Hawthorn

This thread is to discuss spoilers and speculations about Sawyer in the future episodes of Lost. Please use the Spoiler Tag to talk about actual spoilers or speculations related to spoilers:

[sp]Your text[/sp*]

(without the asterisk at the end)

Episode 3x18 - ABC description


Episode 3x19 - ABC description


Episode 3x19 - promotional photos

Episode 3x20 - ABC description


Episode 3x21 - description

misteriosa

Thanks for starting the new thread!

Hawthorn

I remember them doing it twice in S1... House Of The Riding Sun doesn't start with Sun looking at Jin fishing, but at the same time paying attention to Jack and Kate talking about his tattoos? And maybe there is a parallel in Heart and Minds, because there is Sun saying to Kate "Have you ever lied to a man that you loved?", and it's the episode following WTCMB, plus there is the scene where Jack and Kate watch Jin and Sun walk by, he comments that they seem happy and gave Kate the guava seeds. Don't trust my memory, though.

I read Crystal on L-F saying that she has watched a new promo in which there is a shot of Kate, but I don't remember the other details she posted or if said if the promo was either only for D.O.C. or for the next 4 episodes as the previous one.
An awkward Skate scene is fine by me. A kiss? No.

misteriosa

At first I was joking about the sperm bank but right now I think an annonymous a donor could be the father.

With all the pregnancy theories we might get some clues about Kate's state. They might not be obvious but we should watch carefully.

I'd rather not have a skate scene. Maybe a look would be fine.
Definitely not a kiss. (That's what we were saying about sex and look how that turned out. )

Hawthorn

I would like to ask myself why I resisted more than 20 years from becoming an hardcore shipper, and I gave in with the more messy, complicated, frustrating couple in the history of TV. Damn.
I think there could be a Sun/Kate exchange


I really don't want to watch Kate and Sawyer deciding to be ok with a relationship that isn't undefined and is related to comfort and occasional sex. Not only it would destroy Kate's character for me, but I would lose part of my respect for Sawyer, I think. I really hope his "you just have to ask" means something different.

misteriosa

It's not the couple that I'm frustrated with but the writers.
I wonder which one of them came up with the brilliant idea of jealousy sex. He should be fired.

I wonder if we'll get to see Kate worried about the possibility of being pregnant or will she remain clueless until Juliet or Sun tell her something about it.

I hope that, too.
I don't know who they would try to please with such development, but I have no faith in the writers.

Hawthorn

The fact is, that is hard to remember the writers when I'm watching. That's why instead of cursing who put the jealousy sex in the episode, I screamed at my computer screen "oh please Kate, crying because Jack had dinner with Juliet? Do you realize that's pathetic?".
If they plan to explore this storyline, D.O.C. is the perfect episode.
Are they writing for the young target? Thinking that elements from teen dramas can be appealing? Because what we saw in the last episode is the confusion that a 15 years old has, not a woman who's 26. I hope we've seen the lowest point, because another mess like that one and I say Bye Bye. Sawyer and Kate are a beautiful couple, but how much progress have we seen after the "choice", in these 11 episodes? If they end the season with Kate still torn and the square in full force, I'm done. I'm done with seeing Sawyer madly in love and hopeless and Kate acting stupid.

misteriosa

They really cheapened their experience in the mini arc with this episode. Kate crying was the lowest pont for the triangle. It cannot get any worse.

We didn't have any progress since I Do. They don't write emotionl scenes for Sawyer and Kate anymore. Flirting and having sex is one of the things I love about skate but but only in combination with emotional. Maybe they messed them up intentionally.

I'm also done if they end with Kate still feeling torn or Kate being in a ''friends with benefits'' type of relationship with Sawyer.

Also, was the ping-pong game there to remind us that Sawyer cab beat Jack at something (Kate) just because Jack isn't even trying?

Hawthorn

We can only hope, because with these writers you never know. We've already seen a lot of times that respect for the characters and making sense are not priorities.
I've already said how much stupid I am. I shouldn't do this, but a part of me is hoping that this is a set-up for the big "Kate-snaps-out-of-it" moment, and I hope that what did the magic was Sawyer's word in the mixed tape scene. Jack in her mind was the good guy, the one you can count on, the kind of man that protect you and care about you, while Sawyer has no patience, too much anger in him, he doesn't care about her desire for good because he accept things as they are, and maybe this still scares her. But the last episode was a strong remainder of the fact that Jack can easily move on from her (he was ready to leave the island, he's always ready to act cold when she disappoints him, back at camp he hangs out with his new hot friend), while Sawyer, with so much baggage and bad habits, is the one waiting for her, standing by her side even if it hurts him. If Kate doesn't realize all of this with all she's experienced this season, how much Sawyer and Jack are different from the mental pictures she has of them, nothing can change things. In that case, Evi was right in her last interview: Kate loves the wrong man, but love is blind, so... I just want Sawyer far away from the situation while Jack waits for Kate to grow up and be ready for him, and Kate waits that Jack realizes she's enough for him.
Every time I say this and every time things prove me wrong, but how much low they can go with their female heroine?
I don't know how to see that scene. The pessimistic part of me, at first, thought that Sawyer's line about him finally beating Jack at something, means that he knows he can't win when the subject is Kate. Or maybe it's an hint to the future, because even if the episode makes it look like Kate wants Jack, in the ping pong game is Sawyer who wins? I never considered your take on it, interesting!

misteriosa

Even if she does realize that Sawyer is not Wayne, I need to hear some explanations from Kate. Otherwise, it'll just be my shipper perception of what the writers wanted to convey.
I'm not exactly on the same wavelength with them. They should spell Kate's feelings out for me. If there's one more scene from which I have to deduce, assume, suppose, imagine what the heck is going on in this triangle, I'll seriously give up.
I'm sick of scenes in which skaters and jaters interpret Kate's feelings completely differently just because the writers aren't bold enough to make a decision. Basically, both shipping are equally right and wrong at the same time.

Lets hope we won't find out this week.
But what can we expect if they told us that the triangle would never be over?

Hawthorn

They didn't make Kate say "I love you". I had my explanation back after I Do aired (the parallel between how many times she said those 3 words in her fake perfect life with Kevin, while there with Sawyer, she felt them but didn't say them because she saw them as unnecessary). Now, I know that she didn't answer verbally because in the following episodes, everything would have been up to interpretation again, back with the triangle. But I want words in the next 5 episodes: an "I love you" or "I don't love you" to Sawyer, or an admission that she loves Jack. I'm so tired that it could celebrate every one of those options, just... give me the answer.

P.S. I would like a lot more explanation from Kate about her actions and feelings, but I don't want to have high expectations. I can be ok with one clear, definitive, up-to-no-interpretation, line.

misteriosa

I'll take that.

Just don't leave me to decipher her facial expression once again.

It's really become ridiculous. Every conversation she has with Sawyer (and even Jack) finishes with her unable to come up with an answer.

Just looking at the most viewed pictures on L-M tells me how popular Sawyer is and that it would be stupid to kill him off.
Still I think it's entirely possible for it to happen (ep 20 is my guess).

Hawthorn

The mixtape scene is very similar to the fight in SIASL, with Kate speaking just with looks and facial expressions. I'm probably wrong, but I see a little improvement with Kate, because in both situations Sawyer called her on a reason for her actions that she didn't want to admit, but the first time she totally refused to aknowledge it and the only reaction she could manage was anger, while the last time she looked regretful and guilty, like she had finally faced the consequences of her actions and silences. At least, I hope. And Sawyer is very different too. In SIASL he's very "Sawyerish" in the way he confronts her. In C22, he's clear, calm and mature.
I agree that it's a possibility: they're going to resolve his bigger personal storyline, they've showed us "James", first with Kate and now with the group (at least a little). And Josh likes to joke about/mention Sawyer's death at every chance he gets. But... I can't see it happening. Because of his popularity, because he's only got 1 flashback this season, because they've put there several hints to a more active position in the politics on the island for him. Or maybe because I'm in denial.

misteriosa

That's what I thought.
She also managed to produce a sentence in this scene.
I could be wrong but when she said ''It is not like that'' she didn't look defensive or guilty but determined and sure of what she was saying. She looked regretful right after that but why if she was telling the truth?
I hope nobody asks Gregg for his opinion. It's hard to enough as it is.

Why did they use skate music during the sex scene? It didn't really fit.

I hope you're not.

Hawthorn

The ABC re-cap doesn't say anything really useful to clarify that scene? I didn't check it, I only saw reported the "stunned" part by bloonde or someone else on L-F, and usually they report the significant bits.

I agree on the music... maybe they used it to make the scene look less aggressive.

I'm very positive about Sawyer being alive in S4, but right now I'm getting pessimistic about the kiss happening after the treck. Lol, I always need to balance my optimism with some negative not-rational thought.