Josh Holloway - Lost Rewatch: Because You Left, The Lie, Jughead {Nov. 9 - Nov. 15}

**Hawthorn** · 06-02-2009, 04:28 PM

What better way to help us through the long hiatus than rewatch the first 5 seasons of Lost in preparation to the final one?

Follow the schedule (if you can) and then come here to comment the old episodes with us!

June 1 - June 7: Pilot part I & II, Tabula Rasa, Walkabout
June 8 - June 14: White Rabbit, House Of The Rising Sun, The Moth, Confidence Man
June 15 - June 21: Solitary, Raised By Another, All the Best Cowboys Have Daddy Issues, Whatever the Case May Be
June 22 - June 28: Hearts And Minds, Special, Homecoming, Outlaws
June 29 - July 5: ...In Translation, Numbers, Deus Ex Machina
July 6 - July 12: Do Not Harm, The Greater Good, Born To Run
July 13 - July 19: Exodus part I & II, Man of Science, Man of Faith, Adrift
July 20 - July 26: Orientation, Everybody Hates Hugo, ...And Found, Abandoned
July 27 - August 2: The Other 48 Days, Collision, What Kate Did, The 23rd Psalm
August 3 - August 9: The Hunting Party, Fire + Water, The Long Con, One of Them
August 10 - August 16: Maternity Leave, The Whole Truth, Lockdown, Dave
August 17 - August 23: S.O.S., Two For The Road, ?
August 24 - August 30: Three Minutes, Live Together, Die Alone, A Tale of Two Cities, The Glass Ballerina
August 31 - September 6: Further Instructions, Every Man For Himself, The Cost Of Living, I Do
September 7 - September 13: Not In Portland, Flashes Before Your Eyes, Stranger In A Strange Land, Tricia Tanaka Is Dead
September 14 - September 20: Enter 77, Par Avion, The Man From Tallahassee, Exposé
September 21 - September 27: Left Behind, One Of Us, Catch-22
September 28 - October 4: D.O.C., The Brig, The Man Behind The Curtain
October 5 - October 11: Greatest Hits, Through The Looking Glass, The Beginning Of The End
October 12 - October 18: Confirmed Dead, The Economist, Eggtown
October 19 - October 25: The Constant, The Other Woman, Ji Yeon
October 26 - November 1: Meet Kevin Johnson, The Shape Of Things to Come, Something Nice Back Home
November 2 - November 8: Cabin Fever, There's No Place Like Home part I, There's No Place Like Home part II & III
November 9 - November 15: Because You Left, The Lie, Jughead
November 16 - November 22: Thankgiving Break
November 23 - November 29: The Little Prince, This Place Is Death
November 30 - December 6: 316, The Life And Death Of Jeremy Bentham, LaFleur
December 7 - December 13: Namaste, He's Our You, Whatever Happened, Happened
December 14 - December 20: Dead Is Dead, Some Like It Hoth, The Variable
December 21 - December 27: Christmas Break
December 28 - January 3: Follow The Leader, The Incident part I & II

(schedule by Lostpedia)

deej240z · 06-02-2009, 04:38 PM

Good grief! I don't have time to watch 4 hours in one week.

I fail.

**Hawthorn** · 06-02-2009, 04:42 PM

You can even just watch one episodes, or only check the Sawyer parts, or comment only about what you remember when you watched the episodes.
Freedom is the key word.

I don't know how I'll manage to watch 4 eps a week either, lol, but I'll try.

misteriosa · 06-02-2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deej240z (View Post)

Good grief! I don't have time to watch 4 hours in one week.

I fail.

My thoughts exactly. And that's without taking procrastination and laziness into consideration.

I'll try going by memory, watching some (Sawyer) clips, checking the caps etc.

TRoss · 06-02-2009, 05:26 PM

You know what I noticed watching the pilot again? Vincent is creepy. He was just sitting there watching Jack, Kate, and Charlie head off to their almost doom. I thought dogs were supposed to sense danger? He brings newly detoxed Charlie a fresh batch of heroin. And then he directs Sawyer, Juliet, and Kate to Rose and Bernard, who can tell them exactly where their fate awaits. Damn dog.

Anyway, it got me to thinking Vincent might actually have been the smoke monster in one of his various forms. He always seems to be showing up, dragging the Losties to their "destiny" aka his evil loophole plan (if indeed Esau and smokey are one in the same, or if good ole' Smokey's doing Esau's bidding). Just when I thought I came upon something new, I saw a reviewer come to this same conclusion after watching The Incident. It took me a rewatching of the Pilot to figure it out.

I guess that's what I get for hanging out primarily in character threads.

Then I found that Missing Pieces episode where Christian calls Vincent to him and tells him Jack is unconscious in the forest, and Vincent needs to go wake him up - he as work to do. WTF? (BTW Vincent seemed like a totally normal dog - can't imagine Smokey sniffing someone's open luggage and wagging his tail at Christian.) So is Christian from the Dark Side - aka Esau, aka Set, aka Satan - putting the pieces in place to help create the loophole, or is he on the side of Good, helping Jacob get his "people" in place? My money's on the Dark Side if they follow in the footsteps of Star Wars.

On the character side of things, the Pilot 1 & 2 and Tabula Rasa made me really miss S1 Kate. She was so much more involved in the story then, not just the triangle, and she didn't come across as closed off as she seems to me know - probably a result of having her play her choice in men close to the vest. Bah.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawthorn (View Post)

You can even just watch one episodes, or only check the Sawyer parts, or comment only about what you remember when you watched the episodes.
Freedom is the key word.

I don't know how I'll manage to watch 4 eps a week either, lol, but I'll try.

I say just watch the ones you really want to. I know there's going to be some I don't want to bother seeing again. *coughStrangerinaStrangeLandcough*

Anybody ever read that book? IIRC it's about an alien that comes down and sees the best and worst in mankind. Maybe it's a sign Jack will be taking Jacob's place. Isn't the name Jack supposed to be a derivative of Jacob too?

**Crystaline** · 06-02-2009, 05:35 PM

I already know I won't be willingly popping in my dvd's. I'll just catch the reruns on TV.

TRoss · 06-02-2009, 05:38 PM

That's a really loose definition of rewatch.

**Crystaline** · 06-02-2009, 05:40 PM

Lol. It's really an extreme case of laziness, tbh.

Killith · 06-02-2009, 07:05 PM

and I wanted to be first here

... but I had to leave just before Fran opened it... Thank you so much by the way

!!!
Love the OP

!!! You did good

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRoss (View Post)

You know what I noticed watching the pilot again? Vincent is creepy. He was just sitting there watching Jack, Kate, and Charlie head off to their almost doom. I thought dogs were supposed to sense danger? He brings newly detoxed Charlie a fresh batch of heroin. And then he directs Sawyer, Juliet, and Kate to Rose and Bernard, who can tell them exactly where their fate awaits. Damn dog.

That's what I thought after watching the Pilot again. i was surprised that Vincent was like that early on...

made me think of him in a whole new way... and it's like the dog is observing them... It's really creepy...

Quote:

Anyway, it got me to thinking Vincent might actually have been the smoke monster in one of his various forms. He always seems to be showing up, dragging the Losties to their "destiny" aka his evil loophole plan (if indeed Esau and smokey are one in the same, or if good ole' Smokey's doing Esau's bidding). Just when I thought I came upon something new, I saw a reviewer come to this same conclusion after watching The Incident. It took me a rewatching of the Pilot to figure it out.

I guess that's what I get for hanging out primarily in character threads.

That's really an interesting stand point. You might even be right... i'm not so sure if Vincent is really a formation of Smokey but it could be... It's weird thinking of him that way, but it is possible, IMO

Quote:

On the character side of things, the Pilot 1 & 2 and Tabula Rasa made me really miss S1 Kate. She was so much more involved in the story then, not just the triangle, and she didn't come across as closed off as she seems to me know - probably a result of having her play her choice in men close to the vest. Bah.

I miss season 1 Kate too... I guess she was so awesome back then because then they still had the leader role in mind for her... in the original script she was supposed to be a leader... I think that you still see that in S1 and then later her character just looses that role...

Quote:

Anybody ever read that book? IIRC it's about an alien that comes down and sees the best and worst in mankind. Maybe it's a sign Jack will be taking Jacob's place. Isn't the name Jack supposed to be a derivative of Jacob too?

I didn't read the book, but sounds interesting

I think Jack is more a derivative of John and then of Jacob

TRoss · 06-04-2009, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killith (View Post)

I miss season 1 Kate too... I guess she was so awesome back then because then they still had the leader role in mind for her... in the original script she was supposed to be a leader... I think that you still see that in S1 and then later her character just looses that role...

I think that's exactly what happened too. They didn't know what to do with her outside of the triangle. They could have worked her into the mythology early on like they did with Jack and his dad.

**Crystaline** · 06-04-2009, 09:15 PM

I think the triangle is Kate's story. I know it's annoying (believe me, I've bitched many a times), but I think it was a lot deeper than Kate just not being able to make a choice between JS. I felt it was more of a psychological thing pertaining to her issues with men, namely her father and step-father. How she viewed Wayne (bad) and Sam (good) is the way she categorized every man she was ever attracted to that bared any characteristics or similarities to them. That's why, imo, WKD is Kate's best episode. It really shed a lot of light on her pysche.

jessica1984 · 06-04-2009, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crystaline (View Post)

I think the triangle is Kate's story. I know it's annoying (believe me, I've bitched many a times), but I think it was a lot deeper than Kate just not being able to make a choice between JS. I felt it was more of a psychological thing pertaining to her issues with men, namely her father and step-father. How she viewed Wayne (bad) and Sam (good) is the way she categorized every man she was ever attracted to that bared any characteristics or similarities to them. That's why, imo, WKD is Kate's best episode. It really shed a lot of light on her pysche.

I get all this, I really do, but heading into the last season, with only 17 episodes left, shouldn't we have some kind of definitive idea on where this woman stands? Not only on where she stands on her men, but on her own issues and her own psyche and her own views of good/bad? Whenever we get an episode like WKD or I Do or WHH that shows glimmers of Kate realizing something, it's rescinded in the following episodes by something ambiguous. They can't do this anymore.

I know some people think they know where she stands and have known for a while, but believe me: but the majortity does not. Very, very few people can sit and say without a doubt that Kate loves/is in love with/chooses Sawyer and that she has moved past the good/bad sterotypical views of people she used to have and has finally seen the light, so to speak.

TRoss · 06-04-2009, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crystaline (View Post)

I think the triangle is Kate's story. I know it's annoying (believe me, I've bitched many a times), but I think it was a lot deeper than Kate just not being able to make a choice between JS. I felt it was more of a psychological thing pertaining to her issues with men, namely her father and step-father. How she viewed Wayne (bad) and Sam (good) is the way she categorized every man she was ever attracted to that bared any characteristics or similarities to them. That's why, imo, WKD is Kate's best episode. It really shed a lot of light on her pysche.

I really don't want the triangle to be Kate's only story. Meaning, the only manifestation of her "psychological" issues. If all her story really comes down to is, 'Who should I date, the bad boy or the good guy, because they'll define who I am,' then her character is looking for nothing more than outside validation.

But if by "psychological thing" you mean she struggles with her self-worth, and it happens to manifest itself in the men she chooses, then yeah, maybe it's more complex, and I think that's what they were going for in WKD (which I agree, is probably her best episode character-wise). But unlike Sawyer, Jack, Hurley, and others we haven't seen any significant change - she still seems to be torn between the two same guys five years down the road. Just when I thought they gave her something where she stood apart from the men in Aaron's storyline, it still came down to Sawyer anyway. Her motives weren't as humanitarian as they seemed - she kept Aaron because Sawyer wasn't there.

Sorry, didn't mean to go on a rant there, LOL. I was just kind of pissed when I watched the Pilot and Tabula Rasa - that her character didn't amount to more than that, and that they've written her keeping her feelings so close to the vest - not knowing how she feels, or what her motivations are - it's made her hard to identify with, for me at least.

**Crystaline** · 06-04-2009, 09:50 PM

I haven't had a single issue with Kate since she returned to the island. So I can't say I'm frustrated with her in any regard. She hasn't done anything, imo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRoss (View Post)

I really don't want the triangle to be Kate's only story. Meaning, the only manifestation of her "psychological" issues. If all her story really comes down to is, 'Who should I date, the bad boy or the good guy, because they'll define who I am,' then her character is looking for nothing more than outside validation.

But if by "psychological thing" you mean she struggles with her self-worth, and it happens to manifest itself in the men she chooses, then yeah, maybe it's more complex, and I think that's what they were going for in WKD (which I agree, is probably her best episode character-wise). But unlike Sawyer, Jack, Hurley, and others we haven't seen any significant change - she still seems to be torn between the two same guys five years down the road. Just when I thought they gave her something where she stood apart from the men in Aaron's storyline, it still came down to Sawyer anyway. Her motives weren't as humanitarian as they seemed - she kept Aaron because Sawyer wasn't there.

Sorry, didn't mean to go on a rant there, LOL. I was just kind of pissed when I watched the Pilot and Tabula Rasa - that her character didn't amount to more than that, and that they've written her keeping her feelings so close to the vest - not knowing how she feels, or what her motivations are - it's made her hard to identify with, for me at least.

That is what I mean. And although Kate's decision to keep Aaron was less than altruistic (and honestly, the entire storyline bored me to tears), I think in by being a mother to him, she got over a lot of those self-worth issues. She had this innocent little person that depended on her and required her to be a better individual and get her crap together. So I think she has changed for the better. And I haven't really seen any fickle behavior from Kate at all this season.

TRoss · 06-04-2009, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crystaline (View Post)

I haven't had a single issue with Kate since she returned to the island. So I can't say I'm frustrated with her in any regard. She hasn't done anything, imo.

I think that's the problem, she hasn't done anything.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not frustrated with her. I'm just having trouble sympathizing with her character, or even understanding where she's coming from, and it's beginning to lead to apathy for her character on my part. I was pissed because she used to be one of my favorites.

But we all have different tastes, and come from different points of view, so you may see it entirely differently (sounds like you do, LOL). Nothing wrong with that.

ETA - Sorry, I missed what you added to your post there. I hope you're right. That's what I thought when we were first introduced to the Aaron storyline for her. I don't think she's played the fickle card at all this season either. I'm pretty sure though they'll make her characters motivations and feelings much clearer now that it will be the last season. People are saying they expect it to mirror season one, so maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.