South of Nowhere - Juliet & Juliet [SA] #30: Because We Know That They'll Get Their Happily Ever After - Page 8

eternalnoob · 07-03-2008, 01:40 PM

I hardly believe Ashley was innocent in anything that happened in s2 but I don't hate her at all for it. She was stupid, every character has stupid moments/seasons.

maybe someday · 07-03-2008, 01:44 PM

I never hated either, I was just annoyed/mad at her. The thing was, the way she acted in S2 was written as if 'Oh, that's just Ashley', it wasn't her making mistakes, it was supposed to be her character, which wasn't at all like Ashley in S1. I don't know if that makes sense.

eternalnoob · 07-03-2008, 01:49 PM

Oh, I know what you mean and that really is the fault of the writers but it's also how they wrote her. So you're forced to take it as it comes and there were things that I found completely OOC like that stupid tattoo thing. But there were things I didn't find OOC and understood her making mistakes.

Esp when you see how much she actually did want Spencer in s1 and was afraid of getting her like you see in WJH which is why she acted the way she acted in that ep...pushing her away and treating her all different.

maybe someday · 07-04-2008, 12:51 PM

That made sense, that was in character, but they pushed it to the complete limits in S2 to points when it was so OOC. There were just moments where it seemed like Ashley was like "Well, I have Spence now, I don't have to be nice or sweet to her anymore, I can just be a bitch." It was just idiotic, because you see how much she wanted Spencer in S1, and then there were multiple times in S2 where she seemed like she couldn't care less about her/their relationship.

Urgh, I was just not happy about pretty much anything in S2. I really wish they hadn't have jumped into bed so fast, because them getting ready to sleep together could have been a story arc for them, then the ILYs, then Paula finding out, then dealing with being out at school, maybe a couple of Ashley's old one night stands to show the contrast of her then and now, and a whole bunch of other natural, realistic, S1ish drama. But no, instead we get idiotic dead fathers, long lost half sisters, magical insta!Bffs, love triangles that made no sense and countless other contrived crap.

eternalnoob · 07-04-2008, 01:08 PM

TBH, seeing s3, (IMHO) I didn't understand some of the decisions they made for either Ashley OR Spencer in s2...as a couple and separately but I chocked that up to bad writing and the need for them to show the worst in both before they can show the good. I'm glad that Spencer finally put Ashley in her place in s3 and didn't let her walk all over her feelings like in s2. As much as ppl can say she stood up for herself in s2, she really didn't because she kept going back to Ashley anyway when she KNEW that she was being mistreated. That's just as bad as Ashley being the moron she was with how she was dealing with their relationship...running to Aiden every 3 seconds with anything.

And B, I think we have found something to agree on. I HATED with a passion that burns that they made them have sex sooo early in the relationship. It kind of diminished the meaning of their relationship if they had sex the first time they ever even kissed. I would've loved for sex to be a topic they tackled together in s2 and we can see them relish in it and really enjoy it in s3. I think the sex issue would've been enough drama between them.

They had sex before they even said they loved each other which pissed me off royally because as much as I love the thought of my ship getting bizzay...I love the idea of them actually being in love. And seeing them fall for one another was what got me in s1.

maybe someday · 07-05-2008, 12:04 AM

They definitely loved each other before the sex, they just didn't say it yet, but it's questionably whether they were in love at that point, or if they just loved each other as besties and we in like with each other. Who knows. All I do know is that I hated how it was handled and that amazingly awkward and gross scene about it later in the episode. "It was great with you." WOW, Ash. Reassuring.

I don't think Spencer taking Ashley back was nearly as bad as Ashley messing up in the first place, because I do think that Spencer held her ground to an extent because she'd let Ashley know what was bothering her, and Ashley would BS assure her that it wasn't the case. I mean, it was maybe ... three times that they'd get in the Aiden fight [the rest was up complaining], but what was Spencer supposed to do after Ashley apologized? Break up with her? Make her stop seeing Aiden? Once she went over the line, Spencer was outtie. Still pissed it was Aiden that got to put Ashley in her place and not Spencer, since she deserved to do it so much more than anyone, especially him.

eternalnoob · 07-05-2008, 12:09 AM

That bench scene made the whole thing worse for me. It was just not needed and weird.

Spencer taking her back, to me, was just as bad as Ashley bs-ing the whole time about their relationship. Spencer knew full well that things weren't going that great since every time they fought, it was about the same problem. I was desperately hoping she'd stand her ground like she did in WJH, and tell Ashley what's up. She could've done what she did in s3 back in s2 had she had the balls to do it. She stayed in that relationship knowing it wasn't going well...otherwise she wouldn't have said what she said to Aiden about them hanging out.

They were both unnecessarily dumb in s2 with how they handled things and brought other ppl in the mix who shouldn't have been there.

maybe someday · 07-05-2008, 12:23 AM

She told Ashley that she didn't like the way she went to him and called her out on having feelings for him, what else could she do? Just break up with her because of that? She told her her feelings, and telling Aiden to back off was her other approach, and then she'd had enough, hence her screaming at Prom before the shooting. I do think that Spencer was too passive in S2, but I don't think she was as passive as people act like she was, just like I don't think Ashley deserves as much hate as she got. I mean, she didn't see all of the stuff we saw, so it's not like she could call Ashley out on all the stuff we would have liked to. Besides, after she'd call Ashley out on an Aiden related matter, things with that would calm down for a bit, so she would think things were back to normal. It's not like he was a constant problem with them. It was at the beginning, then Spence call her out on it in Guess Who's Not Coming Out, then all the drama with Debbie and Paula happened, and then it was back to Aiden drama later. So ...

The only person involved in the mix that shouldn't have been there was Aiden, and that's on Ashley. And Aiden.

eternalnoob · 07-05-2008, 12:44 AM

That's my point. She could've just took a break since they did keep coming back to the same problem but she stayed in it even though they fought around the same issue. And it was never really solved. Ashley would just give her puppy eyes and they'd kiss on the cheek and problem forgotten. I just never liked that passive crap with Spence and was eager to see her take the bull by the horns which she did in s3 so I was happy. Esp since she told her what she needed to say. There was some communication which was what was lacking in almost all of s3.

Neither of them should've been hated on at all. But I did grow a bit annoyed with both of them for their actions. I saw them both doing equally destructive things to their relationship which they worked hard to build all of s1. Ashley with her selfishness and stupidity and Spencer with her passive aggression.

Aiden was who I meant with "ppl in the mix who shouldn't be".

Endless Rain · 07-05-2008, 12:59 AM

I hate to break up intelllectual conversation but at least we agree on a few things right? I mean before it gets too heated, we can all agree that Ashley effed up royally as far as the Aiden thing. She didn't know how to handle it and deserves a good amount of heat for it. In the end, we all love Spashley, as individuals and as a couple.

Can we talk about some cute moments? The negativity makes me sad.

maybe someday · 07-05-2008, 01:00 AM

That's just not how relationships work, it's not that simple. You're acting as if they fought about Aiden continiously. They only ever fought about him in 204, which put an end to it for a long time, and then he wasn't an issue again until the last two episodes, in which Spence put her foot down a few times before reaching her breaking point. The fans all had issues with it the whole season, but Spencer didn't until the end. The tape was just about seeing it and being hurt, it wasn't about them now. Just like Spence being upset about Ashley staying over at his house in the premiere wasn't about her being at Aiden's, but about her being anywhere by her house in her time of need.

Cute moments are fine by me.

eternalnoob · 07-05-2008, 11:55 AM

Exactly, the issue with them was always about Ashley never being with her or relying on her with problems in their relationship. It didn't become a problem about Aiden till end of season when Spencer got all jealous about it. THAT"S the issue I'm talking about. Spencer kept being passive about which irked me because she already had dealt with Ashley pushing her away in s1 and when she stood up for herself, things were fine. But she kept going around in circles with the same problem with Ashley all season in s2. That's my point.

But alright, cutest moment in s2, since we've been discussing s2, for me is the "princess" scene.

sinertia · 07-05-2008, 12:14 PM

The egomaniac scene was super cute, too.

maybe someday · 07-05-2008, 03:53 PM

But that doesn't make sense because she understood getting pushed away after Raife, which she stood her ground and wouldn't be pushed away. Then the crap about not coming out, dealt with. Then there was all the Paula drama which had nothing to do with Ashley's issues. Then she let Ashley get used to the idea of Paula knowing about them, they were fine. Then the Aiden stuff happened again, and she called her on it. I'm really not getting all of these examples you're talking about, where she was supposedly such a doormat. So, give me some, other than the ones I've already mentioned, that don't take place in the last two episodes of the season or 404. These issues that you mentioned at the beginning of the post, weren't brought up until the last two episodes, where Spencer stood up for herself quite a lot. The fans complained about Ashley always going to Aiden, but Spencer wasn't aware of that until later on, and when she was, she expressed her dislike of it.

eternalnoob · 07-05-2008, 06:19 PM

Raife's death she stood her ground. After the whole coming out thing, then it was all the Ashley drama. Ashley being all bitchy about Paula and Spencer's closeness. Spencer asking Ashley why she couldn't come to her instead of Aiden with problems about their relationship - which catapulted into the whole Ashley being over at Aiden's house and Spencer coming there to witness it. Even in Guess Who's Coming Out to Dinner, the whole issue about their relationship started with Ashley's obsessions over her sister and Aiden and them being a secret because Spencer wouldn't come out. If she didn't wanna break up, she didn't necessarily have to but I think she could've had the assertive attitude she had in s3 back when these problems were surfacing in s2.

But anyway, onto cute moments...