Josh Holloway - Josh as Sawyer in Lost S4: Fear our detective skills, foiler guys. *SPOILERS* - Page 3

misteriosa · 08-19-2007, 06:34 PM

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Originally Posted by Hawthorn (View Post)

Why they neglect poor Jin? He can stop Mickhail, talk in a language no one has figured out yet, find the most beautiful flowers ever in jungles of mystery and airports, wear purple and pink and still look manly, tell ghost stories, be a friend for Sawyer. And I didn't even mention his abs.

He does lots of nice things but he still isn't very much involved in the storyline. Do we really know how he feels about Sun's pregnancy? I understand that it is and should be Sun's plot, but it feels like they completely exclude him out of it.
Almost all their flashbacks tell us more about her than about him.
Some people say Sawyer's story is wrapped up but by their logic Jin's has been finished a long time ago.

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Right now, the most appealing aspect of this scenario is that I could finally see some of my favourite characters having scenes and storylines where Jack isn't going to pop up out of nowhere to steal screentime and importance. Yeppa.

It really sounds nice.

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If they kill Sun or Juliet before her (or instead of her), I'll be pissed.

We'll see. Do you still think Aaron is special or were they just fooling around when they made us think that?

**Hawthorn** · 08-19-2007, 07:00 PM

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Originally Posted by misteriosa (View Post)

He does lots of nice things but he still isn't very much involved in the storyline. Do we really know how he feels about Sun's pregnancy? I understand that it is and should be Sun's plot, but it feels like they completely exclude him out of it.

He was away male-bonding while they explored Sun's fears, then in the last episodes of the season they just had their 2 minutes of "sweet and protective Jin hugs worried and strong Sun" screentime, and that was it. I hope they've in store more involvement for Jin once he'll find out about the danger hanging over his wife.

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Almost all their flashbacks tell us more about her than about him.
Some people say Sawyer's story is wrapped up but by their logic Jin's has been finished a long time ago.

I know I'm in the minority with this opinion, but I don't believe in the idea that once you have told all about a character's backstory, his/her part in the series is "done". I think a good writer can create whatever scenario he wants to make his character grow, change, being "tested". Sayid's backstory is pretty much done but in no way I see him as uninteresting or "finished", in terms of action and development. Problem is, the writers here don't know what to do of their own character if there's a way to link them to some WTF revelation/moment.

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Do you still think Aaron is special or were they just fooling around when they made us think that?

At the end of S1, I thought the story in the finale mirrored the writers' intention: like the Losties were mislead in thinking the Others wanted Aaron, we were distracted by the baby just to make the revelation about Walt's importance more surprising. I don't know what to think now, I still haven't got the whole vaccine thing.

Off to bed now, 'night Misty! :-*

misteriosa · 08-19-2007, 07:17 PM

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Originally Posted by Hawthorn (View Post)

I know I'm in the minority with this opinion, but I don't believe in the idea that once you have told all about a character's backstory, his/her part in the series is "done". I think a good writer can create whatever scenario he wants to make his character grow, change, being "tested". Sayid's backstory is pretty much done but in no way I see him as uninteresting or "finished", in terms of action and development. Problem is, the writers here don't know what to do of their own character if there's a way to link them to some WTF revelation/moment.

I don't think you're in the minority here. I completely agree with you. I have no writing experience but I don't understand how a character can run out of storyline. It's so ridiculous.
The sad thing is these writers already used that excuse when they killed off Shannon. I think she was young so they didn't know what to do with her flashbacks.
They used the same reason to get rid of Charlie. Basically, they had nothing more to say about him.
I just think they are not very imaginative and creative writers.

Some fans tend to justify them and follow the same logic. For example, Sawyer's main goal in life was to find Cooper and kill him. Now that he accomplished it, there's nothing else left for him to do. WTF? You can't reduce characters to one particular characteristic or storyline.
Did Kate's story finish when she stopped running in EMFH or in I Do?

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At the end of S1, I thought the story in the finale mirrored the writers' intention: like the Losties were mislead in thinking the Others wanted Aaron, we were distracted by the baby just to make the revelation about Walt's importance more surprising. I don't know what to think now, I still haven't got the whole vaccine thing.

But how "special" was Walt?

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Off to bed now, 'night Misty! :-*

Good Night!

ETA: littiefitz posted this news on L-F
Watch with Kristin - We Always Knew Kristen Bell Was a Hero...

**Hawthorn** · 08-20-2007, 09:19 AM

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Originally Posted by misteriosa (View Post)

I don't think you're in the minority here. I completely agree with you. I have no writing experience but I don't understand how a character can run out of storyline. It's so ridiculous.
The sad thing is these writers already used that excuse when they killed off Shannon. I think she was young so they didn't know what to do with her flashbacks.
They used the same reason to get rid of Charlie. Basically, they had nothing more to say about him.
I just think they are not very imaginative and creative writers.

It's like they see a character and his story only through their main "theme" and the thing they were looking for in life. Shannon was finally loved, trusted and accepted by someone? Charlie finally succeeded in doing something great and take care of someone? They're done. I understand Redemption is one of the key aspect of this show, but this "mission accomplished - you can die" thing is absurd. Especially because with characters like Eko, Ana or Libby, they didn't even fulfill their "research". The evolution and growth of a character can touch so many aspects of a personality, as a writer you can explore and challenge them with an infinity of scenarios.

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Some fans tend to justify them and follow the same logic. For example, Sawyer's main goal in life was to find Cooper and kill him. Now that he accomplished it, there's nothing else left for him to do. WTF? You can't reduce characters to one particular characteristic or storyline.

The sad thing is that fans as much as the writers are more focussed on the bare facts than on the characters' internal universe of thoughts and feelinga and web of relationships with the other people on the show.

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But how "special" was Walt?

Who knows. We never found out what the Others really wanted from the kids. It felt weird to watch Walt appearing and giving "istructions" to Locke, but again, what did it mean? What was it? Perhaps just a way to remember us of Walt and Micheal if they managed to sign an agreement to have them back in S4.

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Watch with Kristin - We Always Knew Kristen Bell Was a Hero...

Seems like all the hit shows are fighting to have her. In can see her in Heroes more than in Lost, perhaps because the cast is younger...

P.S. Do you think I should send that e-mail to Kristin? Until today it seemed a good idea but now I'm thinking it's useless.

P.P.S. I'm a little sad today because of a news I've got, that's why I'm not my usual silly me, just wanted to say this in case my posts came out looking "cold" and lacking in excitement. It has nothing to do with the persons here.

ETA - rumors archived:
spoiler_expert: RUMORS ARCHIVE

misteriosa · 08-20-2007, 01:34 PM

My computer was used by so many people today and finally it's my turn.

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Originally Posted by Hawthorn (View Post)

The sad thing is that fans as much as the writers are more focussed on the bare facts than on the characters' internal universe of thoughts and feelinga and web of relationships with the other people on the show.

I hope that's mostly true with the online, mythology-oRiented fans.

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P.S. Do you think I should send that e-mail to Kristin? Until today it seemed a good idea but now I'm thinking it's useless.

You have nothing to lose if you send it, but if you think it's a complete waste of time then don't do it.

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P.P.S. I'm a little sad today because of a news I've got, that's why I'm not my usual silly me, just wanted to say this in case my posts came out looking "cold" and lacking in excitement. It has nothing to do with the persons here.

I hope it's not too serious or sad.

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ETA - rumors archived:
spoiler_expert: RUMORS ARCHIVE

It looks great.

Thanks for all the work you put into it.

**Hawthorn** · 08-20-2007, 02:05 PM

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Originally Posted by misteriosa (View Post)

You have nothing to lose if you send it, but if you think it's a complete waste of time then don't do it.

I sent an "hybrid": I took the text of my e-mail and managed to make it fit the 1000 characters of the online form "Ask Kristin", cutting off some lines here and there.

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I hope it's not too serious or sad.

A friend has received a very very sad news, nothing involving me.

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It looks great.

Thanks, as usual: don't think twice if you want to change/edit something, go ahead.

Re-reading the rumors, I've noticed that your IMDB guy has come back to post on the board and is promising new info.
His and The ODI's stuff gave me an headache.

misteriosa · 08-20-2007, 02:23 PM

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Originally Posted by Hawthorn (View Post)

I sent an "hybrid": I took the text of my e-mail and managed to make it fit the 1000 characters of the online form "Ask Kristin", cutting off some lines here and there.

Let's hope she answers. You've been pretty lucky lately.

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A friend has received a very very sad news, nothing involving me.

Sorry to hear that.

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Re-reading the rumors, I've noticed that your IMDB guy has come back to post on the board and is promising new info.
His and The ODI's stuff gave me an headache.

So, you're still checking out on him? I haven't read his posts in a while. Anything new?
Remember when he first started posting his "spoilers", he said one of the main characters would die, but didn't he exclude Sawyer and some others?
He does remind me of Lost_Expalined.

**Hawthorn** · 08-20-2007, 02:56 PM

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Originally Posted by misteriosa (View Post)

Let's hope she answers. You've been pretty lucky lately.

I don't have a lot of hope, but perhaps she'll have pity of me, lol.

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So, you're still checking out on him? I haven't read his posts in a while. Anything new?
Remember when he first started posting his "spoilers", he said one of the main characters would die, but didn't he exclude Sawyer and some others?
He does remind me of Lost_Expalined.

I was checking him today because I was copying and pasting into the lj entry all his spoilers, and saw some new posts submitted in August. The only new info he gave was the possible title for episode 4x02

Spoiler:

"The Orchid"

and he replied to some questions saying that:

Spoiler:

Paulo and Nikki are dead for good, Sawyer and Kate won't be together in the long run, Juliet doesn't die in S4, Sawyer got off the island with Kate and Jack, the first episode is Jack-centric and is a FF, the second ep. is about Michael.

BTW, his and The Odi's rumors are contradicting each other, so we know at least one of them is lying for sure. Right now, I don't believe either of them.

I don't remember if he excluded Sawyer... he said the only two going to die are Sayid and Bernard. I'll check again.

misteriosa · 08-20-2007, 03:54 PM

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Originally Posted by Hawthorn (View Post)

I was checking him today because I was copying and pasting into the lj entry all his spoilers, and saw some new posts submitted in August. The only new info he gave was the possible title for episode 4x02

Spoiler:

"The Orchid"

and he replied to some questions saying that:

Spoiler:

Paulo and Nikki are dead for good, Sawyer and Kate won't be together in the long run, Juliet doesn't die in S4, Sawyer got off the island with Kate and Jack, the first episode is Jack-centric and is a FF, the second ep. is about Michael.

I guess all his "spoilers" sound believable to me.

I only think Juliet could be gone soon.

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BTW, his and The Odi's rumors are contradicting each other, so we know at least one of them is lying for sure. Right now, I don't believe either of them.

Some are contradicting, but most rumours about Sawyer and Kate seem to match.

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I don't remember if he excluded Sawyer... he said the only two going to die are Sayid and Bernard. I'll check again.

I remember now.
There was some guy over there who named some of the characters who weren't on the death list. I think Sawyer was one of them.

OT: I rewatched The Long Con and found this conversation indicative

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Hurley: Hold it, stop! Do you hear that!
Radio. That was the... Duke Ellington... orchestra featuring... up next on WXO, the Glen Miller Orchestra with Moonlight Serenade.
Hurley: Whoa, you hear how clear that is? It's got to be close, right?
Sayid: Radio waves at this frequency bounce off the ionosphere. They can travel thousands of miles. It could be coming from anywhere.
Hurley: Or, any time. Just kidding, dude.

Time travelling sucks.

**Hawthorn** · 08-20-2007, 04:11 PM

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Originally Posted by misteriosa (View Post)

I guess all his "spoilers" sound believable to me.

They do because every foiler (with a brain) tries to put into his/her stuff scenarios who often are the most logical consequence to what seen in the previous episodes. Not to mention they add podcast statements, and real spoilers taken by the legit sources to make the mix more convincing.
I'll trust them when I see Kristin and Ausiello have in their columns the same stuff released by the rumors guys, not the other way around.
They also try to have their back covered saying that anything could happen to make the writers re-write some storylines.

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Some are contradicting, but most rumours about Sawyer and Kate seem to match.

True, but as I said above, after the finale (Jack and Kate meeting in the future, Sawyer and Kate's fight, and Jack's ILY), what Major_Spoilers wrote is just the most logical scenario.

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Time travelling sucks.

It does, but I'm resigned to it. Too many hints to still think it might not happen. Sigh.

misteriosa · 08-20-2007, 04:17 PM

One of my worst fears right now is that they'll make Sawyer completely dark and have him do something terrible to the point that Kate won't even think about attending his funeral in the FF.
That's why I hope he's on the island where his "home" is.

**Hawthorn** · 08-20-2007, 04:36 PM

I stll can't see them going there, although nothing is going to surprise me after what I've seen in the second part of S3. Take Locke: yes, they went very far away with him, but the signs that he was ready to do pretty much anything for the island and to follow his personal agenda were there since S1, back when he was the "Losties guru". With Sawyer we have the opposite: even when he acts really bad there is a reason you can relate to/symphatize with, and they manage to make you see that his heart isn't dark.

About the person in the coffin, I can't explain why it's no Sawyer to me. It's just a sensation. Perhaps it's the fact that according to what we have heard so far, S4 may cover the time between the S3 finale and what we've seen in the FF, so the person in the coffin is already decided won't be in the flashforwards of S5 and S6, and it's hard for me to think they've already taken such a decision about one of their most popular Losties.

misteriosa · 08-20-2007, 05:10 PM

I think they could go there with Sawyer because he's the only person in this triangle that has been consistent and completely devoted tothe person he loves. I don't think the writers expected such a reaction. On the contrary, they probably wished for fans to "root" for Jack, especially after the mini-arc. I'm not sure how intentional the way they wrote Sawyer was. Maybe they just didn't know what to do with him at the beach so they kept showing how much he loved and missed Kate. Whatever they wanted to do, Sawyer definitey, came out looking well in that whole mess. i don't see how anyone can object to his behaviour.

The catch, the trouble lies in Jack and Kate are Adam and Eve theory. I think that's where they are going. If they plan on the story to heavily revolve around those two in the future (more so than before) they would probably like the audience to root for them. It seems to me that too many people love Sawyer and would resent him being on the losing side.
So, the way to make it happen could be by making him go completely bad, which quite a few fans might like, or by killing him off. Both solutions could be justifications for Kate and Jack getting together.

Of course I'd hate for that to happen and hope they simply make Kate say she wants Jack if that's what their plan is. But they might not because I can't see people caring for those who hurt Sawyer.

What worries me ist that most fans (not all) seem to agree that Michael is the person in the coffin. Harold seems to share that opinion. He talked about the teenage son at the Comic Con and some interviews. (He probably visited some Lost boards

.)
So, he's openly speaking about this great mystery. Why didn't the producers warn him about it, why do they allow him to talk about such a big finale question?

Also, the fact that this person is dead doesn't men he/she won't get a FF. I think we'll see both Kate's and Jack's FF about how they got to where we saw them during that point in future. The dead person could also get a FF and we'd see what they did in the future before they died. In fact, IMO most FFs, including those in season 5 will probably be set before the period shown in season 3 finale.
I think we'll see them travelling back on the island and in time in season 6. I predict Kate agreeing to do so soon after her encounter with jack at the airport.

It sounds like a mess in my head too.

When is Kristin's colum up?

**Hawthorn** · 08-20-2007, 05:55 PM

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Originally Posted by misteriosa (View Post)

I think they could go there with Sawyer because he's the only person in this triangle that has been consistent and completely devoted tothe person he loves. I don't think the writers expected such a reaction. On the contrary, they probably wished for fans to "root" for Jack, especially after the mini-arc. I'm not sure how intentional the way they wrote Sawyer was. Maybe they just didn't know what to do with him at the beach so they kept showing how much he loved and missed Kate. Whatever they wanted to do, Sawyer definitey, came out looking well in that whole mess. i don't see how anyone can object to his behaviour.

But they didn't show Sawyer's feelings only in S3, where I can see the writers needing to make him "do something" other than the comic relief at the beach. Sawyer has been gravitating around Kate forever, doing little or big gesture for her or because of her. Considering this show has no problem in thwoing clichès in the storylines, I can picture them making him sacrifice for her (I Do version 2.0) more than them bringing him to the point of harm her. How can they expect us to root for Jack? Because we should understand the "trauma" he experienced watching Kate and Sawyer together? Exactly when did we get the proof of his neverending love for Kate? Perhaps they wanted us to root for Kate, who, poor girl, is stuck with the second best and heartbroken over her "other beau" using the spoon with her saliva to have dinner with Juliet. That plan is more likely to have been in the head of the writers. But these are the same writers who said Ana lost a lot of chances to be accepted by the audience because of the way she treated a popular character like Sawyer. So, 1 season later, they forgot their own opinion, thinking that the consequences of hurting Sawyer do not apply to a leading character like Kate? I don't know where I'm going with this, it doesn't make sense, from whatever perspective you consider things. How can professional TV writers ignore the most predictable human reactions?! How they thought we would judge a mess like Catch-22, compared with Sawyer being worried sick while he was waiting for her return?!

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The catch, the trouble lies in Jack and Kate are Adam and Eve theory. I think that's where they are going. If they plan on the story to heavily revolve around those two in the future (more so than before) they would probably like the audience to root for them. It seems to me that too many people love Sawyer and would resent him being on the losing side.
So, the way to make it happen could be by making him go completely bad, which quite a few fans might like, or by killing him off. Both solutions could be justifications for Kate and Jack getting together.

Then kill him off. I prefer that to see him used and sent OOC. And to justify Jate... URGH!!!

If the Adam and Eve storyline is there since day 1, why expanding Skate and Sawyer's feelings for Kate so much and then have to do such a rushed backtracking? Idiots.

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What worries me ist that most fans (not all) seem to agree that Michael is the person in the coffin. Harold seems to share that opinion. He talked about the teenage son at the Comic Con and some interviews. (He probably visited some Lost boards

.)
So, he's openly speaking about this great mystery. Why didn't the producers warn him about it, why do they allow him to talk about such a big finale question?

Well, Dominic talked about Charlie's death and Josh said the outcome of the Sawyer/Cooper meeting wouldn't be good, so... Perhaps they simply didn't say anything to Harold to keep him in the dark, and he's just telling his speculations.

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Also, the fact that this person is dead doesn't men he/she won't get a FF. I think we'll see both Kate's and Jack's FF about how they got to where we saw them during that point in future. The dead person could also get a FF and we'd see what they did in the future before they died. In fact, IMO most FFs, including those in season 5 will probably be set before the period shown in season 3 finale.
I think we'll see them travelling back on the island and in time in season 6. I predict Kate agreeing to do so soon after her encounter with jack at the airport.

I already hate this timeline scenario. HATE. IT.

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When is Kristin's colum up?

It's up.

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Francesca in Dallas: How much longer will the Tater Tops voting be going on?
We've had such an amazing response this year, we're extending it at least another week, so be sure to go and vote for your favorites! This is the only chance you get to tell your faves how much you love them before the Emmy voters go and screw it all up.

Marian in Tallahassee, Florida: Lost?
Jorge Garcia's Island Blog came and went so fast it didn't even say goodbye. (He's still posting, but Lost dispatches are apparently verboten.)

That's all. Sigh.

misteriosa · 08-20-2007, 06:38 PM

I understand what you're saying about Sawyer and tha way they've written him. I think he's sort of "out of control" for them when it comes to fans's reaction. Most people saw nothing wrong with Damon's statement at the ComicCon, but I think it was, at least partially, an expression of frustration with the way Sawyer's character is perceived by the audience. Remember when we had that conversation about what they were trying to do with Sawyer in the season finale. Well, Damon's "joke" in a way confirmed my suspicions. They would like him to be seen as more "evil", the bad guy, especially in comparison to Jack (their her) and in the triangle. They just can't seem to make it happen.
I read a few weeks ago that Damon once said the tree frog scene was written to see how many people would turn against Sawyer after that. Or something similar.
If he really said that then I can see them testing the level of Sawyer love and trying to see if it has a limit. I think his killing Tom, and strangling Cooper, to certain event, were both tests for the audience, not exclusively but to a certain degree yes. It seems to me that Sawyer passed those exams.

Honestly, I wouldn't fear these horrible scenarios I come up with if it weren't for the triangle. For some reason they won't or can't let go of Jack as the hero of Lost(what we saw in FF is not how Jack will end up). Sawyer has been presented as his opponent and he, the underdog, the wrong guy, the killer, the selfish con man who had a brief "good fase" but is now back in his original dark (or even darker) head space, still gets more love than the honest, good, helping, doctor. No matter how they try to represent them we keep rooting for Sawyer.
Kate's "He'd never do that for you" was IMO a cheap trick of trying to pass Jack as the noble one of the two. It didn't work with me.

I think it's funny Tater Tops are prolonged. Some people's fingers might get hurt.

Apparently there are some commercials being shown on TV for a new show with the actress who plays Penny. I don't know anything else about it. I might check IMDB.