Josh Holloway - Josh in 4x13 - There's No Place Like Home (Part 2 & 3): Lost Episode Discussion - Page 3

**Hawthorn** · 05-30-2008, 11:42 AM

I finally watched the episode. I'm always late to the party, I know.

Let's start saying that:

Season 4 finale > Season 3 finale

I unexpectedly enjoyed it. And I have to admit I went emo too, too many times during it: when Sun told Michael she was pregnant (because I knew Michael would die later on and this instead of making me prepared for the scenes, made me more emotional

); when Michael told Jin that he was a father now, and to get off the boat with his wife and child; when Sawyer jumped off (I replayed the scene at least 10 times and every time it hit me harder); Sun's screams when the freighter exploded and she was begging them to go back for Jin; the goodbye between Locke and Ben, when Ben passed him the torch of island leader (it got to me, I don't why... awww Locke, even Ben was cool - although I won't forgive him his coldness about the destiny of the people on the boat); Sawyer's look when Juliet made him notice the freighter in flames; Desmond's expression when the guy on the rescue boat called for "Mrs. Widmore" and she appeared from above...
I even liked small moments like the Miles/Daniel/Charlotte scene, and the Daniel/Charlotte goodbye. I want to know where is Daniel, and if Jin is alive... it seems impossible he survived the explosion but I'm holding out hope for what Kristin said (though I haven't read her re-cap yet, so don't know if she confirmed the death today).
And I loved basically everyone (Sayid, Kate, badass!Sun, Juliet wanting to be sure everyone was safe before she thought about her own rescue, Frank and the Frank/Sawyer moments, Richard's "Welcome home, John"...).

Minus Jack.
I don't know if right now I hate him more for saying in Something Nice Back Home that Sawyer "chose" to stay after he had witnessed his self-sacrifice, or if it was stronger the gut reaction I had when, inside the rubber boat, he started saying "Its okay, it's okay".

The bad stuff:
- The Frozen Donkey Wheel: I don't mind sci-fi, I can take time travel and hardcore phisycs, but moving the island with a wheel? Not. It was just as lame as I expected it to be, unfortunately.
- Keamy being Patchy 2.0. (too much of a deja-vu from last season finale)
- The whole lying thing, to protect the people left behind. Why the Losties agreed to lie when Jack told them to do it, but didn't believe Locke, after they saw the island disappear in front of their eyes, and Hurley pointed out how that was exacly what John has said he would do?

- Claire's apparition: what was that? A dream? Kate's subconscious? Some evil force taking Claire's form to prevent aaron to be brought back to the island? It was just confusing, especially knowing that we won't see Claire again until S6.

Thanks for all the review bits, Misty!

I was smiling reading them.

and I didn't picked up that the voice of the person calling Kate in her dream was Sawyer's..! I need to go haunt the audio clip for that, if there is one around.

Last thing: I read a TV Guide interview with Harold on Tv Guide - he's not happy about what they did with his character, and I agree with him about that. His redemption path shouldn't have ended like that, doing the right thing once and then die, with Christian playing Jacob's messanger and telling him that he could "go" at that point. Why all the hype over Harold's return if Micheal stayed only for 6 episodes? Maybe he isn't wrong when suggesting that the writers could've decided to kill Micheal off because it was what many fans wanted to see, the punishment.

misteriosa · 05-30-2008, 11:59 AM

I'm glad you liked the episode.

There's an audio of the whispers and some believe it's Locke's voice. I think a smaller group thinks it's Sawyer. Screencaps and Easter Eggs: Reversed phone message for Kate (*updated*)

I've just read Harold's interview - Harold Perrineau Dishes on his Lost Exit (Again) - Celebrity and Entertainment News | TVGuide.com
He has every right to feel disappointed. That wasn't a redemption storyline. No way. It could've been handled so much better.

**Hawthorn** · 05-30-2008, 12:19 PM

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Originally Posted by misteriosa (View Post)

I'm glad you liked the episode.

It didn't satisfy me about some things (as I mentioned, the whole O6 lying storyline, Michael's death, the way Ben moved the island..), but overall if felt way more emotional than last year finale, to me at least. There is also all the bias that comes from seeing my favorite characters get some nice moments (Sawyer, Sun... and I think Locke wasn't treated as badly as I feared, although I have to see how the whole death part plays out, the whole resurrection idea doesn't sit well with me).

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There's an audio of the whispers and some believe it's Locke's voice. I think a smaller group thinks it's Sawyer. Screencaps and Easter Eggs: Reversed phone message for Kate (*updated*)

Ohhh, thabnk! To think I checked DarkUFO and didn't see that.

It sounds like Locke's voice to me. It would make perfect sense for Kate to dream about Locke telling her to go back, because we know he has already talked to her about it.

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I've just read Harold's interview - Harold Perrineau Dishes on his Lost Exit (Again) - Celebrity and Entertainment News | TVGuide.com
He has every right to feel disappointed. That wasn't a redemption storyline. No way. It could've been handled so much better.

I agree, that's why I think Harold could be right theorizing they decided to kill him off after they had signed the contract and announced his return, because of the feedback from the fans. I felt for him in the episode, but at the same time hated the whole storyline they gave to his character.

deej240z · 05-30-2008, 01:22 PM

Hmmm, the backwards audio doesn't sound like either Locke or Sawyer. I vote Richard or Ben, because you know it's all about Ben.

So, I finished watching and it was pretty good finale. Didn't like the lack of Sawyer.

The only time it resonated emotionally for me was when the freighter blew and Sun went ballistic. That choked me up.

Pen/Des kiss was so much better than Kate/Sawyer. They gave plenty of time to P/D whereas S/K got short changed. Pfft.

the sci-fi elements of this show need to be shoved back into the background. All this silliness is making me laugh. Like the donkey wheel. Oy.

misteriosa · 05-30-2008, 01:47 PM

I'm probably the only person who's not really feeling Desmond and Penny.

Their kiss was too "fake" for my taste.

I agree about the sci-fi aspect of the show. It sucks.
They should go back to the characters.

**Hawthorn** · 05-30-2008, 01:50 PM

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Originally Posted by deej240z (View Post)

Hmmm, the backwards audio doesn't sound like either Locke or Sawyer. I vote Richard or Ben, because you know it's all about Ben.

I checked both the audio clips in the link Misty put above, and in the first one didn't recognize the voice, buit in the second clip (where you can listen first to the original bit, then to the voice played forward, it seems like Locke to me, especially when the man says the word "late".

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So, I finished watching and it was pretty good finale. Didn't like the lack of Sawyer.

The only time it resonated emotionally for me was when the freighter blew and Sun went ballistic. That choked me up.

That moment was good, Sun's screams were heartbreaking.

It was also good to see her no-BS exchange with Widmore.
This badass tranformation of her character is probably one of the most juicy character development seen in S4.

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Pen/Des kiss was so much better than Kate/Sawyer. They gave plenty of time to P/D whereas S/K got short changed. Pfft.

I agree about the time dedicated to the scene, but the situations were so different. The Skate kiss wasn't a big deal in itself, but the whole scene made it very significant imo. Those two are the only couples who kiss in the episode (besides Charlotte's pek on Daniel's cheek)... if one wants to take the risk to give credit to D&C, it was a cool comparison to have Pes and Penny reunite after years... just when Sawyer and Kate get separated, for years as well.

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the sci-fi elements of this show need to be shoved back into the background. All this silliness is making me laugh. Like the donkey wheel. Oy.

The wheel was one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen, I agree with you. Michael Emerson did a good job in the scene, but nothing could've saved such a lame visual. Out of all the possible sci-fi craziness out there, is it possible they couldn't think of anything that had more dignity than turning a wheel? -_-

misteriosa · 05-30-2008, 01:59 PM

Please tell me you also thought the scene with Kate checking up on Jack was awkward and clumsy. Those two have no chemistry whatsoever.

Lostwith_Sawyer · 05-30-2008, 02:03 PM

I don't know if you guys see this vid:

Lostchile: ¡Increibles finales alternativos!

But I was ...............shocked!!!

Thank God & Jacob it was not him....

**Hawthorn** · 05-30-2008, 02:09 PM

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Originally Posted by misteriosa (View Post)

Please tell me you also thought the scene with Kate checking up on Jack was awkward and clumsy. Those two have no chemistry whatsoever.

You should know I agree with you, that goes without saying.

I honestly didn't even get the purpose, is was there to have Sawyer see it, ok, so..? I mean, from the way the helicopter moment played out, Sawyer didn't need that as "additional" motivation, especially considering he had decided to leave with her already. Was there to tell us that he's serene in letting her go because he knows she has Jack and he will take care of her?

Oh, and btw the Penny/Desmond kiss didn't make a lot for me (it made me think about Jack and Rose in Titanic, you know, when she gets back into the boat because she didn't want to leave him

), but I loved Desmond's expression when he realizes there is Penny on board, aww.

Two other things I found pointless

:
- Rose being all snarky with Miles- I mean, **** is going down, people are running around to leave, Daniel is exhausted... and Rose has time to make jokes about peanuts like it was a boring day of S1 on the beach? O_o
- Ben giving the Orchid video to Locke to stop him asking questions, because he was busy, had stuff to take care of and couldn't waste time replying to his curiosities.

ETA - Aly, sorry! I didn't see your post before hitting the submit button, I'm such a slow typer.

I knew about the alternate ending scenes aired during Good Morning America, haven't watched the clip though, I don't want to see Sawyer in the coffin, even if it's a fake shot, done only to throw off cast and crew and prevent spoiler leaking.

misteriosa · 05-30-2008, 02:32 PM

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Originally Posted by Hawthorn (View Post)

You should know I agree with you, that goes without saying.

I honestly didn't even get the purpose, is was there to have Sawyer see it, ok, so..? I mean, from the way the helicopter moment played out, Sawyer didn't need that as "additional" motivation, especially considering he had decided to leave with her already. Was there to tell us that he's serene in letting her go because he knows she has Jack and he will take care of her?

Thanks for agreeing with me. It's a shame so many scenes are wasted on a couple played by two actors who just don't click and generate any kind of sexual or romantic feelings.

I don't know what the exact intention was, but Darlton did say that Sawyer staying would be a decision based on the axis of the traingle. They made a point to show Kate was glad to see Sawyer and happy he decided to leave the island. Her checking up on Jack could be ambiguous as always - care or love? Sawyer obviously noticed it and I'm sure it was supposed to play at least some part in his decision to jump. Then again, they also showed Jack witnessing the kiss, seeing Kate sad and assuring her they would go back for Sawyer. She looked at Jack like she resented him not jumping at one point, or so it seemed. We also saw her looking at the ocean, where the island once was. I took it as her way of grieving for Sawyer. I wish they'd let the moment last some more and not jump to Jack's stupid lying plan.

What I'm trying to say is - Long Live The Triangle.

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Oh, and btw the Penny/Desmond kiss didn't make a lot for me (it made me think about Jack and Rose in Titanic, you know, when she gets back into the boat because she didn't want to leave him

), but I loved Desmond's expression when he realizes there is Penny on board, aww.

It's funny, but both kisses were actually mostly about us, or just me, sympathising with the male part of the couples and feeling for them.

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Two other things I found pointless

:
- Rose being all snarky with Miles- I mean, **** is going down, people are running around to leave, Daniel is exhausted... and Rose has time to make jokes about peanuts like it was a boring day of S1 on the beach? O_o
- Ben giving the Orchid video to Locke to stop him asking questions, because he was busy, had stuff to take care of and couldn't waste time replying to his curiosities.

Those are classical Lost "comedy" moments which I've always hated. It takes something away from dramatic storylines.

Aly, Sawyer was one of my guesses for the man in the coffin, but it still sucked actually seeing him inside of the casket.

deej240z · 05-30-2008, 02:33 PM

He looked mighty good though. Like in Confidence Man. Even the suit looked similar.

I loved what they said at the end. No one named Sawyer. No no no. And Diane Sawyer is going I'm too sensitive.

**Hawthorn** · 05-30-2008, 03:05 PM

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Originally Posted by misteriosa (View Post)

Thanks for agreeing with me. It's a shame so many scenes are wasted on a couple played by two actors who just don't click and generate any kind of sexual or romantic feelings.

Especially in a show that has no problem in dropping storylines if they don't think they play out good on screen. Jack and Kate as a romantic couple never generated any on screen spark, and with this I include even their "glory days" of S1.

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I don't know what the exact intention was, but Darlton did say that Sawyer staying would be a decision based on the axis of the traingle. They made a point to show Kate was glad to see Sawyer and happy he decided to leave the island. Her checking up on Jack could be ambiguous as always - care or love? Sawyer obviously noticed it and I'm sure it was supposed to play at least some part in his decision to jump. Then again, they also showed Jack witnessing the kiss, seeing Kate sad and assuring her they would go back for Sawyer. She looked at Jack like she resented him not jumping at one point, or so it seemed. We also saw her looking at the ocean, where the island once was. I took it as her way of grieving for Sawyer. I wish they'd let the moment last some more and not jump to Jack's stupid lying plan.

What I'm trying to say is - Long Live The Triangle.

Fantastic.

If I hadn't been so traumatized by the way they've handled romance in the past, and wrote scenes that I read in a way, and two episodes later were given a different meaning from my interpretation, I would say the finale was pretty positive positive on the Skate front. The only nice scene Jack and Kate got was her checking his wound, and it was mostly about Sawyer witnessing the moment.
Even at the end of the whole rescue thing, when they finally land, we see Kate looking out at the ocean with Aaron in her arms, and it's Jack who goes to her and led her away.

What I haven't got yet if it's Kate believes Sawyer is dead, or simply "gone" because they have no idea what happened to the island. I would like to know what Locke told her when he "visited".

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It's funny, but both kisses were actually mostly about us, or just me, sympathising with the male part of the couples and feeling for them.

No, it was the same for me, too. the fact is, they put all the drama on the men, lol, you can't object about that. Desmond just risked to die, and he he went through so much in all those years away from Penelope - she's also a guest star, we don't know al that much about her. And Sawyer, he was just about to make a sacrifice for Kate and his friends before kissing her. I think it's natural to feel more for the male side in those two situations.

Des looked almost "crazy" in this cap, but it killed me

:
Lost Photo Gallery - 4x13: There's No Place Like Home (Part 2) Screen Captures/4finale-0918

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Those are classical Lost "comedy" moments which I've always hated. It takes something away from dramatic storylines.

It's because they throw them in even when they have no purpose, or it doesn't make sense for the character to be funny in that moment - Sawyer making a joke about which bad guys she killed to break the tension was in character, Rose taking time to pwn Miles about peanut was not.

Deej and Misty, be honest because you know me, can I watch the Sawyer in the coffin clip without freaking out?
Consider I can't take Sawyer's death not even in fanfictions or too detailed speculations.

Also: I think both Sawyer and Desmond will change shirts in S5 (Sawyer has to, he lost his in the ocean, lol). That's serious business.

misteriosa · 05-30-2008, 03:23 PM

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Originally Posted by Hawthorn (View Post)

What I haven't got yet if it's Kate believes Sawyer is dead, or simply "gone" because they have no idea what happened to the island. I would like to know what Locke told her when he "visited".

I don't know what Kate think about the people left behind, including Sawyer. So far, the writers made it seem like the O6 were lying to protect those who stayed, but since very little about this storyline makes sense, I guess there's still enough room for changes and ambiguities. Maybe she thought Sawyer died, but if Locke visited her she should know whether he's alive or not.
The ABC recap didn't say anything about it. It only said that Sawyer doesn't know whether Kate is safe or not after he sees the explosion.

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Des looked almost "crazy" in this cap, but it killed me

:
Lost Photo Gallery - 4x13: There's No Place Like Home (Part 2) Screen Captures/4finale-0918

He does look a bit nuts and almost as bug-eyed as Ben.

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It's because they throw them in even when they have no purpose, or it doesn't make sense for the character to be funny in that moment - Sawyer making a joke about which bad guys she killed to break the tension was in character, Rose taking time to pwn Miles about peanut was not.

But the only thing Rose has been doing lately is smacking people because teh writers think it's cool. I believe it started with season 3 finale and her talk to Jack. Remember when she was a serious, deep although character back in season 1? Now she's a comic relief.

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Deej and Misty, be honest because you know me, can I watch the Sawyer in the coffin clip without freaking out?
Consider I can't take Sawyer's death not even in fanfictions or too detailed speculations.

It's not that bad. He makes a pretty corpse.

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Also: I think both Sawyer and Desmond will change shirts in S5 (Sawyer has to, he lost his in the ocean, lol). That's serious business.

It's very serious. I'd love somthing white, black, very blue, maybe even a lovely bright coloured plaid shirt again. We'll see.

deej240z · 05-30-2008, 03:34 PM

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Originally Posted by Hawthorn (View Post)

What I haven't got yet if it's Kate believes Sawyer is dead, or simply "gone" because they have no idea what happened to the island. I would like to know what Locke told her when he "visited".

Obviously not that Sawyer was alive. Or did he? </jj abrams

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Deej and Misty, be honest because you know me, can I watch the Sawyer in the coffin clip without freaking out?
Consider I can't take Sawyer's death not even in fanfictions or too detailed speculations.

I didn't think it was so bad. He was soooo purdy in his suit.

Now, if that were the actual scene in the show... I would have SCREAMED!

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Also: I think both Sawyer and Desmond will change shirts in S5 (Sawyer has to, he lost his in the ocean, lol). That's serious business.

The island obviously demands that Sawyer go nekkid. What the island wants, the island eventually gets.

About Locke being dead and they need to bring him back to the island: Maybe that's how Locke will resurrect. Like Christian. He can go around the island scaring people into doing things.

Maybe he will be the new Jacob?

**Hawthorn** · 05-30-2008, 03:43 PM

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Originally Posted by misteriosa (View Post)

The ABC recap didn't say anything about it. It only said that Sawyer doesn't know whether Kate is safe or not after he sees the explosion.

did it say anything about Jin? I haven't read around at all today, if Jin is dead I would like the writers to tell it now, if they leave the fans to speculate about him being still alive for 8 months for no reason, I'm going to be pissed.

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But the only thing Rose has been doing lately is smacking people because teh writers think it's cool. I believe it started with season 3 finale and her talk to Jack. Remember when she was a serious, deep although character back in season 1? Now she's a comic relief.

The S3 fianle line to Jack was awesome, but they destroyed the whole thing making Rose suggest a "sexy reward" for Charlie to Claire in the S4 premiere, when he was, you know, already dead at the bottom of the ocean. I thought they had learnt after that major gaffe.

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It's not that bad. He makes a pretty corpse.

...
I don't know if I can do it.

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It's very serious. I'd love somthing white, black, very blue, maybe even a lovely bright coloured plaid shirt again. We'll see.

I think we can forget about white or a light blue because they would look too dirty too quickly (although Kate has had white/beige clothes). I would love another black shirt, *if* they'll hang around the beach (black would be too dark if they stay in the jungle, maybe?), or a bright blue. He looked so good in the CM t-shirt.

P.S. almost forgot this: Jack, stop snagging other characters' lines! "See you in another life" isn't cool anymore when you're the one pronouncing it.

P.P.S. I'm sad about Frank leaving the island.

ETA -

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Originally Posted by deej240z

About Locke being dead and they need to bring him back to the island: Maybe that's how Locke will resurrect. Like Christian. He can go around the island scaring people into doing things. Maybe he will be the new Jacob?

Ohh, why didn't I think about that? Nice speculation! He's special, his spirit could be restored once back on the island, even if the body is somehow gone.
I'm not crazy about this "gost" stuff but with Locke it could work.

Okay, you guys convinced me, I'm going to watch the coffin scene alternate versions. *braces herself"