Jensen Ackles - Dean & Sammy #17 - Because S5 will put the boys back where they belong - together - Page 5

Calgaryfan2006 · 09-11-2009, 03:58 PM

I thought the last scene was heartbreaking, but t was coming. Sammy made the wrong choice and now he is going to pay for it. Good for Dean standing up for himself.

sunny214 · 09-11-2009, 04:08 PM

Of course what Sam did was pretty hurtful and not easy to forgive and by no means should Dean give in so easily but I think it is not unforgiveable. He wasn´t fully his self with all the Demonblood. And he did it to save the world - he was willing to sacrifice himself and what is even more important - he didn´t care what would become of him. If he loose his humanity and in that case his brother who is the most important person to him. He only wanted to save the world - no matter what. Everyone believed it was the right thing to kill Lilith - even Dean said in the season 4 finale that Sam has to kill Lilith to stop her breaking the final seal. And if Dean had the opportunity he would have done the same before Zach cleared the things up for him.
So I think it is a bit easy to blame it all on Sam and to be so unforgiveable. He regrets it and is so full of guilt that he can´t look Bobby straight in the eyes after he told him what had happen. He takes every blaming and harsh words from Bobby and Dean without defending himself. He is totally lost right now and if Dean never trust him again it will destroy him completely. Everything went wrong after Dean went to hell. Sam felt guilty about it and couldn´t live without his brother. He was a drawning man you searched for a straw and Ruby reached it to him. If it wasn´t for her - he wouldn´t be alive anymore. So I can´t really blame him that he let himself be manipulated by her. And he was struggling all season long if what he was doing was right and what impact it would have on his relationsship with Dean and Bobby. I don´t think he was selfish and arrogant - he was even more selfless because he give it all for the greater good. Okay he didn´t listen to his brother when he should have but he is stubborn and thought he would do the right thing and save the world.

I don´t say that Dean should forgive him in the next few episodes because he suffers a lot. The way Sam let him down and treated him was brutaly hurtful and heartbreaking but with time going by and Sam trying to deserve the trust back I hope that at the end of this season they will be bonding again and that their bond will be stronger then before!

I think that they both deserve this because all they ever done (if right or wrong) - they did because they cared for the each other and wanted to protect the other one and sharing the burden they both put on their shoulders.

It is as Bobby said - don´t push Sam away - don´t do it like John did because it is to tough or he isn´t worth it - Sam is family and he would die for Dean in a second!

**Considering Disobedience** · 09-11-2009, 11:08 PM

Dean's not pissed at Sam for starting the apocolyps, Dean broke the first seal, he's not about to blame Sam for breaking the last one, Dean is pissed because Sam chose a DEMON over him. Dean BEGGED him to stay, and Sam turned his back on him and walked out. Blaming it on an addiction is taking the easy way out. Sam's a big boy, he made the choice to take the first drink of demon blood and is responsible for all of his choices/decisions that came after that.

sunny214 · 09-12-2009, 04:57 AM

Of course Sam is responsible for all his choices (demon blood included) and of course is he to blame for choosing Ruby over Dean. And he should be punished for this and it should not be easy for him to gain the trust back. All I am saying is that he shouldn´t be punished for the rest of his life. He hurt Dean big time and he turn his back on him - but only after Dean called him a monster. The one thing that Dean shouldn´t have be doing.
And what I meaned with the easy way is that Sam didn´t wake up one morning and said "Hey today I screw my live over and hurt my brother more then anyone ever have and kill that evil bitch Lilith just for fun."
He did all of this because he wanted to save the world!!! He begged Dean to trust him as he did his entired life and all Dean did was calling him a monster!
Was Sam right with drinking all this demonblood? Of course not!
Was Sam right to trust Ruby? Of course not - but even some of the audience fall for Ruby and trusted her.
Sam didn´t trust her right away - he had hit rock bottom after Dean went to hell. He didn´t wanted to live anymore and was more then ready to die in a fight.
Yes he could have turned to Bobby but Bobby was a mess himself. And maybe it was to hard for him - because Bobby reminded him of Dean and his failure to rescue Dean from hell.
Dean couldn´t live without Sam a few days - it was killing him inside and Sam had to live without him 4 months. And he felt guilty about it and couldn´t save him while nobody wanted to deal with him.
So he had nowhere to go and in his weakess moment Ruby saved him from dying and gave him something to live for. Killing Lilith for revenge.
And in that four months Ruby worked his him and manipulated him. She was there for him and helped him and with that win him over that he finally trusted her. He thought that when she wanted to kill him or to do harm to him - that would have been the best time for doing it - but she treated him good.
And then Dean came back - broken from hell - with enough issues by himself. Of course Dean had Problems after he got back from hell - show me one person who wouldn´t. So Sam had the feeling that he couldn´t rely on him then before hell. Or better said he tried to protect Dean with putting not so much burden on Deans shoulders.
Sam always was the one who believed everyone has good intentions in them - if you only search deep enough. And with Ruby helping him in his darkest hours he saw himself confirmed.
So when Dean came back from hell - the situation between Ruby and Sam had change. Dean, who hadn´t the same experience with her and who was always the suspicious one - could be more objective.
In one of the episodes even Dean fall for her and thanked her to rescue them both.
So when he told Sam he should get rid of her - because she was a demon, Sam couldn´t do it because he is not that type of person. Sam is to good at heart to get rid of someone who had save him from death and who was there for him in his darkest moments.
So I can´t really blame Sam for believing in Ruby and must pay my respect for her masterful manipulation.
Of course Sam should have listen to Dean more and included him more in to his actions. But Dean was four months away and didn´t know what was going on. And with Dean broken like this - Sam wanted to protect him and handle this all by himself - so that Dean would not be hurt more then he already had.
Dean on the other side tried to protect Sam for becoming a monster and strolling on the dark side to much.
Sam thought that to save the world - he has to give up everything. His life, his humanity, and his family. He thought that it would be worth it.
Dean would rather save Sam then the world and here is the key problem in all of this. That they both had the right reasons to do what they did - but they were working on two different problems.

**Captain Oatsocute** · 09-14-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~CountryBumpkin~ (View Post)

Dean's not pissed at Sam for starting the apocolyps, Dean broke the first seal, he's not about to blame Sam for breaking the last one, Dean is pissed because Sam chose a DEMON over him. Dean BEGGED him to stay, and Sam turned his back on him and walked out. Blaming it on an addiction is taking the easy way out. Sam's a big boy, he made the choice to take the first drink of demon blood and is responsible for all of his choices/decisions that came after that.

ITA Bee! I think Dean has every right to feel like he can't trust Sam again, but the most important thing he said was that he THINKS he can't! This means there's still hope that one day Sam can earn Dean's trust back again. Dean didn't take any pleasure in saying that to Sam and you could see it hurt him to admit that he's lost what he had with the one and only person in his life who he relied and trusted and pretty much kept him going all these years. I know they'll never be the same as they were before, but I hope they find a way to get back some of what they had and perhaps even come out even stronger!

**Considering Disobedience** · 09-14-2009, 03:27 PM

I agree Anita, things might never be the same, but I fully believe that with time, and effort, Sam can get that trust back, and who knows, the bond they build this time around, may in some ways be stronger than the first one. (that said, I still want Sam to suffer a bit more.

)

**sort of beautiful** · 09-14-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~CountryBumpkin~ (View Post)

Dean's not pissed at Sam for starting the apocolyps, Dean broke the first seal, he's not about to blame Sam for breaking the last one, Dean is pissed because Sam chose a DEMON over him. Dean BEGGED him to stay, and Sam turned his back on him and walked out. Blaming it on an addiction is taking the easy way out. Sam's a big boy, he made the choice to take the first drink of demon blood and is responsible for all of his choices/decisions that came after that.

Word to all of this. Dean has a right to be upset and I love him more for handling everything this way.

**Captain Oatsocute** · 09-14-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~CountryBumpkin~ (View Post)

I agree Anita, things might never be the same, but I fully believe that with time, and effort, Sam can get that trust back, and who knows, the bond they build this time around, may in some ways be stronger than the first one. (that said, I still want Sam to suffer a bit more.

)

Bee, you're so mean. But yes, ITA with you once again. I really want to see them come out of this so much stronger then before. Like they say, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger and I think this applies to these boys!

**Considering Disobedience** · 09-14-2009, 11:55 PM

what can I say?

**Captain Oatsocute** · 09-15-2009, 04:14 AM

Just don't ever run into that Samgirl who attacked my LJ. I'd be scared of what you might do to them!

**Considering Disobedience** · 09-15-2009, 08:52 AM

I admit it, I get viciously defensive when it comes to Dean.

and I've noticed that I have become the same way with Castiel, unless of course he's the one being mean to Dean.

**Captain Oatsocute** · 09-15-2009, 09:05 AM

^ Hee, hee! I don't blame you, when it comes to defending Dean's honor the claws will come out!

sunny214 · 09-15-2009, 01:05 PM

I believe that you all notice already -that this is the same with me only the person is Sam.
I love Dean and Sam equally but if someone hurts Sam or talk bad about him my motherinstinct clicks in and I become a lionmother who is fighting for his baby.

But I agree with all of you that Sam needs punishment for what he did in the last season. I am glad that Dean is not ready to forgive him - but I hope to see that change on some point in this season. A really slow realistic progress and in the end their bond will be stronger then before.

You could see that it wasn´t easy for Dean to tell Sammy all of this. And in some ways it hurt him to hurt Sam with his words but he had to think for himself here. So it was good that he was honest about it. It was the first step in the right direction - although it doesn´t look like it at first.

**Captain Oatsocute** · 09-15-2009, 01:41 PM

Sunny, that's right! No one bad mouths our boys for no good reason! !

Oh and I love you for understanding Dean's feelings in all this.

Quote:

You could see that it wasn´t easy for Dean to tell Sammy all of this. And in some ways it hurt him to hurt Sam with his words but he had to think for himself here. So it was good that he was honest about it. It was the first step in the right direction - although it doesn´t look like it at first

.

I couldn't agree with you more here! Well said! I only wish more Sam girls thought the same way as you!

sunny214 · 09-15-2009, 01:58 PM

Thank you Anita

I know this is a lot to asked in the Jensen board, but I wished that some of the Dean girls would understand Sams reasons, too. You don´t have to agree with him - (he made lots of mistakes) but just to realise why he did what he did and that he only had good intentions - and that you don´t want him to be punished for the rest of his life is all that I am asking for.

running back to the Jared board hiding...