[BryceLarkinFanForever]

Originally Posted by Considering Disobedience (View Post) Cas was suppose to be the exception to the rule. How many more times is Dean going to get crapped on? ...I only hope that Dean can save Cas before it's too late.

I don't think Cas should be the exception to the rule or just be Dean's perfect friend, I mean, yeah Dean gets lots of crap but so does Cas, but their friendship is based on them knowing that neither is perfect and that they should help each other. Cas shouldn't solely exist just so that Dean should have a new best friend who's perfect and never "betrays" him, that would be uninteresting. Dean gets crapped on just as much as Cas does, and this storyline is true to life between friends, sometimes things happen and you have to choose do you stand by your friend and help or you let him spiral down.

It's a test, Cas has stood by Dean, been the strength that Dean needs, but as true to life, Cas can't carry that weight forever, he's not perfect, and now he needs Dean to be that pillar of strength for him the way he was for Dean. And I hope to see them both come out of this even stronger together.

As for Dean's faith in Cas getting broken, I think it'll depend on what's really going on with this Crowley stuff and souls. It's not like Dean's never worked with Crowley before, so I like to see what happens before I make a judgment on that. But Cas's faith in Dean was broken at one point before they were able to fix it, so maybe now it's Dean's turn to face that challenge.

I think in the coming weeks, we will see some really amazing stuff between Dean and Cas, it's about time they put that connection/bond on the forefront and tackle how this relationship effects Cas and Dean.

[Tennessee Whiskey]

It's a test, Cas has stood by Dean, been the strength that Dean needs, but as true to life, Cas can't carry that weight forever, he's not perfect, and now he needs Dean to be that pillar of strength for him the way he was for Dean.

Cas has stood by Dean? Been a pillar of strength? At times, maybe. But not always. I seem to remember a beating he gave Dean because Dean disappointed him and didn't live up to his expectations. I also seem to remember him letting Sam out of the panic room, that wasn't standing by Dean. And there was the time he used their friendship to get Dean to torture again after Dean begged him not to ask it of him. Cas may be an angel but he isn't a saint. Both of them have their faults but Dean has every right to feel betrayed and let down by somebody he trusted and called a friend. Cas is working with a demon, the very same Demon who was using Sam's soul as a bargaining chip. I'm not going to jump down Cas' throat, we don't know the whole story, I do believe he thinks he's doing the right thing, but he should have trusted Dean enough to tell him the truth from the get go and not lie to him for months.

[BryceLarkinFanForever]

Originally Posted by Considering Disobedience (View Post) Cas has stood by Dean? Been a pillar of strength? At times, maybe. But not always.

I never said it was always. In fact, I said Cas isn't perfect, but when it counted, Cas came through, he turned on his own family, went to help Dean get Sam and got blown up for all his troubles. Not to mention even in disappointment, Cas still risked his life to help Sam and Dean get Adam to safety. Then turned around and gave Dean 5 minutes with Sam at the final battle and once again got blown up for all he did. Cas is never perfect nor is he a saint, he's made his mistakes, but he has stood by Dean in those pivotal moments, and even in times of war, still come down to make sure the boys have help in their fights, he didn't have to, but he did, it's quite clear Sam and Dean's safety are top on his priority.

Of course Dean has a right to feel betrayed, I never said he didn't, but all I'm asking for is that he try to understand Cas's reasons rather than going into betrayal mode or lecturing mode. It's been pretty clear that Cas's on a down-spiral both emotionally and morally these past few months, clearly these decisions he's made is haunting him and he hates what he has to do to protect the people he cares about and win this war. I'm just hoping that maybe Dean can think about that first before making it a big thing about betrayal.

Neither of them are wrong or evil, but I think this is one of those pivotal moments where they really have to stand by each other, even through thick and thin!

As for the whole lying thing, Dean's not exactly the bigger picture kind of guy, and Cas has to be that way in order to make the decisions he's had to win this war against Raphael, decisions that probably Dean wouldn't stand for but Cas can't afford for Dean to try and stop. This is less about trust than Cas knowing that Dean wouldn't allow him to do what he is doing now. It doesn't excuse the lying but when has things done in wartime ever been that simple.

And with Cas and Crowley, who knows what's going on there, but I don't think Cas has the lying abilities to fake his reaction to Sam not having a soul......this is coming from a guy who epically fails at lying.....though he did put up a pretty good act with smoking Crowley....but sometimes the enemy of my enemy is a friend....surely Sam and Dean can understand considering they had worked with Crowley too....

But on a lighter side, Dean was a big meanie calling Cas a "baby in a trenchcoat" Meanie Dean hurt Cas's feelings!

[cutie_pie04]

So the whole Eve plot is just done already Very anti climatic

Crowley missed him. Hmm... so Cas was working with him the whole time I feel bad for Dean for having another trusted person betray him. But I find my self interested by Cas for the first time in forever so I just hope Cas didnt have anything to do with Sams soul because that would piss Dean off more than anything.

Needed more Sam.

Sam and Dean in the car with those kids was just their looks

[BryceLarkinFanForever]

Originally Posted by cutie_pie04 (View Post) So the whole Eve plot is just done already Very anti climatic

I don't think Eve was ever meant to be the "big bad" of the season, if anything, she was a plot-point or better yet, a red herring, because while all our attention was focused on Eve and what possible danger she could bring or if she was like Lucifer, it allowed Cas to fly under the radar for most of the season.

I think it was always meant that Cas and Crowley were the real danger of this season, but because we were side-tracked, we never saw the real threat these two propose to us. But in the end, it's true, Cas and Crowley make more of a threat and certainly a more compelling threat than Eve ever was. A demon who'll do what he wants for power and an angel lost and misguided are much more dangerous together than Eve.

You are right about one thing, the storyline for Cas is finally getting interesting, it's about time Cas got a solo storyline with a purpose other than being Sam and Dean's tag-along, and the fact that they are finally fleshing out his character and getting inside his head and seeing what really makes him tick and why he is doing the things that he does really makes this something worth watching!

Cas and Crowley together provide a much better story-arc for the Winchesters to face than any other "big bad" character can do because there is not just an element of protecting the innocent, but this time it's emotional, and it may very well be about saving a friend from himself and the mess he's gotten into. It's clear that Cas is getting in way over his head and he doesn't know how to get out, Dean might have taught him about freedom and making choices but I don't think Cas really knows how it is done. He will need Dean's help.

[Stargazer*]

I think Cas' storyline is extremely mirrored to Sam's in S4. I wonder if this is done purposely or just repetitive writing. Sam was using demon blood, I have a heavy hunch that Cas is using souls, ( I could be wrong) They are both working with Demons and lying about it; and they are both doing it in the hope of saving the world/heaven. We know Sam was screwed in the end, I wonder if the same unfortunate end will happen to Cas.

If all Cas has done is work with Crowley, I think he is looking good in being forgiven. Dean would probably be pissed at him for lying, but Dean has always been a pretty forgiving person, thinking back to his speech in ATTWN. It took Dean awhile to forgive Sam, rightly so though it broke my heart, and if this is all Cas has done, then i am sure he will be forgiven eventually.
The only way I can see Cas not being forgiven is if he had anything to do with Sam's soul. That worries me. I think Crowley was lying when he said he didn't have control of it, and i would hate to think Cas knew that information and let Crowley keep Sam's soul in hell- no matter what his thoughts were on the soul issue. Even worse if Cas actually used Sam's soul. This is just a theory, but if its true, I cannot see Dean jumping on the forgiving bandwagon. We all know how protective he is and if Cas betrayed them in any aspect that deals with Sam...

[cutie_pie04]

^ thats what Im mostly concerned about. I think Dean can be very forgiving with people he cares about, but if it some how involves Sams soul then I dont think that Dean will be very forgiving.

[Tennessee Whiskey]

The only way I can see Cas not being forgiven is if he had anything to do with Sam's soul. That worries me. I think Crowley was lying when he said he didn't have control of it, and i would hate to think Cas knew that information and let Crowley keep Sam's soul in hell- no matter what his thoughts were on the soul issue. Even worse if Cas actually used Sam's soul. This is just a theory, but if its true, I cannot see Dean jumping on the forgiving bandwagon. We all know how protective he is and if Cas betrayed them in any aspect that deals with Sam...

This is my biggest fear! There has to be a reason why Cas was so dead against Dean getting Sam's soul back. And the pains of hell just doesn't cut it. For some reason I just don't get why he'd be all that tortured, yes he was stuck in a cage with Lucifer and Michael, but how does that equal soul torture? King of hell or not Lucifer always seemed nice, and Michael well Michael is shady at best but still why torture Sam for? And since Sam was so self sacrificing to save the world...maybe his soul had a bit more juice then you're average Joe soul. I'm really scared to see how this all plays out. I hope for the best with Dean/Cas, but I don't have the most faith in the writers right now, not after they strung us Cas fans along all season.

[Ghostfacer]

Really good episode, nice twist on the end there, just sucks about Cas, I want him to be good! Well, he may have some good intentions, just don't want another Sam!season4 thing going on...

[cherrios]

I think if Crowley was lying about being able to get either of Sam or Adam's souls because of Cas. I don't think Dean would ever forgive Cas for putting his brothers' souls literally through hell for the war.

[ale-la-pazza1]

This episode was anticlimactic.

The Mommy was gone just like this? Ehm..okay.

Also Crowley is still alive? And Cass is behind all this?

[BryceLarkinFanForever]

Originally Posted by ale-la-pazza1 (View Post) This episode was anticlimactic. The Mommy was gone just like this? Ehm..okay. Also Crowley is still alive? And Cass is behind all this?

I've said this before, I think the Mother was never really gonna be the center of the final showdown, she was more of a red herring. This whole season's showdown is actually really focused on Winchester vs. Castiel than anything else, and personally, I think that showdown is much more interesting than Eve is.

[Liia]

Not my favourite episode, but I liked it.

Loved all the Team Free Will scenes and brotherly moments (the scene in the car! )

Jefferson Starship!

But I'd love to see more of Eve. I get it that she wasn't the centre of season 6, but she was pretty interesting after all. Anyway, the way Dean killed her- for me, awesome. It was the good, bad-ass Dean.
Samantha Ferris was great.

The only way I can see Cas not being forgiven is if he had anything to do with Sam's soul. That worries me. I think Crowley was lying when he said he didn't have control of it, and i would hate to think Cas knew that information and let Crowley keep Sam's soul in hell- no matter what his thoughts were on the soul issue. Even worse if Cas actually used Sam's soul. This is just a theory, but if its true, I cannot see Dean jumping on the forgiving bandwagon. We all know how protective he is and if Cas betrayed them in any aspect that deals with Sam...

It worries me too. When it comes to Sam, I can't imagine Dean very forgiving...

[SPF40]

Jefferson Starships.... why is Dean so hilariously adorable?

As always, I enjoyed the brothers being brothers.

I don't want them to go this route with Cas! He can't be evil. I'm sure he has the right intentions at heart. I can't wait to find out more.

[Liia]

As always, I enjoyed the brothers being brothers.

Sometimes I think that if the brothers just keep being brothers I'll love every single episode. (ok, maybe not one with Lisa in it)

Now Sam and Dean's relationship is perfect and it's a real pleasure to watch.