Grey's Anatomy - T.R. Knight ||George O'Malley|| #26: Because we will NEVER forgot our George but we wish TR all the best - Page 2

Bella Grint · 06-23-2009, 04:40 PM

Oh I remember that!

TFTNT!

**wanderer78** · 06-23-2009, 11:05 PM

Thanks for the new thread.

And I really liked that Top 10 moments article.

I can think of so many more.

brendadylan1984 · 06-24-2009, 03:53 AM

Thank you for the new thread Marie!

I love the Top 10 moments article so much!

ganymede20 · 06-24-2009, 05:35 AM

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Gwen, this is very well said. And I know we've had quite the discussions (with Red as well) in the past of this "bad boy" phenomenon and I was so resistant to it.... and I still feel like putting them into the "good guy" box or "bad guy" box can understate or limit their character depth (even George's), but you have convinced me that this phenomenon is alive and thriving in the industry right now... and controlling the artistic direction chosen by these shows and their writers/producers.

As far as the labels are concerned I forgot to factor in an element that covers your dissent. The archetypes are reinforced and simplified through the process of commercialism. I realized this when talking to Red about the Tony Soprano/Vic Mackey/Jack Bauer/Al Swearingen model of extreme protagonists that these men were never intended to be role models. On closer examination these men lead lonely, troubled lives and the consequences of their brutal actions are shown. It's this very complexity that attracts most viewers not so much the violence. In fact, these men are balanced both by gentler and more fanatical characters.

However, first the critics glorify these men by glossing over the nuances of their lives. They declare them "cool" and isolate moments out of context. True art reviews have died being replaced by attempts to discover why a show is succesful. When critics decide then the executives try to replicate this formula in everything. Then comes the marketing, which seeks to minimize complexities to sell a product. Of course, the male characters are more than their categories but magazines tell us Derek is the prince, Alex is the brooding hunk, Mark is the womanizer, and George is a girl's cuddly but asexual best friend.

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And you know what? I think they are all just shooting themselves in the foot. As you have pointed out, in the past... it appeals to a younger demographic group... that's who they are aiming to please and they are completely missing the boat with everyone else. So, they think it sells. But they forget it does not sell to everyone. If they continue to charge headfirst down this path, they are going to lose, IMO.

In some ways that's why it sells to the younger demographic whose lack of experience and desire to break from authority look at the world through simple models. Not only, as you said, is it alienating for us who are older and want more variety but it misses a chance to teach. If GA was pure brain candy it wouldn't be so objectionable but Shonda's aim had been to exhibit an egalitarian world. Having George be a sexual being went against the grain. With the show now succumbing to stereotypes and certain traits overwhelming others it's lost much of its specialness.

You're right it's foolish to pursue only the young to the exclusion of others. For one thing advertisers crave for the older teen crowd to the young adults between 18-25. That's a narrow range and one who are notoriously fickle with short attention span. In this economic climate does it make sense to cater to a group who's disposable income need to be supplemented by their parents. As an older person I have a decent job and more funds.

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But I'm curious, what is that in T.R's hand in the first picture?

It's a cigarette. He used to be a smoker. There's something inherently stressful about network TV filming that many actors puff the nicotine between takes. The National Enquirer caught a pic of Luke visiting TR on the set and, sure enough, there's a cigarette peeking from his fingers.

Marie, thanks for the new thread. The title is great and thanks for linking that article. My only quibble is her obvious anti-Gizzie analysis in the "What a Difference a Day Makes" but I agree what a wonderfully positive tone. I agree there should be 20 best moments. I'm glad someone realized his sacrifice.

Here's a pic spam:

Not only do I love how blue shirt accentuates his eyes but also how he looks gorgeous in disarray. His hair is out of place and a bit of stubble can be seen but somehow he's just perfect in his imperfections.

Here he's smiling. That's enough. I've always noticed that slightly crooked right canine of his and thought that was absolutely adorable.

mariem201 · 06-24-2009, 08:09 AM

She's not as anti-Gizzie as the others. In fact, she responds to some of the comments and mentions the linen closet scene as her 11th favorite scene and specifies how much emotion TR was able to convey without a word.

In fact, I'm not even sure she's anti-Gizzie. She states they had a failed romance, but it's true. Failed means they didn't stay together.

She nowhere says they were wrong or disgusting or a disaster.

She then talks about their special connection.

She obviously loves George and admires TR and you sense it in whatever she writes.

Gwen, yeah, my schedule is tough. We do 9 hours to 13 hours every night, starting at 4 pm and ending at 1 am or later, but we got a lot of vacations. 13 weeks. That makes up a bit for it. Plus the fact I adore translating. You learn about everything.

Summer with your kids has to be special. Planning any vacation?

I actually was reading ABC soap digest and they were praising Grey as what soaps should be more like.

They mentioned romance, friendship and work.

All I could think of is this show used to be all that, but now they are so based on stereotypes and have reduced their characters to a simple adjective as you say.

Some soaps are able to go against the grain. ATWT, which I don't watch anymore, has a character who is not your typical hunk. He's more the funny type, and his girlfriend looks like a model.

For years the character was written as the asexual best friend of this beautidful bubbly blonde, but a few years back, they gave him his own life and his own girlfriend and finally showed he could be mroe than the asexual friend.

People found it weird at first, but now they love he and his wife together.

Same with Friends. When they started with Mondler, people were so against it, and so many people said Monica was too beautiful for him. The show stayed loyal to them though, and they became one of the most popular couples on the show.

Many fans were starting to accept Gizzie too, but Shonda caved in to the shallowness of some fans and critics way too soon.

Bella Grint · 06-24-2009, 08:26 AM

I never knew that about Mondler! I started watching Friends a few seasons after that but when I saw the first episode with them after the wedding I fell for them fast. It's amazing how much people base on looks and how they aren't right. George and Chandler might not what everyone thinks is hot but that doesn't mean good looking guys are always the best for every pairing just based alone on looks *rolls eyes*..sad to see that Shonda fell for some of that.

mariem201 · 06-24-2009, 09:09 AM

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Originally Posted by Bella Grint (View Post)

I never knew that about Mondler! I started watching Friends a few seasons after that but when I saw the first episode with them after the wedding I fell for them fast. It's amazing how much people base on looks and how they aren't right. George and Chandler might not what everyone thinks is hot but that doesn't mean good looking guys are always the best for every pairing just based alone on looks *rolls eyes*..sad to see that Shonda fell for some of that.

I know. Someone on EW was all like, come on ladies, who would you pick, George or Derek? She was saying we would all pick Derek.

Why is that? Because he looks McDreamy?

It's so sad that so many people are shallow like that.

I don't get it either. I see so many couples in rl where the girl is gorgeous and the guy is completely ordinary-looking. So I don't get why some seem to think all women are shallow and will only good with a good-looking guy.

Not the women I know, but the critics and some of the Grey fans are so shallow. The worst is they act like shallowness makes them smart or something, like we're the idiots for loving George over the other guys.

Little folllow-up to the article:
T.R. Knight's top ten moments on 'Grey's Anatomy'

It seems she loved the suggestions so much, she will do a sequel to George's best moments.

She's asking for more moments.

I really love that.

Maybe we should send it to Shonda, LOL?

Make her remember what a great character George was.

nililah · 06-24-2009, 09:13 AM

Gahhh it is so sad that he is leaving indeed

inthesun · 06-24-2009, 09:16 AM

I love those pictures...he has such beautiful and expressive eyes. He is hot to me...I will miss seeing him on the show.

mariem201 · 06-24-2009, 10:00 AM

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Originally Posted by inthesun (View Post)

I love those pictures...he has such beautiful and expressive eyes. He is hot to me...I will miss seeing him on the show.

He does have beautiful eyes.

I have alwasy been an eye girl, so I guess that's what makes him so hot to me.

That and his smile. To me, his smile just makes my knees wobble.

greysaddiction · 06-24-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariem201 (View Post)

He does have beautiful eyes.

I have alwasy been an eye girl, so I guess that's what makes him so hot to me.

That and his smile. To me, his smile just makes my knees wobble.

Just popping in real quick b/c I had to comment here...

Those eyes and that smile.

and I must mention the scar again... that scar is just so sexy!

You know I like PD -- and I find him very sexy too. Interestingly, he wasn't always the "mcdreamy" type. Check out this photo from the late 80's:

Actually kind of geeky looking? But so, so cute!

But honestly?

TR is my McDreamy.

~ Cindy

Bella Grint · 06-24-2009, 03:56 PM

when it comes to guys, looks only go so far. Good looks don't instantly mean that guy is going to be Prince Charming he could turn out to be a real jerk or a crazy psycho

Derek is McDreamy but he's had some moments in the series where he isn't perfect especially this past season. Same with Mark Sloane, Alex, Owen, etc. That doesn't make them any better or worse than George. McSteamy and George both have been cheaters in marriages but Sloane was always more of a ladie's man. George doesn't have that same quality but that speaks volumes and it is overlooked thanks to their looks no pun intended

NotYourChick86 · 06-24-2009, 05:23 PM

I think my sister's youngest looks like him. I told him he should be George for Halloween.

**wanderer78** · 06-24-2009, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariem201 (View Post)

Some soaps are able to go against the grain. ATWT, which I don't watch anymore, has a character who is not your typical hunk. He's more the funny type, and his girlfriend looks like a model.

For years the character was written as the asexual best friend of this beautidful bubbly blonde, but a few years back, they gave him his own life and his own girlfriend and finally showed he could be mroe than the asexual friend.

People found it weird at first, but now they love he and his wife together.

You're talking about Henry (played by Trent Dawson), right? I

him. I used to watch ATWT a lot, and he was my favorite character/actor. Actually, he wasn't supposed to be a main character. He started out as a minor day player. But he became so popular with fans that he became a major character on the show.

Funny story that involves both ATWT and GA. I used to hang out on an ATWT board, and it had a daily OT thread. One was titled "McDreamy or McSteamy?", but a bunch of posters picked George, even though he wasn't even part of the original question/post.

Gah, I'm going to miss TR so much.

I love that he's doing theater though. I just wish I could see him.

ganymede20 · 06-25-2009, 05:46 AM

Cindy, I'm so glad you posted that old pic of PD. I've mentioned in past threads, but it bears repeating, he didn't begin his career as a hunk but with a geeky persona. In Can't Buy Me Love he has to twist a girl's arm to date him because he was a nerd. In the delightful comedy In the Mood he plays a George-like character who inadvertently marries three women at the same time. The character is 17 but woos the older, sexy ladies because he listens to them, respects their opinions, and is kind-hearted. His gentility was such he couldn't break any of their hearts and wed all three. Talk about indecisive. (BTW, this is a true story.)

Since I lived through the 1980s PD was considered the same as TR-the geeky cutie. Kirk Cameron, Tom Cruise, Patrick Swayze, just to name a few were the real "hunks." Even an actor named C. Thomas Howell was more popular. Look him up and see my point. It wasn't until the late 1990s PD was cast as leading men. Where one starts isn't always where one will remain.

Neither Cindy nor I mean it as a slam against any actors we mentioned. But to those who're reading and aren't the biggest fans of TR/ George do have the humility to realize things in Hollywood are cyclical and not everyone "hot" will be in the future. I'd advised against making arguments that go, "He's no.....Robert Pattinson....Chace Crawford.....Zac Efron....etc." when discussing the merits of TR, George, or his career.

Marie, I remember the Mondler controversy. Marta Kauffman defended it so articulately and Courteney Cox reminded people she was dating/ married to David Arquette. Furthermore Kauffman reminded the press who was enthralled with Ross/ Rachel that David Schwimmer wasn't a typical romantic lead either. In fact DS also was deemed a geek early in his career. Perhaps, being a comedy softened any criticism or that Matthew Perry is straight.

Thanks for the update on Erin Nolan's article. It's nice to see a writer who still respects TR/ George and is willing to do a follow-up. Is The Examiner, a Canadian publication, because I noticed he's accorded more courtesy in foreign press. I was pleased when she wanted to include the scene where he visits Callie with movies and a bucket of chicken. At least, she acknowledges his believability as a romantic character even if she may not like Gizzie.

Here's what I've been wanting to say about TR's departure. While there was still much to do with George, there always will be, TR situation was becoming untenable. First the glare of the Hollywood press has put an intense scrutiny on his every move. Unfortunately in today's celebrity culture there's an assumption that every entertainer must live his/her life before the cameras. As a shy, private man considerate of other's feelings this is just incongruent. Second the press actively seeks and invents sensationalism therefore I've sadly noticed he graces the tabloids without doing much. He's certainly no Lindsay Lohan or Brtiney Spears.

In this vein with GA being one of the few shows to have widespread popularity but also have sizable a youth demographic. Therefore it became fodder for the media and often projected its conventional wisdom onto the proceedings. As I've said before the industry is uncomfortable with TR playing straight in a dramatic role. Furthermore his own personality didn't conform to the witty New Yorker with martini in hand but to a beer-drinking, reserved Midwesterner. As a result it assessed George through that prism.

Sadly ABC/ Shonda capitulated. Without their support and not having substantial storylines to remind people of his talent the ugly accusations seemed to be tacitly confirmed. TR does need a break from this hysteria and a chance to prove himself. I was pleased to discover that the relationship between Leo Frank and his wife, Lucille, is a pivotal element of Parade. Thus he has a platform to shine in the medium he most treasures.

Had he stayed with GA it's unclear if he would've received the rehabilitation necessary for him and George or if the media would've accepted it. Note that now that TR and George seem vanquished the claws are retracted. To me it seems proof the goal was to have him removed. Nonetheless he has to rebuild his career and image. Contrary to popular belief simply collecting a sizable paycheck while remaining invisible doesn't do wonders for one's prospects in the industry.

Personally I think TR isn't done with being in front of the camera. He may use Parade as a stepping stone to film and TV. Although I doubt he'll try being a regular on a network series again.

Here's a pic from his GLAAD PSA

From the Love and Pride rally