, of course...

For everything else, it is an interesting post, and I guess I agree, but I also wanna stay away from what cast members and the rest of the crew say, because honestly, I don't trust anyone in show business

And to quote Dylan, I'm not THAT interested

I mean, things they say are very contradictory, like this:

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according to Tori's book, Shannen was ousted from 90210 during a coup d'état, led by Jason.

And according to Larry Mollin, Shannen pissed Tori as "the most important woman on the show" so that was the final straw. Some say it was Jennie. It's like a soap opera on its own, and I really don't wanna get into it much... I do agree on everything you said about difference in Shannen's career comparing to the others.

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90210 was a show that not only celebrated girl-empowerment but had this wonderful character named Brenda Walsh [Shannen Doherty] who represented the notion that a teenager could be sexually active and not be a ****, but actually a role model.

Lovely! Should be squeezed into one of the next titles.

Ruby_Slippers · 06-05-2013, 01:31 PM

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Of course I read them. They are all from 20 years ago (15? 10? A long time ago anyway.) Things have changed. He used to say nice things, but I don't think he does that now. Why to equalize the things from long time ago with the current situation, as some sort of rule that did not change? He didn't say anything nice about her in the last 5 years or more, although I might have missed it, of course...

Maybe 10.

The only not so nice thing he said was last year on the Wendy Williams thread but it was jabbing her for getting married a third time. I think it was because her first wedding was a bit of a circus and caused some trouble on the set. Jason even said some people were offended that they weren't invited.

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because honestly, I don't trust anyone in show business

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And according to Larry Mollin, Shannen pissed Tori as "the most important woman on the show" so that was the final straw.

Larry is a great interview but I'm not sure how accurate he is. In literary terms I'm sure he would be considered an unreliable narrator. He said the actor who played Deshawn was fired from the show after they wrote him dating Donna but he appears after that episode and in other seasons.

I think Charles Rosin and some of the others didn't like how Shannen was behaving. She made it difficult to film because she was late and unreliable. He complained to Aaron Spelling but Aaron hesitated because she was the star and he personally liked her. But then the cast (including Tori) wanted her gone, so he agreed. I'm sure he didn't like Tori's boyfriend but I doubt he would blame Shannen for Tori's boyfriend hitting her - whether she introduced them or not.

I also think the rest of the cast is a little amazed by Shannen's career when they think of how she behaved when she was younger. Shannen has even said she doesn't have to work (must be nice!) I think some of Jason't jabs have to do with that.

yulan · 06-07-2013, 06:01 AM

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I think it was because her first wedding was a bit of a circus and caused some trouble on the set. Jason even said some people were offended that they weren't invited.

Now THAT was 20 years ago

I saw that clip with Jason mocking Shannen. Whatever his reasons were, I thought it was stupid and unnecesarry.. But it also wasn't a big deal.

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Larry is a great interview but I'm not sure how accurate he is. In literary terms I'm sure he would be considered an unreliable narrator. He said the actor who played Deshawn was fired from the show after they wrote him dating Donna but he appears after that episode and in other seasons.

Of course he's unreliable, but I don't see why Tori would be any more reliable. She is trying to sell (literally: to SELL) her story. As I said, I don't trust any of them

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I think Charles Rosin and some of the others didn't like how Shannen was behaving. She made it difficult to film because she was late and unreliable. He complained to Aaron Spelling but Aaron hesitated because she was the star and he personally liked her. But then the cast (including Tori) wanted her gone, so he agreed. I'm sure he didn't like Tori's boyfriend but I doubt he would blame Shannen for Tori's boyfriend hitting her - whether she introduced them or not.

Yeah, I guess that's it.

heyitsrachel · 06-08-2013, 03:54 PM

From Charles Rosin interview:

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TDW: I have to ask: Brenda and Dylan or Kelly and Dylan?
Rosin: Brenda was our favorite character to write; the scene where Dylan and Kelly hook up the night Jack McKay was released at the pool at the Bel Age in season three [ed. note: Episode 3.19, Back in the High Life Again] was perhaps the hottest scene we ever shot — in other words, it’s a draw…

Ruby_Slippers · 06-09-2013, 05:52 AM

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Of course he's unreliable, but I don't see why Tori would be any more reliable. She is trying to sell (literally: to SELL) her story. As I said, I don't trust any of them

Fair enough. I tend to believe Tori. I do agree she was selling her story but based on how Shannen reacted to these alleged stories I tend to believe they were true. Shannen was pissed.

yulan · 06-09-2013, 11:58 PM

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Brenda was our favorite character to write

Future title! Maybe even better than "Writers, they loved Shannen..."

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I do agree she was selling her story but based on how Shannen reacted to these alleged stories I tend to believe they were true. Shannen was pissed.

She (and the others) could've been pissed because they were not true as well. I guess some of it must have been true though. It's not just about the facts; it's also about a way Tori wrote to present herself in the best possible light. But I'll stop about that book here, I didn't even read the whole...

heyitsrachel · 06-10-2013, 07:18 PM

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Originally Posted by yulan (View Post)

Future title! Maybe even better than "Writers, they loved Shannen..."

Totally! I hope we remember it.

yulan · 06-10-2013, 11:55 PM

We will

So many good new titles!

Scarlet's Walk · 06-11-2013, 08:34 AM

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Originally Posted by yulan (View Post)

Future title! Maybe even better than "Writers, they loved Shannen..."

Ohh I love that new title

heyitsrachel · 06-11-2013, 08:05 PM

From Larry Mollin interview:

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TDW: That was actually my next question. You were there for some big casting changes. You had Shannen leave in season 4, Tiffani join in season 5, Gabrielle [Carteris, Andrea] leave later in season 5 and you had Luke leave in season 6. What do you remember about those times and having to adapt the show?

Mollin: Oh, it was sad. The Shannen one, we wanted her to work. I mean, the writers loved Shannen. She’s a child of this business. You give her a script and she’ll just read it exactly like you wrote it. Never change a word, never ask a question. She had a photographic memory. She could be doing anything she wanted the night before and just come in and nail it–and the other kids hated that. She’s tough on the set. She’s just a child of the industry. It’s not really who she is. She’s just whoever she plays, in a lot of ways. She’s just a kind of unusual, very talented professional but hard to get along with. She just kind of pissed everyone off eventually and she pissed off the most important person, which was, you know, Tori [Spelling, Donna]. And not only that, she introduced Tori to a man who beat her. So that pretty much put the death card on her. So that was pretty much that. I think they were willing to go with her but, basically, what happened was, in the middle of a show, she cut her hair and totally screwed us up for continuity so everyone was pissed off at her. Like I said, not the writers so much, but the producer people. And the other kids were out to get her head, because she had pissed everybody off, and they basically went to the old man [Aaron Spelling] and said she had to go. He was happy to let her go because, like I said, she had introduced Tori to the guy who beat her. I’m not going to mention his name. So that was just the way business was done there. The old man was never the bad guy. He would let everyone else be the bad guy and then he’d get rid of her and then bring her back again [in Charmed]. But it was unfortunate she left, because we had all intention of keeping her there. And I always feel bad, because it was my idea to send her to England to get acting lessons [Episode 5.31-2, Mr. Walsh Goes To Washington], which kind of became a bad joke because she was a good actress. I never thought she was a bad actress. That whole storyline came out of something that I really loved. I loved Tennessee Williams and we went to the estate and got the whole Cat on a Hot Tin Roof thing [Episodes 4.27-30]. We had the Laura Kingman suicide [Episode 4.29, Truth and Consequences]. It was kind of out there but it was good, it was fun. It was well-done and Shannen was good in it. But it was a way to get rid of her. But we, obviously, always kept her alive in season 5, 6 [by mentioning her]. We always meant to keep her and, of course, that’s the big relationship. Our largest triangle–her, Dylan and Kelly–that’s the crown jewels, as far as we were concerned. We would never do anything to harm that so we always just kept it going. And that’s what’s so harmful to me. All these careful things we did, these new people [on the new 90210] are just indiscriminate. Whatever they can get the jolt with, they do. There’s no thinking.

yulan · 06-12-2013, 12:28 AM

We can use both "Brenda was our favorite character to write" and "Writers, they loved Shannen." One is about Bren and the other about Shannen

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Fan Forum > TV Shows - Past > Beverly Hills 90210 > Feisty girls (Brenda Walsh / Shannen Doherty) #47: "Strong, determined, and loving."- Holly Marie Combs about Shannen