Fan Fiction/Writing - Fanfic Lawsuits - Page 2

ROCKSTAR · 01-12-2004, 04:17 AM

This is so crazy.

I've had ideas for fics that are too big for my own limited "talents" and they turn out to be along the lines of the show. It's really cool because you're thinking what the writers are thinking. It's surreal.

Walloo · 01-12-2004, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Silversun:
<STRONG>
Walloo, thanks for the link. I just skimmed it, which is probably why I don't understand this, but what exactly is fusion? [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]
</STRONG>

Quote:

A type of crossover wherein the characters in one series, instead of meeting the characters in another series, actually replace them in the continuity. Again quoting Elsa Bibat's essay "A Long Strange Walk": "A fusion is what you would get if you tossed one series in with another in a blender and pressed 'MAXIMUM PUREE.'"

You can find all definitions here.

Berlin · 01-12-2004, 11:44 AM

Hey guys! I just got a reply from the lawyer I was talking about. This is the answer he sent me, I'm still trying to understand it.

I am curious about lawsuits pertaining to fan fiction authors. Can you please explain how a fan fiction author can be sued as a result of using characters of movies, television shows, or books.

ANSWER:

Characters are copyrightable independently from the expression contained in a book, screen play, television show or movie. Generally speaking, the test asks whether the character is so well developed such that taking a character would in fact be taking protected expression. There are several legal tests used by different courts, but it boils down to how well developed the character is. There is a case that says you could not take Rocky Balboa because he is so well developed that by taking him and importing him into another story line you would be taking protected expression. You could, however, probably take a lesser known character such as Thunderlips (the Hulk Hogan character). Thunderlips appears only in one scene in one movie and is not terribly well developed. So why don't authors do this? Because if they do this they will not receive the blessing of the copyright owner unless they receive permission. In this space the way to make money is to be an authorized author. For example, no fan fiction authors would dream of writing about a minor Star Wars character without the blessing of Lucas Entertainment. Loyal fans will read and buy Star Wars novels, and Lucas can guarantee placement in bookstores around the world. If you are not authorized you would be swimming up stream and likely not get any placement and ruin your chances of ever being authorized.

I think, the guy thought I was talking about being authorized in a sense to get paid, but maybe this can help us.

Berlin

Silversun · 01-12-2004, 04:43 PM

Thanks for that Berlin. Well then, I guess it really depends on how well your character/s was developed before you started writing about them. How well-known is well-known? Are most TV series considered well-known? Personally, I wouldn't think so. Would that mean we're safe? Maybe it means that movie fanfic authors have more to worry about, because I'm sure more people know about Harry Potter than, say, Dawson Leary or Xander Harris. [img]smilies/look.gif[/img]

[ 01-12-2004: Message edited Silversun ]

Catalinay · 01-12-2004, 09:26 PM

Unless someone is trying to get paid for their fanfic, lawsuits seem frivolous to me.

I do feel possessive of the OCs I've developed, so I can kind of understand some authors not liking fanfic. But I think if I were an author, I'd be absolutely thrilled to find fanfics of my work!

Sita* · 01-13-2004, 02:44 PM

Writer's University has a whole section devoted to fan fiction and lawsuits.

Some interesting links:

Michela's Fan Fiction Legal FAQ

Valdron's Fan Fic Legal FAQ

And a list of which authors/TV shows/etc. allow or do not allow fanfic.

pacifierrocks · 01-14-2004, 03:56 PM

wow, i've never heard of this before. are corporations so bored that they're going through fanfiction sites just so that they'll have someone to sue? this is the dumbest thing i've ever heard.

Black Lake · 01-15-2004, 04:41 AM

I was looking around a couple of sites and found this...

Quote:

"If I make up my own stories, but base them on another work, my new work belongs to me."

False. U.S. Copyright law is quite explicit that the making of what are called "derivative works" -- works based or derived from another copyrighted work -- is the exclusive province of the owner of the original work. This is true even though the making of these new works is a highly creative process. If you write a story using settings or characters from somebody else's work, you need that author's permission.
Yes, that means almost all "fan fiction" is arguably a copyright violation. If you want to write a story about Jim Kirk and Mr. Spock, you need Paramount's permission, plain and simple. Now, as it turns out, many, but not all holders of popular copyrights turn a blind eye to "fan fiction" or even subtly encourage it because it helps them. Make no mistake, however, that it is entirely up to them whether to do that.

There is a major exception -- criticism and parody. The fair use provision says that if you want to make fun of something like Star Trek, you don't need their permission to include Mr. Spock. This is not a loophole; you can't just take a non-parody and claim it is one on a technicality. The way "fair use" works is you get sued for copyright infringement, and you admit you did copy, but that your copying was a fair use. A subjective judgment on, among other things, your goals, is then made.

However, it's also worth noting that a court has never ruled on this issue, because fan fiction cases always get settled quickly when the defendant is a fan of limited means sued by a powerful publishing company. Some argue that completely non-commercial fan fiction might be declared a fair use if courts get to decide.

Catalinay · 01-16-2004, 05:03 PM

That's very interesting; thanks for posting it here Black Lake!

And yes, I think that non-commercial fan fic would most likely be declared fair use if it went to the courts. Of course, I'm not a lawyer, so maybe I'm totally wrong about that!

Casandra · 01-17-2004, 04:34 AM

You know, I can't understand if you have a disclaimer and waive all the rights to the characters within your fic that there can be any real legal argument. It may be considering copyright infringement, but if you take no responsibility for the contents of the fanfic, how can the infringement be argued?

The thing I find kind of interesting from what that lawyer said, the more well known a character, the bigger the bigger the violation is. To me that's strange considering the more popular a character, the more well known the origins of it are. And arguably, the more fanfic there is based upon it.

Anyway, I found this on the Writer's University Website and I thought, since the majority of this board is related to Movie and TV fic, that I'd post it.

Quote:

7. How do I avoid getting sued?

The easiest way to avoid getting sued is to avoid writing fan fiction in fandoms where the fandom hierarchy, the powers that be, have said no fan fiction. Examples of fandoms to avoid are those based on the following authors who have requested that fans not write fan fiction or not post it where the author may run across it: Anne McCaffery, Larry Niven, Terry Pratchett, Mercedes Lackey, Marion Zimmer Bradley and Chelsea Quinn Yarbo.

Another easy way to avoid getting sued is to write fan fiction for fandoms based on television shows, cartoons, anime, video games and movies. The property rights to those are often owned by a corporation and open to multiple interpretations. Most of the cases where people have been sent cease and desist notices for fan fiction have been from fandoms based on books.

8. How do I avoid getting fined if I get sued and loose?

The best way to avoid getting fined is to add a disclaimer at the beginning of your story. While a disclaimer doesn�t protect you from getting sued, a disclaimer can help to mitigate any potential fines you might encur.

*Di* · 01-18-2004, 09:59 AM

Very interesting reading all of this.
I guess we will not really know for sure until a judge has ruled in a case.

I also think that what you're writing about is very important, if I understand it right. Writing about real persons is one thing, writing about movie characters another, and writing about tv characters or other not well known characters is a whole different thing.

Di

[ 01-18-2004: Message edited *Di* ]

Catalinay · 01-20-2004, 11:41 AM

I always find it interesting that some authors who are against fan fiction (Mercedes Lackey comes to mind in particular) will allow other authors to publish books and/or short stories set in their universes.

I suppose it's a matter of asking permission, possibly being familiar with the other author's work, and having editorial control. It's just always seemed kind of strange to me for some reason.

Casandra · 01-22-2004, 10:27 PM

It also probably has something to do with the fact that they most likely get a small cut from the profits. Most likely minimal, but still, they make *some* money from it. Whereas fic is just for entertainment purposes and no revenue is generated by it.

doxyanna · 01-28-2004, 11:04 AM

Hi!

Thought I'd explain why book writers don't generally like fanfic based on their work.

There's actually been discussion about this on some of the professional writing lists I'm on. Did you all know that once a book is published, if fanfic is posted using the characters and situations from the book, there's a very real possibility that the author will lose their contract with the publisher and could lose rights to their own creations? This is one reason so many authors say, "no fanfic." Another reason is what happened to Marion Zimmer Bradley. She used to sanction fanfic and even compile it in anthology books. UNTIL a fan wrote a fanfic novel and sent it to her. Turns out it was very similar to the unpublished novel MZB was nearly finished writing. Due to similarities, MZB told said fan she'd give her and aknowledgement in the book since it had some similairities. Long story short: the fan accused MZB of stealing her fanfic idea. The book went in the trash. MZB never looked at another piece of fanfic again.

As for Harry Potter. The author and a slew of lawyers drew up a list of what's allowable and what's not. If you write and post something against their "rules" and they catch you, you'd better have a good lawyer. The same goes for a few other authors who allow fanfic--it's under specific conditions.

So, as fanfic writers we're all much safer sticking to TV or movie fic than book or real people based fiction. Adding a disclaimer on the story that says you reliquinsh all rights to Everything in the story can help, but it doesn't completely cover you.

Anna

Silversun · 01-28-2004, 01:44 PM

Wow, thanks for telling us about this doxyanna, that was really interesting. I feel really bad for the author now...

Guess I'll just stick to my relatively safe zone of a cancelled TV show. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]


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