playgroundDiaries

IMPORTANT: Do not talk about what people who dislike D/K say on that thread. It's their right to have their opinion. Let's just discuss what WE think. Thank you.

playgroundDiaries

We made it! Dy/K is 20 LoveThreads old.

Definitely should change the opening a bit before we reach 21, though.

SMUSH

It's like their 20th Anniversary Thread or something...

And the title is perfect... 20 years from now, they'll still be fighting, arguing, having make up sex, having horny sex, having loving sex and generally just wanting to be with each other and loving each other for the rest of their past and present lives!!

playgroundDiaries

You just gave us such a 'rep' right there. Well, yes, to be a Dy/K fan, you gotta love their fights too -- because we understand the significance of them -- and their undeniable attraction for one another. But what we can all agree on most of all is that they loved each other greatly.

I actually have to 'size down' that poem-art that really does look 'anniversary'-like to get it to fit here. It'll be up relatively soon.

SMUSH

Was that a good thing or a bad thing?

Real couples fight and get on each other's nerves and make up and are sweet and are snarky. Sometimes they hurt each other but in the end there's always love.

Perfect couples are boring.

I love this graphic!!

playgroundDiaries

Well, it works with the stereotype that they were all 'fighting and sex', which I vehemently disagree with, naturally. Yes, there was lots of that, but there was even more luuuurve, as you might say. Don't worry about it.

Dude, exactly. I like to think of it more as they cared about each other enough to have these fights. There was no apathy. They had business. They needed to grow, and looked to one another to do so. And personal growth isn't always easy. The writers didn't throw in needless arguing. Their conflicts illustrated things about the characters that had to be addressed.

Besides, they were cool as a cucumber together and spat-free for the majority of S4 (that 'middle portion' that's sometimes forgotten). Things were especially smooth as of the end of "Windstruck". The end of S3, beginning with the end of "Senior Poll", was also smooth sailing. <--- Yeah, that's always been my favorite smilie, next to .

satisfy the crave

DUDE! 20 threads!

Imagine our 50th...and 100th.

SMUSH

I'm really happy that the writers decided to bring Dy/K together just as they were about to start college. I always thought Luke and Jennie had more on-screen chemistry than Luke and Shannen. To me, they made a more believable couple in an adult relationship. I think people liked Dylan and Brenda because they represented the ideal fairytale wholesome girl/bad boy romance. But that's fiction. Dylan and Kelly were the real thing. They were Coke.

Slightly OT but not really --

Remember how I told you that I also ship Elliot and Olivia in another fandom (Law N Order: SVU)? Well, in a nutshell, Elliot Stabler is an NYPD detective who works in an elite unit of the police force that handles sexually-based crimes. He's a devout Catholic family man with four kids who had been recently separated from his wife of over twenty years. Shippers say it's due to his close relationship with (and secret attraction to) his partner, Olivia Benson, a single, very attractive woman who became an SVU detective because of her own past -- she is the product of a rape.

I think that's why I gravitated more towards Dylan and Kelly than Dylan and Brenda. I have always been a sucker for the angst. Even when I was a teenager!!

Elliot is a brooder. Much like Dylan. And because she's a constant reminder of her mother's rape -- her mother resented her even though she decided to keep her -- Olivia grew up not knowing what unconditional love is about. She's never been in a serious relationship, always afraid to open up her heart. She's skittish. Much like Kelly.

playgroundDiaries

Aw. I do the same thing with Nate/Brenda from "Six Feet Under". That's very much a more adult and better-written version of Dy/K. I swear. But I think you made a typo. So, it's just Olivia's mother and not Olivia that had been raped, right?

Btw, do you believe Kelly's confession in "Slumber Party" was of being raped at 14 (by Ross Weber)? I always did and, as of late, gathered an avalanche of evidence to that end. Still, if you didn't, I'd be curious to know.

And with that , yeah, I've been a sucker for the angst since I was 9. Dylan and Kelly, while I didn't assume they'd be together, I had already picked out as those characters in the most pain. And a similar pain, at that.

Hehe. They were "coke".

Hey, Gone With the Wind or Romeo and Juliet? Pick one.

SMUSH

I liked Nate and Brenda, too!! I didn't like it when he cheated on her with his "sister" or whoever that chick was. Or with Lisa.

Oh, and sorry if I didn't make it clear -- Olivia's mom had been raped which resulted in Olivia. Olivia, nope not raped.

See... this is one of the things I didn't like about the show. No one kept track of what happened to who. First, Kelly gets raped by Ross Weber. Then she gets almost raped at the Halloween party. Then she gets really raped by that thug in season 9. I mean, how much torment does this girl need to go through? Even Donna had an almost rape storyline and Val was sexually abused (if memory serves me correctly).

When I first saw "Take Back the Night", when she said Steve rescued her, I thought she was talking about the Halloween incident cuz she said 'a couple of years ago'... But wasn't that Brenda and Donna?

As for RW, I don't know. I think I remember her saying that she'd been flirting with him and she wanted to have sex with him; she just didn't want to do it on the cold hard ground like that. But the tricky thing is we don't know what really happened so if he was crude enough to have sex with her on the ground without even a blanket or anything, he obviously didn't even try to make the experience remotely comfortable for her. Even if he'd seduced her, I would imagine that he'd have tried to coax her gently. And if she didn't like being on the ground like that, she probably protested and asked him to stop, even if it was just to say, "Hey, stop, let's get a blanket," but, again, he didn't so he probably kept going anyway cuz that's how she remembers her first time -- on the ground with no blanket and a guy who never called her again.

So... LOL.... yeah, I believe her!

Ooooh, toughie!! CRAP!! I just watched both movies this past weekend, too!! Do you mean for the angst or for the love story?

Um, I guess I'd have to pick Gone With The Wind because of the whole Rhett-chasing-Scarlett and Dylan-chasing-Kelly similarities. Then Rhett giving up even though he still loved her and trying to keep his pride intact after she'd rejected him numerous times.

But the only reason I pick that over RNJ is because I also watched the sequel, SCARLETT. And after years of being apart, Rhett marrying someone else, Scarlett marrying someone else, living on two different continents, they finally find their way back to each other and realize that, despite the bickering and obstacles, they'd loved each other all along.

KellylovesDylan

It was Brenda and Donna that walked in when she was about to be raped, but Steve did haul the guy out of the room with Dylan and she was also trying to make a point at the Take Back the Night to save Steve when he was about to be fried by Laura.

I believe Kelly about the Ross Weber incident as well. Think about this, go ahead to eigth season at the reunion party when Kelly runs into Ross Weber, strangly enough she tells Val. Val confronts him on the subject, he sees Kelly again knowing that she remebers, is shocked and the proceeds to want to leave. The hardcore evidence is right in that episode.

I never did see Gone with the Wind and I hated Romeo and Juilet. I thought Romeo was such a jerk...and very fickle. (Just thought I'd throw my two cents in on that one lol)

playgroundDiaries

Oh, there've been like 37 rape storylines on this show. When I actually tally them up, I'll let you know. Kelly, alone, literally has:

1. Ross Weber (actual), S0
2. Guy at Halloween party (attempt), S2
3. Friend of Colin's drug dealer (attempt), S6
4. Joe Patch (actual), S9
5. And, to some extent, Joe returns (attempt), S9

Yes, I think it's way too excessive. Then Val, Donna ... to say nothing of Jill and Bonnie (betcha don't remember them ). And Laura's false claim.

You're right. It was technically Brenda and Donna who saved K, not Steve and Dylan on Halloween. That always annoyed me too. But it was a great plot twist for the episode, and I love that episode.

I only bring the storyline up because I think it has a lot to do with her "living up" to/the crafting of her reputation later on ... and she certainly brings the hangups of her reputation at school and with men into her relationship with Dylan. I'm surprised, though. The Ross Weber thing was always clear to me. And I had just learned what sex was then! I wrote a SuperLong explanation the other day for some other fans, including admissions from cast and crew that it was meant to be taken as a rape confession. Debating whether or not to post it ...

Heh. And the trend continues. I swear, Dy/K fans always seem to go for the tumultuous/tempestuous relationships. I'm all for Gone With the Wind. And I can't believe I haven't seen the sequel yet. Didn't know there was one.

EDIT: Oh, hey, Alexis. Totally didn't realize you were here.

KellylovesDylan

That is far far to many rape and attempted rape storylines. I did however like Donna's attempted rape storyline. The whole thing where know one knew who it was and you knew he was going to go after someone...but when? It was creepy, but overall far far to many. Especially because Kelly was like half of them hahaha.

You should post it, I'd be interested in giving it a read. It sounds interesting.

hahaha I am here for now until I get kicked off. It's going to suck when school starts up on thursday because I wont be able to be on so late at night unless its a friday or saturday lololol

playgroundDiaries

You asked for it. But I'm glad you did.

Re: Ross Weber

Well ... Darren Star, Jennie, her talent manager, and, to a less blatant extent, Ian, Shannen, Jason, and Gabrielle would all appear to disagree. It was a rape incident. The slumber party confession is regarded as one of her best and most-referenced scenes, as far as behind-the-scenes specials and interviews go -- always discussed in the context of 90210 'being bold with issue-oriented episodes' in S1.

But first, just re-watch the scene (it's at the end):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PajNAmHu2g

Notice the sad/uncomfortable stares, the dramatic music, the sheer length of the clip, and the fact that this girl is SOBBING her way through the tale. I hardly think such a production would be made if she was only 'put-off' by him not bringing a blanket. OMG. Give her some credit, please. Her saying that she was so stupid to assume all he wanted to do was show her his favorite part of the woods ("but, of course, when we get there all he wants to do is have sex") should be a major tip-off that she had wanted to have sex with Ross, but NOT then and not in that context. But really, all you need to know is that she's amazingly shaken up over the whole thing (not wanting to confess/crying and even shaking a bit while telling ...). I watched when I was 10, and there was no ambiguity. This show was the first of its kind so maybe they couldn't say it so plainly, but it's not like characters can't speak in roundabout ways without delivering their message to the audience. An example: When Brenda tells Dylan she wants "more than his applause", I knew it meant that she wanted a renewed romance with him ... not that she wanted him to see more of her plays.

Now, the outside support:

E! Celebrity Profile: Jennie Garth ('99 or '00)

17 minutes in,
JG: "We did some great stuff. Really, really groundbreaking, important material. The first dramatic thing that they gave me to do, it was this great scene at a slumber party. I got dared to tell the truth about something and it was my first sexual experience, and it was actually a rape incident."

Lifetime Intimate Portrait: Jennie Garth ('03, I think)

30 minutes in,
Randy James (JG's manager): "Early on, she dealt with date rape ... [cut to: a portion of the above scene] ... She tapped into an emotional level that I hadn't seen her tap into before as an actress."

Jason Priestley: "I watched her deliver that monologue and I just remember thinking, 'Wow, she's a star.'"

Amazon dot com interview with show creator, Darren Star, discussing S1 to promote the DVD release ('06)

2:30 minutes in,
Darren Star: "And there were a couple moments where I thought the show was really working and ... the first season, we did a slumber party episode when all the, you know, the girls were sort of confessing. Just having this sort of like, you know, sitting in a circle and just kind of, like, kinda bearing their soul to each other and ... Jennie Garth had this scene where she talked about the first time she had sex and she was basically date raped, and I was watching that scene and I thought, 'You know ... if I were a teenager flipping through the channels and I saw this, I - I wouldn't not be able - I would have to watch this show. Because there had been nothing like that on television."

He also WROTE the episode.

But if that's not enough ...

BH 90210: Our Favorite Moments ('98):

JG: "The first time that I ever felt like, 'Oh, I just did good work, maybe', was when all of the girls were having a slumber party and someone asked Kelly a question that brought back a really bad memory. [cut to: portion of the scene] ... I watched the show and thought, 'Wow, that moved me. And I think that that's what people watching it feel."

90210 Reunion Special ('03):

Ian Ziering: "It was the episode, I think it was called 'Slumber Party', Jen, they, you had this monologue where you were - "
Gabrielle Carteris: "She was weeping. It was - "
IZ: "Where you were, you know, conveying to everybody what had happened to you and, you know, the camera was moving in and I was so moved by your performance." [cut to: portion of the scene]
GC: "I remember, and you know what? It had made us cry. And we were sitting in a circle and all the girls were - "
Shannen Doherty: "We were all crying. Just by watching her."

And onto some scene dialogue ...

In "Take Back the Night", Angela Rhodes (from the Student Senate) asks at the seminar, "Okay, I know this is a sensitive question, but how many of you have ever been a victim of date rape?"

Kelly raises her hand and says to herself (and Donna/Brenda/Laura), "High School, it was practically a weekend ritual ... " This is not to be taken literally, of course, but it speaks to her role in the sexual/social scene at West Beverly.

And here's her speech at the rally:
"I know that date rape is real because it happened to me. A couple of years ago, a guy I had just met tried to rape me. And whatever I was wearing, or whatever he thought that implied, it was not my fault. But there have been other times when I've ended up in someone else's bed and, even though I regretted it, it was my responsibility. I didn't say 'yes', but I didn't say 'no' either. ... And blaming someone else doesn't make it their fault. ... Anyway, I don't even know the name of the guy who tried to attack me, but I do know the name of the guy who saved me that night. And he's here to tonight. His name is Steve Sanders."

Why does she mention the attempted rape in "Halloween", S2, instead of her actual rape at 14? Because (1) The only reason she was speaking at the rally was to clear Steve's name so that Laura could not falsely accuse him of date rape, and this was an incident he was involved in, and (2) When you've had multiple rape or near-rape experiences, I'd imagine it's more painful to talk about all of them at once and, in this case, it was totally superfluous to do so. Even if Steve wasn't being accused of a crime, Kelly probably would have chosen to speak about the time that was less traumatic ... AND the only one the viewers saw happen on-screen, and thus is remembered better.

There are at least 3 guys responsible for spreading rumors about K's sexuality: Steve, Ross, and John Sears. My impression was that she had lost her self-respect as a result (of this and the rape), and would at times 'live up' to her reputation for being "easy" on her own. Other times, boys would assume they could take advantage of her, and she'd be and/or feel cornered/tricked. Plus, her mother was allowing herself to be used by men day and night, in the same way. And this is what K had to witness.

Here's a very relevant scene from "Everybody's Talkin' Bout It", S2:

A: "Well, at least you've had 'something' ..."
K: "Andrea, wait just a second. When I was a Freshman, I threw myself at a Senior, who pushed me into a bush and never talked to me again. For the next year and half, I spent all my time trying to live up to that reputation. And now, even though I've changed, I never know if I guy asks me out because he likes me or because he thinks ... I'm easy."
A: "I'm sorry. That's terrible."
K: "So don't sit here feeling sorry for yourself. You're not missing out on anything you can't do later. ... Me, I can never go back."
_________________

And tying this in with Dylan, Kelly fears that history could repeat itself, even with him, which is one major reason why she nearly loses her mind towards the end of S3. Dylan proves himself, however, as the first guy to take her seriously. And it is all love from there.

KellylovesDylan

God I'm in awe over what you wrote. It's backed up so well and written so clear and to the point. You did a great job with this! I'm glad you let me read it! You never fail to impress me.

Another point I thought of while reading this was how she lied about her first time the first time the asked her. She tried to say it was with Steve because the date rape was to horrible to think and speak about. When a girl is raped they can't talk about it and when they do open up about it its a huge deal. So the very fact that she tired to run and say that her first time was with Steve was evidence right there.

You had so many great sources and points not just from the show, but from what the actors and writers did. The fact is they would know best, they made the show, they played the part, they know what their character went through because they are the ones that give their character depth.