Josh Holloway - Josh in 4x10 "Something Nice Back Home" - Lost Episode Discussion - Page 5

misteriosa · 05-03-2008, 10:50 AM

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Originally Posted by Hawthorn (View Post)

The main problem for me is always the same: the writers, and Damon aka the man in charge of this show, lurve Jack. They have said so, they've showed it. This knowledge haunts me and put a big question marks next to every "bad" development for his character and his relationships I think I see in the story.

To put it in a super simple way: I can't see Damon making Jack ends up as a loser, not getting his redemption, his hero status back, and the woman of his dreams.
That's what makes me pessimistic at the end of the day.
But I really can't be negative after the last episode... I need more information, anyway.

My thought exactly but, as always, I have no problem seeing things negatively.

I still rememer some Skaters being thrilled with TTLG and claiming Jate would never, ever happen after that. And look what we got to see in season 4.

Veronakat · 05-03-2008, 10:55 AM

Thanks for those, deej

Fran, yes, that's what I thought. That Juliet was telling both, Jack and Kate that she knew better than them. Just wanted to be sure. It's sad because I do believe Jacket could have worked very well. In the future and on the island. Poor Juliet. I don't think she would tolerate Jack's abusive behaviour with her and would change him for better.

Wishful thinking I gues

**Hawthorn** · 05-03-2008, 11:16 AM

Susana, I thought Jacket was doomed as soon as Jack professed his love for Kate after being kissed by Juliet. EM is the only woman Jack has showed a decent chemistry, that's true, but after watching The Other Woman, I think the sooner Juliet gets out of the romantic mess, the better it is for her character's storylines. I love seeing her taking charge in the last episode, she rocked and that's how I want to see her, not a trophy for Ben or Jack's rebound/comfort.

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Originally Posted by misteriosa (View Post)

My thought exactly but, as always, I have no problem seeing things negatively.

I still rememer some Skaters being thrilled with TTLG and claiming Jate would never, ever happen after that. And look what we got to see in season 4.

I hope no one who reads my comment will get offended, but taking Jack's I Love You as a platonic declaration with such a huge triangle storyline going on in the show was more than a bit naive.

If the writers didn't insist so much on Jack's feelings for Kate, I could still see a chance for Sawyer and Kate. As I said, it's hard to imagine Damon keeping his golden boy without a woman and not loved back.

The last episode doesn't fit with that, though. At least for the way how I perceived it.

I'm confused!

misteriosa · 05-03-2008, 03:46 PM

Here's something else that occurred to me:

The writers had so many Jate scenes with kisses and implied sex because they wanted to prove that Kate's interest in Jack was not only platonic, like some Skaters kept saying, but it was romantic and sexual. Not Leia/Luke kind of thing.

I also think they might have expected Kate's promise to Sawyer to cause more theories, speculations and especially debates between shippers. They could've thought Clementine won't be remembered by many fans but from what I see everyone immediately thought it had something to do with her.

Their intention could've been to make shippers fight - Skaters will claim she still loves Sawyer, Jaters will claim she's only doing him a favour and really loves Jack, who is her final choice.
(A scene in which we might see Kate with Clementine/Cassidy would gives us the answer and it would lean towards the interpretation favouring Jate.)

I can never get negative enough.

But seriously, I could care less about Jack's feelings and Jate failing due to his mistakes. It's Kate who matters and if she loves Jack and is only loyal to Sawyer, nothing else matters.

**Hawthorn** · 05-03-2008, 04:05 PM

There is only a bunch of fans simply labelling Kate's interest in Jack as platonic, I doubt the writers needed to prove anything in that sense to them or anyone, it's not like they haven't ever kissed or had flirty scenes. I think it was all about what little background they could give to them living together and being already in talk of a wedding in the little time they had, they had to show couplish scenes to led there and also paint the perfect family portrait Hurley says "it's like (in) heaven" when talking about them being dead.

And I don't think they could've counted on us not immediately speculating about Clementine and Cassidy, considering the role Cassidy played 15 episodes ago in Kate's story. If anything, I think there is a small chance Clementine might not be the topic of the promise because it's too predictable.

They've been writing episodes to create buzz and make shippers fight since S1.

But I do completely agree with this:

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But seriously, I could care less about Jack's feelings and Jate failing due to his mistakes. It's Kate who matters and if she loves Jack and is only loyal to Sawyer, nothing else matters.

The problem is, Kate's feeling are still in the dark. Because just like with the happy Skate scenes we have had, now we have happy Kate with Jack but not an insight on what's in her head, because she hasn't said anything relevant on the matter in the last episode, IMO.

We have to wait to know or get a confirmation. Oh joy.

misteriosa · 05-03-2008, 04:23 PM

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Originally Posted by Hawthorn (View Post)

There is only a bunch of fans simply labelling Kate's interest in Jack as platonic, I doubt the writers needed to prove anything in that sense to them or anyone, it's not like they haven't ever kissed or had flirty scenes. I think it was all about what little background they could give to them living together and being already in talk of a wedding in the little time they had, they had to show couplish scenes to led there and also paint the perfect family portrait Hurley says "it's like (in) heaven" when talking about them being dead.

But sometimes a small bunch of fans it the loudest one.
Still, I see your point.

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And I don't think they could've counted on us not immediately speculating about Clementine and Cassidy, considering the role Cassidy played 15 episodes ago in Kate's story. If anything, I think there is a small chance Clementine might not be the topic of the promise because it's too predictable.

I really feel like Lost almost always goes with the prdictable, even more so as the ending is nearing. The season of surprises for me was the first one, and mostly it had to do with the characters' storylines. I never saw the CM kiss coming.

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They've been writing episodes to create buzz and make shippers fight since S1.

And even in season 4 we keep falling for it.
I don't mind Skaters and Jaters having completely different opinions and interpretations, but ship wars drive me insane. Just let the other side be. What I also don't like are some "hidden" jabs and provocations in supposedly neutral or not in the least ship oriented threads and posts.

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The problem is, Kate's feeling are still in the dark. Because just like with the happy Skate scenes we have had, now we have happy Kate with Jack but not an insight on what's in her head, because she hasn't said anything relevant on the matter in the last episode, IMO.

We have to wait to know or get a confirmation. Oh joy.

I don't see how they could keep it all ambiguous for very long. I assume at least Jack and Kate will have more FF scenes so I expect some kind of confirmation (nagation) of my assumptions.

**Hawthorn** · 05-03-2008, 04:53 PM

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Originally Posted by misteriosa (View Post)

I really feel like Lost almost always goes with the prdictable, even more so as the ending is nearing. The season of surprises for me was the first one, and mostly it had to do with the characters' storylines. I never saw the CM kiss coming.

Hee, I remember when Kristin said we would see a sensitive side of Sawyer in his 3x04 FB or him in an unexcpected role (I don't recall exactly) - my first thought, I swear, was: "It's not the father storyine because it's too predictable".

Right now I hope it's Clementine so I wouldn't mind them going for the expected route. But they should stop pretending they can surprise with this stuff a fandom who 80% of the times comes up with cooler theories than the writers to explain facts.

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And even in season 4 we keep falling for it.
I don't mind Skaters and Jaters having completely different opinions and interpretations, but ship wars drive me insane. Just let the other side be. What I also don't like are some "hidden" jabs and provocations in supposedly neutral or not in the least ship oriented threads and posts.

Ah, the awesome "I don't care about these things, but if you ask me Kate belongs with ..." kind of posts and all the variations.

Again, to me it all goes back to how many people take shipping as a contest. Your couple is the football team to root for.

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I don't see how they could keep it all ambiguous for very long. I assume at least Jack and Kate will have more FF scenes so I expect some kind of confirmation (nagation) of my assumptions.

In S5 we should see them together a lot, I guess there we'll see how Kate feels, once she's on board with Jack's idea to go back.

misteriosa · 05-03-2008, 05:21 PM

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Originally Posted by Hawthorn (View Post)

Ah, the awesome "I don't care about these things, but if you ask me Kate belongs with ..." kind of posts and all the variations.

Again, to me it all goes back to how many people take shipping as a contest. Your couple is the football team to root for.

Oh, those are my favourites - "non shippers" who feel the need to discuss ships and "objectively" tells us all who Kate really loves and who has or does not have chemistry.

Give me a break! When people feel the need to say something about ships, it's because they are interested in that aspect of the show and from my POV whoever enters a ship debate assumes the role of a shipper because they always express some sort of preference for either side. (e.g. a Jack fan who wants him happy will IMO be more inclined to Jate even if they don't care about shipping. The same goes for a Sawyer fan.)

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In S5 we should see them together a lot, I guess there we'll see how Kate feels, once she's on board with Jack's idea to go back.

I hope it happens sooner.

**Hawthorn** · 05-03-2008, 05:42 PM

I don't know the period of time the finale covers, that's why I think some stuff could only come back in S5. They could elaborate on Hurley saying Jack wanted nothing to do with Kate until the trial.

I think there are people who can be objective and still care to give their take on the whole shipping thing, maybe slipping their opinion in a comment about a character's development, but I agree that almost all the times you enter a shipper debate in some form you are somehow interested which means you have preferences.

misteriosa · 05-03-2008, 05:51 PM

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Originally Posted by Hawthorn (View Post)

I don't know the period of time the finale covers, that's why I think some stuff could only come back in S5. They could elaborate on Hurley saying Jack wanted nothing to do with Kate until the trial.

I hope they'll clear that up as well as the reason for Jack not wanting to see Aaron and changing his mind about it later on.

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I think there are people who can be objective and still care to give their take on the whole shipping thing, maybe slipping their opinion in a comment about a character's development, but I agree that almost all the times you enter a shipper debate in some form you are somehow interested which means you have preferences.

There probably are people who can be objective, but when non-shippers spend most of their time on shippers' forums and discussing shipping scenes, I consider them shippers.

**Hawthorn** · 05-03-2008, 06:18 PM

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Originally Posted by misteriosa (View Post)

I hope they'll clear that up as well as the reason for Jack not wanting to see Aaron and changing his mind about it later on.

I'm 99% sure the reason he freaks out about Aaron is how uncomfortable he feels about what he will discover being his nephew. What I doubt is receiving an explanation about the second point you mentioned - I think they'll leave it at that, Jack seeing Kate at the trial, not resisting to approach her again and later deciding to accept her offer and give a go to a relationship, even if that means playing daddy to Aaron and having his presence remember him of his sister, his father, and whatever happened then the O6 left.

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There probably are people who can be objective, but when non-shippers spend most of their time on shippers' forums and discussing shipping scenes, I consider them shippers.

No no, I meant you can discuss couples objectively, if for instance you are talking about it in a general thread for an episode like I Do or Something Nice Back Home. Otherwise, you are interested and somehow you have shipper preferences.

misteriosa · 05-03-2008, 06:27 PM

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Originally Posted by Hawthorn (View Post)

I'm 99% sure the reason he freaks out about Aaron is how uncomfortable he feels about what he will discover being his nephew. What I doubt is receiving an explanation about the second point you mentioned - I think they'll leave it at that, Jack seeing Kate at the trial, not resisting to approach her again and later deciding to accept her offer and give a go to a relationship, even if that means playing daddy to Aaron and having his presence remember him of his sister, his father, and whatever happened then the O6 left.

The whole O6 storyline is very confusing and somehow doesn't make a lot of sense. The gross little bond, the guilt, the regret...now you see it, now you don't.

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No no, I meant you can discuss couples objectively, if for instance you are talking about it in a general thread for an episode like I Do or Something Nice Back Home. Otherwise, you are interested and somehow you have shipper preferences.

I agree.

allybubba · 05-03-2008, 07:03 PM

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Originally Posted by misteriosa (View Post)

I read a post (by a Jater I believe) who said that Jack and Kate are destined to be together but cannot be happy with Aaron who is destined to be raised by Sawyer and Claire.

Don't get freaked out.

Ahahaha, that's so gross.
Who the hell would even assume that, LMFAO.

**Hawthorn** · 05-03-2008, 07:13 PM

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Originally Posted by misteriosa (View Post)

The whole O6 storyline is very confusing and somehow doesn't make a lot of sense. The gross little bond, the guilt, the regret...now you see it, now you don't.

Not only that, but I don't evben see all this guilt. It's mostly about regret, for the broken dream the return to mainland seemed to be for all of them. I was expecting it to be more linked to the people they left behind.

I was thinking about the title of the episode - it's a line pronounced by Bernard during the surgery, he tells Jack if he wouldn't rather be knocked out and dream about "something nice back home" while Juliet operates on him. But the control freak in him wants to supervise the surgery and that's what is risking to make it go wrong, just like he can't let things be in the FF. Does the fact that Kate is holding the mirror, the tool allowing Jack to be in control of the operation have an importance? Or the whole thing was about Jack wanting Kate next to him through such a delicate experience, also because he trusts her?

jessica1984 · 05-03-2008, 09:32 PM

Is it biazzare that I am going back and forth on the amount of positivity I am supposed to be feeling about Skate after that last scene? The first time I saw it, I thought it was great for Skate and showed that keeping Sawyer's promise was more important to Kate than anything, but after watching a few times and reading around (not on Jater boards), I don't know if it was supposed to be all that great for Skate or even that terrible for Jate.

Yeah, the emotion Kate had when she mentioned Sawyer's name was nice and the actual deed of keeping that promise, but she really did seem adament that what she was doing is not something that took away from her love or desire to be with Jack. She said that it had nothing to do with "us" meaning her and Jack as a couple. Now, doesn't that say that even if she is doing something for Sawyer, it is not that important or meaningful enough to her to want it to affect her romantic life with Jack? She was kinda saying that, "Yeah I am doing this for him, but believe me: It has nothing to do with how I feel about you so don't let it come between us." She didn't want Jack to think that what she was doing for Sawyer was something out of the love she still felt for him.

I want her to be doing whatever it is she is doing because she is still in love with him and wants to hold on to him in any way possible, but I don't know for sure if I saw that vibe from Kate. She seemed more emotional at the thought of it coming between what her and Jack had going.

Like I said, I have been going back and forth on this since Thursday, so it's possible I don't know what I am saying.