[Folie]

I don't think I have anything new to say

I liked it! Very, very very much. I didn't think it was perfect but it was a good one.

Dean dying did end up being funny.
It was heartbreaking the first two times but after that.... forget it! I was with everything that was going on. And when I say everything, I mean everything.

And then Wednesday came... that was just as heartbreaking as the first two times Dean died and then some, because the fall out? *shudder*
Freaky how John-like Sam was. And unlike his father, Sam didn't have two little ones to fend for, so that basically permitted him to be full on creepy...
I'll echo the Trickster a bit "Whoever said Dean was just like his Dad, has never seen Sam getting obsessed over hunting."
And the beging was very heartbreaking...
Gotta love how they did kinda sorta mirror the hug from AHBL2 with this one.
Of course that one was a Kim episode also so that might have something to do with it.

Bringing the Trickster back was a nice twist.
I loved the actor but didn't remember his name, however I did get a feeling when the credits roled that the second name did seem familiar. But I guess it was good because it didn't really spoil it for me. I did get a WTF moment when they featured him quite a bit during the "THEN" segment but putting in a bunch of djihn too kinda threw me off.


Also I thought I had on the Ruby thread.
Think maybe Ruby might have put the Trickster up to make Sam see how life would be without Dean?
The THEN segments, always seem to tie in with the episode somehow.
Now one might argue that indeed they showed that scene with Ruby telling Dean that Sam needs to get prepared for the war without him as just a reminder that Dean is dying and Sam needs to prep up, but I think it was a little too specific.
Plus the whole deal with the Trickster "wanting to teach Sam a lesson" was weird. Why would he want to teach Sam a lesson?
And why would he put things back?
I would also causiously speculate that Dean might have been in on it...
Not really like a part of the plan but aware something a little more was up. BUt I'm not 100% decided if I am backing up that spec or not. Again just going on the previously segment where Ruby ask for Dean's help....

[Mei Zhuo]

I've been thinking about that too, what would the Trickster really care about "wanting to teach Sam a lesson" and the particular lesson, life without Dean, seem like a Ruby-thing, so it's possible that she might have put the Trickster to it, I doubt he has much vested interest in the big war or anything.

[Enigma]

Just got done watching this episode.

I've been excited for this ep but it wasn't quite what I expected. Like some of you have said, I felt it was lacking something.

Jared and Jensen were both great. Sam saying he was supposed to wake up killed me. And of course seeing what Sam became w/o Dean........just going through the motions, etc. was heartbreaking.

The whole Trickster thing was kind of weird. I get him being ticked off at the guys and wanting to mess with them. But, the whole idea of it really being a lesson for Sam.......I don't know. I just don't see why he would be invested in that. Or even why ultimately he let the whole thing go. I don't know. Maybe speculation about someone putting him to it is a possibility.

[SAMMEH]

Mystery Spot was SUCH a good episode!
i was just so surprised they left dean dead for such a long time!! (the 6 months later thing...) pretty harsh for a lesson from a trickster!

[jess2988]

We finally got this ep in Australia and it was fantastic! best f the season I think. I don't really have anything new to add but very glad there was no ruby or Bela, especially Bela.

[Anla]

Originally Posted by LittleWillow (View Post) I mean, Dean mouthing along with the song and bobbing his head like that.

I loved that - the little domestic moments of the boys' lives, just getting up and ready in the morning. And I absolutely adore the fact that Dean can get into the music so much, all bopping along like that.

I just wanted to hug Sam and make it all better because that face? That "you died and left me all alone" face?

So, they meet the trickster again and the joke is on Sam. What, why? Why does the trickster need to show Sam that he can't save Dean? I get that he plays jokes all the time but WHY this one? Why does he need to learn Sam a lesson?

I'm not completly 100% sure on this one, either. I really like the adversarial character of the Trickster, but by his very nature, he's hard to get a firm understanding of. I don't think it was revenge on the boys for trying to kill him before (although it may have been a bit of pay-back for that). I kept remembering how he said in his first episode that he actually liked Dean and Sam. So maybe, in his own admittedly twisted way, he was trying to teach Sam a lesson, that he can't save Dean and he has to accept it. The question is, why? But then, given that it's the Trickster, it may have been more "why not?" He was there, the boys were there - why not put things in motion and see what happens, see if Sam learns to let Dean go.

And then, the following scenes of Sam living life without Dean. Oh man, that should NEVER have to happen. It was terrible. Bobby calling him, worried, and all those scenes of Sam going through hunts and feeling absolutely NOTHING anymore, doing everything like a robot,....

Sam alone is even worse, even colder and more detached and revenge-driven than John. John had the boys to give him some measure of attachment to the world, but without Dean, Sam had nothing.

And it pretty much blows the whole "Sam'll be fine once Dean's dead" theory that Dean keeps holding onto right out of the water.

And Bobby (even though it wasn't the real one) wanting to give up his life to bring Dean back. I think Bobby would really do that, because he loves these boys so much, as if they were his own sons.

Actually, I don't think Bobby would have done it, not like that, and it's what made Sam realize it wasn't really Bobby. Not so much that Bobby wouldn't give his life to save the boys - I'm sure he would. If a monster was coming for either boy, I'm sure Bobby would jump in its way without hesitation, that type of thing. But having Sam kill him to bring Dean back from the dead? When (as much as Sam wants his brother back), Bobby knows perfectly well that Dean's "what's dead should stay dead" belief is right. Bobby's a hunter - he knows better than to mess with the natural order of things. And what would killing him do to Sam?

[Mei Zhuo]

Sam alone is even worse, even colder and more detached and revenge-driven than John. John had the boys to give him some measure of attachment to the world, but without Dean, Sam had nothing. And it pretty much blows the whole "Sam'll be fine once Dean's dead" theory that Dean keeps holding onto right out of the water.

I know! Sam is scary and emotionless, detached to everything and it's scary to see a preview of that. And I agree that the difference between the obsession of John and Sam is that John had his boys, he had them to keep him sort of grounded, as compared to Sam with no one, free to fall into the obsession completely, no Dean or John to keep him grounded

[Folie]

And then it also proves my point that Sam is far more like John than Dean is.

If you recall Dean's reaction to Sam dieing wasn't that of revenge. It was of sorrow and saddness and resignment. He had an actual breakdown.
However Sam bolted everything inside and totally went into robot John mode which was just plain creepy, and as has been previously mentioned probably exactly what John would have turned into did he not have the boys.

[Anla]

Oh, Sam is totally John.

I remember when IMTOD aired, I was worried by how quick Sam was to suggest finding a supernatural way to heal Dean. Now, back in Faith, Sam could use ignorance as his defense - he didn't know that an innocent was going to die to save Dean's life. But by IMTOD? Now he knew what the probably cost for any supernatural intercession would be, and he didn't hesitate. Saving his brother came first.

And now in this ep, we saw Sam say that he would go off and kill someone in order to bring Dean back. Very scary, how far Sam would be willing to go for Dean.

[Anla]

Originally Posted by blessingcurse_calling (View Post) Personally, my biggest issue with this episode? The fact that they included the Trickster in the recap. I understand why they did it, but personally, I think it should have been avoided at all costs…

The first time I saw this ep, I didn't get to see the recap, so when they actually did reveal the Trickster, I was surprised. And all "Oh, awesome!"

[Folie]

It didn't bother me that much. Don't get me wrong, I found it odd too, but then they showed a lot of djinn stuff too and that threw me off a bit.

[Tennessee Whiskey]

However Sam bolted everything inside and totally went into robot John mode which was just plain creepy, and as has been previously mentioned probably exactly what John would have turned into did he not have the boys.

I never thought of that before, Dean is Sam's Mary.

[Mei Zhuo]

Definitely And Sam and John are so much alike that it's actually scary,as you guys pointed out, Dean acted differently when Sam died, he didn't feel the need or the thirst for revenge, he broke down

[Anla]

Dean internalizes. When he's at his most hurt, most terrified, he shuts down and emotionally turns inward. He'll still lash out in anger (like when he yelled at Bobby to just let the world end, that he didn't care anymore, once Sam was dead), but it's different.

While Sam and John act outwards. And they turn off those emotions as much as they can.

The problem with the two of them was probably always that they were just too much alike. Neither deals well with compromise or with not getting what they want.

Those Winchester men are complicated.

And I love how neither brother is really, deep-down, what they seem at first sight.

[Mei Zhuo]

that's true, neither of them are what you get from your first impression; and no arguments here about them being complicated

But yeah, when Dean is faced with a crisis, especially if it's involving family, he shuts down his emotions; he does still lash out at others, but all the more with himself. Dean seems to feel the need to blame himself, for example, like failing to protect Sam, etc.