Grey's Anatomy - The Averys || JacksonღAprilღBaby|| #197: Because "whatever you need, I'm here" - Jackson - Page 2

justathought · 01-30-2015, 08:41 AM

The entire show was off the hook last night.
Beautifully acted...kudos to all.

As far as the baby, I would still prefer a natural death than April going through with a late term abortion if they still are going this route.
Pro life is not you quantifying what is quality of life.
It is you believing all life, in all forms, is scared and from God.

This is going to set off a fire storm with many groups, as well it should if she has a late term abortion.

SD, as a pastors daughter knows fully what is the definition of pro life, and especially to those that are Christian.

For women, who are pro life who have carried babies in similar or even worst conditions it is demonizing. It is accusing them of being either to stupid to understand that they should have terminated because of the childs condition or that they were selfish.

I understand both sides of the issue, and this opinion is not because of my own personal belief in pro life/ right to choose.

This is about the character.
I cannot see April the character, who fell apart over losing her virginity out of wedlock, emotionally surviving this decision.

IMO, if they are going to kill the baby, I would prefer her to go into premature labor, (what does happen with type II), than to have to deal with the trauma of a late term abortion.

JaprilFan · 01-30-2015, 08:45 AM

Also,the surgery for the patient in the side might be a parallel for trying to have a new baby for april and jackson. maybe one of the two suggests to try again straightaway after their baby dying (maybe jackson seeing how depressed april is?) but then by the end of the episode they realise that its not a wise choice and should take some time to heal first.

Edsbootycall · 01-30-2015, 08:48 AM

Well, if April is told that her baby will be fracturing his bones the remainder of the pregnancy, and there's no way to tell if this will cause him pain, and there's literally no hope that he will survive.. I could see her choosing to terminate for the sake of the baby. Although I am not sure terminate means the same to others as it does to me. Like I said previously, my friend had a similar situation (and is also pro-life) and was induced at 23 weeks instead a late term abortion. I mean she knew the baby would not survive long after birth, but she chose to give birth to her instead of having doctors go in and cut her up and suction her out, know what I mean? And there's no need for a pastor to bless an aborted baby, there's no need for a birth certificate or a death certificate for an aborted baby, but there is a need for a pastor to bless a baby that was induced at 24/25 weeks and only has a very small window before he passes, and there is a need for a birth certificate of that child.

Japrilfan, that is a very good point. In any case, I could see them deciding by season's end to try to have another baby. This baby would be planned. The pregnancy would be perfect. It would be a girl. Total opposite of their current pregnancy. Coincidentally, my friend that was induced at 23 weeks, tried about 3-4 months later for another baby. Got pregnant and had a healthy boy. She calls him her rainbow baby. The rainbow after the storm.

Michele22 · 01-30-2015, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edsbootycall (View Post)

Here is something I am curious about regarding the late-term abortion.

My friend had a baby with Trisomy 13 or 18, whichever one is fatal. They INDUCED labor and she delivered the baby at 23 weeks. She held her. She named her. The baby died shortly after and was buried. Could this be the way it goes with Jackson and April's baby? Not necessarily an abortion in the simplest definition but still "terminating" the pregnancy. Their baby would be born. There would be a need for a BIRTH CERTIFICATE. A pastor blessing that baby. And then the baby passing. Would also fit with why Mama Avery is there, as support for Jackson and April. Then April could take time off work (which would explain Sarah's absence) and we'd hear about how she's coping through Jackson. Which, going by the side in 15, is not very well up until that point. It seems like their "baby arc" is 6-11. Then Jackson will be focused on his transgendered patient and April is taking time off from work. Then it picks back up in 15 with Jackson and April coming to terms with everything and April getting better, so to speak, since she's working in 15. With Jackson's patient's husband telling him about his wife losing her sister and how she hasn't been the same, and nothing he does seems to help. And then Jackson convincing the patient to wait before having surgery. 15 could be a turning point for them in the right direction to healing from such a terrible loss.

Just another way it could possibly play out.

Hi Michele!

I really do feel they are going with type II and the baby will not make it. Which is not the end of the world, and could really turn out to be a wonderful storyline if played right. I was really sold that they were going to give them a special needs child, but if the baby has type II then game over. Also, I am now finally convinced he really is a boy. I think Jackson and April might try to get pregnant by the end of the season, and end up having a baby girl next season.

I think it will be diagnosed and "confirmed" as much as it can be as type 2. Maybe in the end they all get it wrong? But my fear was that it would be type 2. I don't know how it will go from there because they are telling us and from what I have read it is fatal in all cases. I think they want to make it look as hopeless as possible, but in the end I think the baby will live, not because they find a miracle cure, that would be highly unlikely for type 2 and extremely unbelievable.

I agree that all the signs point to the baby dying. The story even goes that way in the episode of ER I was talking about earlier in the week. The baby was born pre-maturely at 22 weeks, it had no chance of survival (remember this was around 2000, medical technology has substantially improved since then i'd imagine). They did nothing for the baby, they had a priest bless the baby and it died after 9 hours. And I'm thinking to myself this is how it could be for japril too but I just don't think I will. I think there's a bigger story here, we're just not putting the right pieces together.

Edsbootycall · 01-30-2015, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michele22 (View Post)

I think it will be diagnosed and "confirmed" as much as it can be as type 2. Maybe in the end they all get it wrong? But my fear was that it would be type 2. I don't know how it will go from there because they are telling us and from what I have read it is fatal in all cases. I think they want to make it look as hopeless as possible, but in the end I think the baby will live, not because they find a miracle cure, that would be highly unlikely for type 2 and extremely unbelievable.

I agree that all the signs point to the baby dying. The story even goes that way in the episode of ER I was talking about earlier in the week. The baby was born pre-maturely at 22 weeks, it had no chance of survival (remember this was around 2000, medical technology has substantially improved since then i'd imagine). They did nothing for the baby, they had a priest bless the baby and it died after 9 hours. And I'm thinking to myself this is how it could be for japril too but I just don't think I will. I think there's a bigger story here, we're just not putting the right pieces together.

See, I did think there was a bigger story here as well, but now I'm just not convinced there is. I mean.. this IS a pretty big story in and of itself. April and Jackson, excited expecting parents, being given this tragic prognosis and having to make this difficult decision and then coping with the loss is a big story. Trying to make it into something it's not so that it's not as heartbreaking doesn't take away from the fact that Type II Osteogenesis Imperfecta is fatal, unfortunately. So here's to hoping that the test results come back as Type III. And even then.. I mean it's just sad all around.

As far as Herman's tumor playing a part and Mama A regulating, they let it be known last night that the Chief of Staff knows about her tumor so apparently it's not a big deal. I don't think they will play it as Herman giving the wrong diagnosis/prognosis anymore.

justathought · 01-30-2015, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edsbootycall (View Post)

Well, if April is told that her baby will be fracturing his bones the remainder of the pregnancy, and there's no way to tell if this will cause him pain, and there's literally no hope that he will survive.. I could see her choosing to terminate for the sake of the baby. Although I am not sure terminate means the same to others as it does to me. Like I said previously, my friend had a similar situation (and is also pro-life) and was induced at 23 weeks instead a late term abortion. I mean she knew the baby would not survive long after birth, but she chose to give birth to her instead of having doctors go in and cut her up and suction her out, know what I mean? And there's no need for a pastor to bless an aborted baby, there's no need for a birth certificate or a death certificate for an aborted baby, but there is a need for a pastor to bless a baby that was induced at 24/25 weeks and only has a very small window before he passes, and there is a need for a birth certificate of that child.

Japrilfan, that is a very good point. In any case, I could see them deciding by season's end to try to have another baby. This baby would be planned. The pregnancy would be perfect. It would be a girl. Total opposite of their current pregnancy. Coincidentally, my friend that was induced at 23 weeks, tried about 3-4 months later for another baby. Got pregnant and had a healthy boy. She calls him her rainbow baby. The rainbow after the storm.

I get what you are saying, but this would still be a firestorm.
It is a way of winking at God that we got around calling it a late term abortion by just doing induced labor to allow natural death.
Especially if they start to highlight that is what their choice is should it be type II, to terminate.

It is one hell of a storyline and fits the title "all I could do was cry".

SD and JW were beyond amazing in the episode.

And the future sides do fit this playing out with April depressed, grief and church.

abisha · 01-30-2015, 09:07 AM

At this point, I think the pastor side is for Japril baby. I don't think April will be pregnant in episode 15 at all. The transformation hashtag from Jesse's pic is what I trying to fit in their SL. And the fact that Grey's never has done a predictible SL. I mean, never was "everything seems to be a sign the baby dies, then it dies". Although, there always is a first time for everything, isn't it? Still, I have a small hope till I see with my own eyes that there is really nothing to do and that babe dying

Edsbootycall · 01-30-2015, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justathought (View Post)

I get what you are saying, but this would still be a firestorm.
It is a way of winking at God that we got around calling it a late term abortion by just doing induced labor to allow natural death.
Especially if they start to highlight that is what their choice is should it be type II, to terminate.

It is one hell of a storyline and fits the title "all I could do was cry".

SD and JW were beyond amazing in the episode.

And the future sides do fit this playing out with April depressed, grief and church.

That's why I believe it's controversial, and a subject that Sarah wanted to approach. It happened to friends of her parents, and I assume they were pro-life Christians as well.

My friend is also a pro-life Christian.

I guess I just see it differently. I don't think inducing labor, giving labor to a fatal baby at 23-25 weeks is "getting around abortion" if they play it as saving this poor baby from any more pain. They say type II babies fracture the most in the third trimester and no one can be certain that the baby doesn't feel any pain from those fractures. Then he will have a terrible, awful delivery and could very well be crushed coming out the birth canal, and then live a painful few hours/days, and die painfully. I find it hard to believe that even the most extreme Christian pro-lifers out there could hate on someone who is OBVIOUSLY not choosing to do this for her own benefit or using it as a form of birth control but for the sake of her child, to save that child from any more pain. Someone who would give anything to fix this baby, to carry this baby to term, and that's just not possible in her situation.

And most women are given the option of induction or D&Es in the second trimester whenever the baby has died in utero or has a fatal condition. I've been reading up on it. I really think April would choose to give birth to her baby over having a D&E.
Just my opinion, though!

I really feel like this baby is a goner though.

Honestly, I originally thought the #transformation hashtag from Jesse was referring to "we got the set going up" like transforming the set.

justathought · 01-30-2015, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edsbootycall (View Post)

That's why I believe it's controversial, and a subject that Sarah wanted to approach. It happened to friends of her parents, and I assume they were pro-life Christians as well.

My friend is also a pro-life Christian.

I guess I just see it differently. I don't think inducing labor, giving labor to a fatal baby at 23-25 weeks is "getting around abortion" if they play it as saving this poor baby from any more pain. They say type II babies fracture the most in the third trimester and no one can be certain that the baby doesn't feel any pain from those fractures. Then he will have a terrible, awful delivery and could very well be crushed coming out the birth canal, and then live a painful few hours/days, and die painfully. I find it hard to believe that even the most extreme Christian pro-lifers out there could hate on someone who is OBVIOUSLY not choosing to do this for her own benefit or using it as a form of birth control but for the sake of her child, to save that child from any more pain. Someone who would give anything to fix this baby, to carry this baby to term, and that's just not possible in her situation.

And most women are given the option of induction or D&Es in the second trimester whenever the baby has died in utero or has a fatal condition. I've been reading up on it. I really think April would choose to give birth to her baby over having a D&E.
Just my opinion, though!

I really feel like this baby is a goner though.

Honestly, I originally thought the #transformation hashtag from Jesse was referring to "we got the set going up" like transforming the set.

The story plays out perfectly to show the other side of this not about abortion being a form of birth control.
Serious people, with firm beliefs that life is sacred, making a serious decision on how they want to make end of life, (and this is technically an end of life), decision for their child, should it be type II.
In the promo, Arizona is not doing an ultrasound she looks to be doing a needle biopsy.
Probably for a genetic screening to see the type of mutation which could be more definitive.

Edsbootycall · 01-30-2015, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justathought (View Post)

The story plays out perfectly to show the other side of this not about abortion being a form of birth control.
Serious people, with firm beliefs that life is sacred, making a serious decision on how they want to make end of life, (and this is technically an end of life), decision for their child, should it be type II.
In the promo, Arizona is not doing an ultrasound she looks to be doing a needle biopsy.
Probably for a genetic screening to see the type of mutation which could be more definitive.

Yeah I noticed that as well. I just really feel this is going to be a hopeless situation for them. They will make it as bad as it can get, so that even though April is so pro-life, even she will see that ending the pregnancy now is better for the baby than waiting, know what I mean? It goes along with Shonda's interview about this doctor with this faith, this religious knowledge, as well as the medicine knowledge, and having to struggle with that.

JaprilFan · 01-30-2015, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edsbootycall (View Post)

Well, if April is told that her baby will be fracturing his bones the remainder of the pregnancy, and there's no way to tell if this will cause him pain, and there's literally no hope that he will survive.. I could see her choosing to terminate for the sake of the baby. Although I am not sure terminate means the same to others as it does to me. Like I said previously, my friend had a similar situation (and is also pro-life) and was induced at 23 weeks instead a late term abortion. I mean she knew the baby would not survive long after birth, but she chose to give birth to her instead of having doctors go in and cut her up and suction her out, know what I mean? And there's no need for a pastor to bless an aborted baby, there's no need for a birth certificate or a death certificate for an aborted baby, but there is a need for a pastor to bless a baby that was induced at 24/25 weeks and only has a very small window before he passes, and there is a need for a birth certificate of that child.

Japrilfan, that is a very good point. In any case, I could see them deciding by season's end to try to have another baby. This baby would be planned. The pregnancy would be perfect. It would be a girl. Total opposite of their current pregnancy. Coincidentally, my friend that was induced at 23 weeks, tried about 3-4 months later for another baby. Got pregnant and had a healthy boy. She calls him her rainbow baby. The rainbow after the storm.

Thanks

You can all call me Julia if you want

the story of your friend is very touching. It would be nice, if the baby actually dies, to have a last part of season with some happy time for japril (btw i dont understand why all horrendous things happen to all other characters and jo and alex do nothing but kissing/having sex)
it would be lovely if she got pregnant towards the end of the season but given how long they have been dragging her pregnancy (i have lost count of the episodes) maybe it would a bit strange to have her pregnant again so soon.but who knows... i hope so though

Michele22 · 01-30-2015, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edsbootycall (View Post)

That's why I believe it's controversial, and a subject that Sarah wanted to approach. It happened to friends of her parents, and I assume they were pro-life Christians as well.

My friend is also a pro-life Christian.

I guess I just see it differently. I don't think inducing labor, giving labor to a fatal baby at 23-25 weeks is "getting around abortion" if they play it as saving this poor baby from any more pain. They say type II babies fracture the most in the third trimester and no one can be certain that the baby doesn't feel any pain from those fractures. Then he will have a terrible, awful delivery and could very well be crushed coming out the birth canal, and then live a painful few hours/days, and die painfully. I find it hard to believe that even the most extreme Christian pro-lifers out there could hate on someone who is OBVIOUSLY not choosing to do this for her own benefit or using it as a form of birth control but for the sake of her child, to save that child from any more pain. Someone who would give anything to fix this baby, to carry this baby to term, and that's just not possible in her situation.

And most women are given the option of induction or D&Es in the second trimester whenever the baby has died in utero or has a fatal condition. I've been reading up on it. I really think April would choose to give birth to her baby over having a D&E.
Just my opinion, though!

I really feel like this baby is a goner though.

Honestly, I originally thought the #transformation hashtag from Jesse was referring to "we got the set going up" like transforming the set.

I thought that maybe April would be the one to suggest termination based up on the comment she made in the first US but it looks like from the sneak peek that she is assuming that Jackson wants to terminate and she wants to carry the baby and give birth regardless if the baby survives or not. However, it could be a case of misleading making it seem that way and then it comes out that April and Jackson are on the same page whether that is termination or carrying the baby to term and giving birth (if at all possible)

justathought · 01-30-2015, 09:36 AM

I must say though, all the hyping that was done about this plot should have been done with a little more sensitivity if this is the route they are going.

Especially if this is the ultimate choice, to basically call a late term abortion inducing to prevent further pain for the baby.

They pawned off this story almost with a happy ending...and honestly even though it is a good story it is far from happy and exciting for the fans. Actors yes, fans who wanted them to have a baby not at all.

I am good with the drama...anyway they give it.
But I see the other POV and I can see why some fans are peeved, especially with all the stop and start hiatus, centrics etc.
They feel like they waited patiently for their happy ending and got a sad, sad story.

Unfortunately, welcome to Shondaland with an assist from SD. Ouch

abisha · 01-30-2015, 09:42 AM

I just know that episode 11 is just three days before my birthday, and I hope they give me a cool gift and surprise us all in a good way. At least, I can ask, right?

Michele22 · 01-30-2015, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justathought (View Post)

I must say though, all the hyping that was done about this plot should have been done with a little more sensitivity if this is the route they are going.

Especially if this is the ultimate choice, to basically call a late term abortion inducing to prevent further pain for the baby.

They pawned off this story almost with a happy ending...and honestly even though it is a good story it is far from happy and exciting for the fans. Actors yes, fans who wanted them to have a baby not at all.

I am good with the drama...anyway they give it.
But I see the other POV and I can see why some fans are peeved, especially with all the stop and start hiatus, centrics etc.
They feel like they waited patiently for their happy ending and got a sad, sad story.

Unfortunately, welcome to Shondaland with an assist from SD. Ouch

I agree. If the baby dies, I will be bitter. I feel like it would be completely insensitive. Why would Shonda even suggest that April and Jackson get pregnant so quickly then not give us any type of buildup in 11a meanwhile SD was pregnant in real, it was such a great coincidence and I feel like they missed such a good opportunity there. If the baby dies abruptly in episode 11, I will feel jipped for sure. I don't see any type of beautiful story. I see a remainder of the season with them miserable and trying to put the pieces together yet struggling. I wouldn't see them pregnant again by the end of the season or next season. I mean that would be even worse imo, because what makes us think they would do that pregnancy any justice? I feel like with japril it's one and done. April's big wedding hoopla was to Matthew and we are left to imagine a field of butterflies in lake tahoe. I don't see them letting April get pregnant again, so whether he lives or dies, I think this is it.


Fan Forum > Archived Television Shows > Grey's Anatomy > The Averys \|\| JacksonღAprilღBaby\|\| #197: Because "whatever you need, I'm here" - Jackson